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Mascherano going then?

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Fact is, though, that no top teams play without at least one holding midfielder

So we'll need to buy one to replace Masher, because if O.U.R thinks Lucarse can do it, then he's a total divvy
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=41151.msg1143410#msg1143410 date=1280256040]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41151.msg1143405#msg1143405 date=1280255665]
Ah, you rarely disappoint Foxwit
[/quote]

I am pleased he is going
[/quote]

Jesus.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=41151.msg1143453#msg1143453 date=1280258597]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=41151.msg1143410#msg1143410 date=1280256040]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41151.msg1143405#msg1143405 date=1280255665]
Ah, you rarely disappoint Foxwit
[/quote]

I am pleased he is going
[/quote]

Jesus.
[/quote]Thats an astonishing line isnt it.
 
This will sound a bit random but does anyone ever listen to the Johnny Giles podcast? The way he describes the centre midfield role during his playing days was that every central midfielder was basically a holding player who would/should only very rarely get ahead of the ball. Sometimes I think it's the Gerrard/Lampard type central midfielder that's the innovation, not the holding player.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=41151.msg1143457#msg1143457 date=1280258893]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=41151.msg1143453#msg1143453 date=1280258597]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=41151.msg1143410#msg1143410 date=1280256040]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41151.msg1143405#msg1143405 date=1280255665]
Ah, you rarely disappoint Foxwit
[/quote]

I am pleased he is going
[/quote]

Jesus.
[/quote]Thats an astonishing line isnt it.
[/quote]

Ridonkilous.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=41151.msg1143446#msg1143446 date=1280258286]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41151.msg1143435#msg1143435 date=1280257775]
We'd have lost a sight more often yet if Masher hadn't been there plugging holes all over our midfield and defence. Whoever replaces him might well have more in his locker in terms of attacking play but almost certainly won't be his equal defensively, with the result that the whole side will have to track back more. We certainly will need to buy well. Very well.
[/quote]

I think that's counterfactual and full of assumptions Jules. It may well be that the presence of an exclusively defensive midfielder in the centre gives some of the other players an ill-founded feeling of security. It may also be that it gave rafa the false sense of security that he could play Lucas and get away with it all year. It may also be that other teams realized last year how to play around Mascherano and Rafa was too slow to respond to that (or couldn't). it could be that a more attacking centre midfielder instead of Mascherano would have allowed us to hold the ball more, move it from back to front more assuredly and not need to win it back so often.

I don't blame Mascherano for the fact that we were so shit last year, far from it, but claiming that he prevented worse performances is just speculation.
[/quote]

It wasn't worse performances he prevented, gene, it was worse results. What you term "assumptions" are cold, hard judgments, based on having watched Masher's tackling rescue us time and again in the second half of the season (he didn't start the season well) when too many others around him were playing like donkeys in wellies. Avvy's quite right that everyone is replaceable, but replacing Masher (a) will be no cakewalk and (b) will have repercussions throughout the team.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41151.msg1143470#msg1143470 date=1280259335]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=41151.msg1143446#msg1143446 date=1280258286]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41151.msg1143435#msg1143435 date=1280257775]
We'd have lost a sight more often yet if Masher hadn't been there plugging holes all over our midfield and defence. Whoever replaces him might well have more in his locker in terms of attacking play but almost certainly won't be his equal defensively, with the result that the whole side will have to track back more. We certainly will need to buy well. Very well.
[/quote]

I think that's counterfactual and full of assumptions Jules. It may well be that the presence of an exclusively defensive midfielder in the centre gives some of the other players an ill-founded feeling of security. It may also be that it gave rafa the false sense of security that he could play Lucas and get away with it all year. It may also be that other teams realized last year how to play around Mascherano and Rafa was too slow to respond to that (or couldn't). it could be that a more attacking centre midfielder instead of Mascherano would have allowed us to hold the ball more, move it from back to front more assuredly and not need to win it back so often.

I don't blame Mascherano for the fact that we were so shit last year, far from it, but claiming that he prevented worse performances is just speculation.
[/quote]

It wasn't worse performances he prevented, gene, it was worse results. What you term "assumptions" are cold, hard judgments, based on having watched Masher's tackling rescue us time and again in the second half of the season (he didn't start the season well) when too many others around him were playing like donkeys in wellies. Avvy's quite right that everyone is replaceable, but replacing Masher (a) will be no cakewalk and (b) will have repercussions throughout the team.
[/quote]

There's no doubt aspects of his play will be missed however if his replacement is comfortable recieving the ball from the defence, turning with it and playing it forward accurately then there will be less aimless hoofing from the defence, hopefully more ball retention and less screening needed.
 
I agree totally with a) and b) but still think speculation is speculation, even when based on cold hard assumptions. What if we'd sold Mascherano last season and kept Alonso? Would results have been better or worse?

