They could have, let’s see…. Not gone on a 10 mins genocide campaign.
The response didn’t have to be deadly.
The government didn’t owe a “duty” to kill.
Middle East Violence (content may offend)
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They could have, let’s see…. Not gone on a 10 mins genocide campaign.
The response didn’t have to be deadly.
The government didn’t owe a “duty” to kill.
Actually this question works both ways. Name one strategy that Palestine people with the political agency that they had with Hamas in Gaza and PLO in Westbank, that would make Israelis honour the UN settlement stop their illegal occupation of territory or stop treating Gaza as a open air prison?
Escalation dominance as a deterrence strategy by its own nature is a slippery slope. Each time Palastenians have an insurgency movement, Israel would escalate even more....this is the meaning of this strategy...you may tend to view Oct 7th and what happened since in isolation, but it's just a continuation of what is going on - Israel is just as much to blame for Oct 7th, if your argument is that Palestinians are to blame for what has happened to them since Oct 7th. Any other opinion is just pure hypocrisy.
Just because Israel took this further this time with their retaliation, it doesn't mean Palestine people are going to hate Israelis less. It's just going to do the opposite. This will drag until the next insurgence - because at some point they will feel again their life can get hardly any worse and revolt again.
First para: the Palestinians themselves never accepted the UN settlement in 1948 and began the cycle of violence after being rejected by their Arab neighbours when a majority sought to leave Israel. Both sides need to accept and abide by the settlement in question.
Second para: my argument is not that "Palestinians are to blame for what has happened to them". My argument is that Hamas are to blame. Palestinian civilians have been killed because Hamas has used them as human shields.
Third para: I fear you may be right about this and I actually don't think violence ever provides a long-term solution. Sadly there are times when short-term needs are too acute to be ignored. This was one of them.
Second para: my argument is not that "Palestinians are to blame for what has happened to them". My argument is that Hamas are to blame. Palestinian civilians have been killed because Hamas has used them as human shields.
Third para: I fear you may be right about this and I actually don't think violence ever provides a long-term solution. Sadly there are times when short-term needs are too acute to be ignored. This was one of them.
Well OK then, I would have stopped the settlements, removed all apartheid laws, freed all the political prisoners and agreed a two state solution, and by doing so remove all of the reasons people sign up to join Hamas. Easier said than done, but would likely have seen about 11k less children dead and a hope of long term peace for everyone in the area.
But, you're going to say that was impossible...
When people talk about 'Human Shields' and holding people hostage.
View: https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1845437325750284789
Hey UN can you piss off, otherwise you are a Human Shield.
View: https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1845437325750284789
Hey UN can you piss off, otherwise you are a Human Shield.
The question was how to respond to the Oct.7 savagery. The above doesn't answer it.
More broadly, I happen to agree about the settlements and about a two-state solution. Legal reform and freeing prisoners would be things I'd be willing to look at after I'd had a chance to see how the first steps along this road were working out.
For me, it does answer how to respond to it. I would not have started a war that was obviously never going to achieve anything in the long run, other than a lot of deaths and suffering. I said it at the time, it's only going to create more generations of the next versions of Hamas, who will be worse again. It doesn't solve anything.
Legal reform would have to be near the top, but yeah on prisoners, but maybe something done for the 3.5k held without trial as a priority.
Up until Oct.7 the kind of considerations you set out above had - contrary to far too much bloviating in the media and elsewhere - held Israel back from going all out in their response to attacks. Oct.7 changed all that because sparing those who carried it out would have guaranteed rapid escalation. Far-sightedness is a good thing whenever possible. Sadly this time it wasn't.
I dont think Hamas has or had the capability to repeat that attack in any material fashion, they got lucky that the guard was down at that time, it wasn't going to happen again anytime soon either way. It was probably less risky on 8th than any time in the previous few years. I think it was more about anger and revenge, than preventing an imminent attack.
It might be if that had actually happened, but it hasn't. There's a difference between a starting-point and a turning-point.
What do you think has been happening in the last few decades? People have been trying and failing to make all that happen, which is why we are where we are.
Israel has torn down settlements, freed thousands of prisoners (of which Sinwar was one) and tried to make concessions. You act as though the onus is entirely on Israel. It's not. There need to be concessions on both sides. And whilst you've got agitators in the region who basically want Israel gone no matter the cost, you find yourself in a very problematic situation. The thing people sometimes forget is that this isn't all a response to Israeli aggression / repression / colonialism / whatever you want to call it.
I would also like to ultimately see some kind of peaceful two state solution where everyone can get on with their lives. Don't see it happening in my lifetime.
Israeli shelling of Gaza school kills at least 15
Gaza's Hamas-run Civil Defence Agency said the site was struck by a volley of artillery on Sunday.
www.bbc.co.uk
An Israeli attack on a school used to shelter displaced Palestinians has killed at least 15 people in central Gaza, officials say.
The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) said it was looking into the reports.
Earlier, five children were reportedly killed by a drone strike while playing on a street corner in northern Gaza.
I hadn't heard to the Dahiya Doctrine before, kinda makes sense that it's a strategy
en.m.wikipedia.org
Dahiya doctrine - Wikipedia
View: https://x.com/UNRWA/status/1845717936486363330
Burned alive children as they sheltered in makeshift tents.
I'll save sharing the pictures of human beings being burnt alive but they are available.
This isn't Netanyahu protecting his people, it's evil and barbaric.
Haaretz: Israeli Government Done With Ceasefire Talks, Seeks Annexation of Gaza - News From Antiwar.com
Israeli defense officials told Haaretz on Sunday that the Israeli government is not seeking to revive ceasefire talks with Hamas and is now pushing for the gradual annexation of large portions of the Gaza Strip. The report came about a week after Israel ordered Palestinians living in northern...
news.antiwar.com
These are the quiet bits out loud.
No interest in returning the hostages, but again if you've been listening to the officials for months that wasn't their aim or focus.
Always with the rhetorics.
It was certainly a turning point.
Bibi now have to make right on his failed promises that he would protect the Israeli population.
What you call "rhetoric" was an attempt to be kind and make the point gently that that "starting-point" stuff was nonsense. I and others had clearly traced the argument back to the start of all this in the mid-20th century and NOT based everything we said just on Oct.7. Those are the facts whether you like them or not.
You have, ok, apologies for just dipping in here quickly and being prejudiced. I could not really see that on the last couple of pages.
From my glance, regardless of prior context, it appears the October 7. event is still treated as offering wide legitimacy, not a carte blanche, for Israel to react disproportionately, as they have done according to many state officials and the un. Playing down the slow strangle which have taken place for ages, a reason while not a justification for such attacks on civilians.
But sadly, the killings then played into the hands of Bibi, who seem to answer to no one now.
From my glance, regardless of prior context, it appears the October 7. event is still treated as offering wide legitimacy, not a carte blanche, for Israel to react disproportionately, as they have done according to many state officials and the un. Playing down the slow strangle which have taken place for ages, a reason while not a justification for such attacks on civilians.
But sadly, the killings then played into the hands of Bibi, who seem to answer to no one now.
So that’s all sorted now? Time to get Netanyahu up for war crimes.
Linking an article was the thing to do. Not post a picture of a body. Shame on you.
View: https://x.com/newsfromoxfam/status/1846217606820180351
37 Aid agencies including Oxfam, Action Aid, Christian Aid say Northern Gaza is being erased.
Last week there was report about 12 days in Northern Gaza where Aid was not allowed in. Earlier in this massacre Israel claimed it was because of Hamas (and then the Yanks helped build that temporary pier for millions which was used by Israel to raid Gaza).
A few days ago America said, no Aid in Northern Gaza no more weapons for Israel (This is batshit anyways, let aid in and we'll give you weapons to indiscriminately kill more kids)
So then Israel lets in some aid.
If as claimed before Hamas was stopping the aid then how is the tap allowed to turn on after the American ultimatum, Unless Hamas want Israel to have weapons?
Purposeful starvation is a war crime. 12 days without any food getting in is pretty much starvation.
Yet here we still.
Daily watching people burned alive, and NGOs from across the world telling reporting Israel is purposefully killing people and decimating Gaza.
Yet somehow, people are still ok with this?
It's almost as if a population of people supporting a political entity that calls for the annihilation of their neighbors for 20 years, holds consequences for that population of people themselves.
Who'd have imagined.