Anyway I think we can agree to disagree on that point. The main thing is that we all agree (except Fox) that Mascherano is a significant loss to the squad and that we really need a top quality midfielder to replace him because there's no one at the club who can do it right now.
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=41151.msg1143389#msg1143389 date=1280254783]
goodbye masher

good riddance you classless cunt, you could have at least called Uncle Roy back and shown some respect

Overrated I have always said it

Nobody with that little impact from midfield on the creative side of the game should be worth more than £10-15 million tops

£10 million will do for a player just as good as him at "breaking up the play", it is a massively overrated position, Darren Fletcher FFS

£25 million is good business, thank you now fuck off


[/quote]

I'm *this* close to changing my username to ForceFive.
 
I'd make a bid for this lad aswell..


Now Roy Hodgson has confirmed Javier Mascherano wants to leave Liverpool, the focus turns to his replacement at Anfield.

Several reports over the last couple of weeks have linked Standard Liege's Steven Defour, 22, with the Reds. Hodgson is said to have a keen interest in the young Belgian ace and it is easy to see why - Defour seems like a perfect replacement for Mascherano. A pacy and versatile midfielder with great vision and passing rate, he would fit straight into the gap.

Defour has attracted big club interest before. Ajax, looking for a replacement for Wesley Sneijder, had a bid turned down in the 2007-08 season. After the 2009-10 season, bigger clubs showed an interest. All of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester United were reported to have had a look at the Standard captain, but nothing materialised. Still, when Defour was injured in a Europa League game against Panathinaikos in January, Sir Alex Ferguson was rumoured to have sent him a personal letter of encouragement.

However, all the talk now is about Defour going to Liverpool, especially with Manchester United seemingly having taken a fancy for German Wunderkind Mesut Ozil. And if it happens, it may prove to be a great move for all concerned. Defour cannot go much further in Belgium, having won two league titles with Standard (2008 and 2009) and the country's highest individual honour, the Golden Boot, in 2008. He has captained Standard since he was only 19 and at 22 seems destined to burst out of Belgium and onto the big scene. Liverpool would be a massive new challenge. Liverpool are still one of the biggest clubs in the history of the game and a dream move for any young player. And Defour can only expect to learn and get better, playing in one of the biggest leagues in Europe, with the likes of Steven Gerrard and most likely Fernando Torres and under a manager who is known for getting the best out of his players.

For Liverpool, Defour could be the man to help them achieve their turnaround and break back into Europe's elite. He has proved at Standard that he can compete at the highest level, with more than decent performances against top opposition in the Champions and Europa Leagues. (It was in one of those ties, in which Liverpool only beat Standard after penalties, that Defour first attracted attention .) The captain of a championship-winning side since the age of 19, he has also shown an ability to cope with pressure that belies his 22 years.

Any position in midfield can bring out the best in him: holding, attacking, centre or either flank. His vision and passing rate would be a boost for the Reds and, as an added bonus, he has played for some time with Liverpool's new striker, Milan Jovanovic, and has built a great playing partnership with him. The fact that he is "only" Belgian and "only" plays in Belgium makes for a relatively low transfer fee. £15 million is currently rumoured. The same calibre player would easily command double that if he were Italian, Spanish or English. Defour will presumably also be less demanding than Mascherano in terms of wages, given the financial chasm between the Belgian Pro-League and the Premier League. Defour would be a steal.

For Standard, then, the benefits would be largely financial. Having had to let Jovanovic go on a free, they will regret the transfer money they could have received for a player who scored at this summer’s World Cup. With their other main striker, Dieu-Merci Mbokani, also keen on a move out of the country and Belgium left-back Sebastien Pocognoli attracting interest from Spanish giants Sevilla, Standard could put any extra money from a Defour transfer to good use rebuilding their ravaged squad. A fee of £15 million is an enormous amount of money to Standard, which will enable them to outbid nearly any Belgian club in their quest for new players.
 
That Champs League qualifier we played against Liege some a couple of years back left me wanting Feillani, not Defour.

Can't we pinch him off of Gollum?
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=41151.msg1143536#msg1143536 date=1280262917]
They seem to have gone into a decline since Fellaini left.
[/quote]

Not even Jovanovic could save them.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41151.msg1143528#msg1143528 date=1280262584]
Defour or Lucas? Tricky one
[/quote]

Ha -

voting stats:

Rawk: 89% Lucas, 11% Defour (This 11% is due to the 6CM members who post there).
SCM: 1% Lucas, 99% Defour
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=41151.msg1143538#msg1143538 date=1280263033]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=41151.msg1143536#msg1143536 date=1280262917]
They seem to have gone into a decline since Fellaini left.
[/quote]

Not even Jovanovic could save them.
[/quote]

Never heard of him. What age is he?
 
What the fuck is a cakewalk?

Defour has received letters from Ferguson wishing him well on his recovery from a serious knee injury. United are his preferred option and United do need a Cm so I think he will still end up there.
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=41151.msg1143546#msg1143546 date=1280263209]
He's a young kid with male pattern baldness
[/quote]

That's the worst kind!
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=41151.msg1143539#msg1143539 date=1280263081]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41151.msg1143528#msg1143528 date=1280262584]
Defour or Lucas? Tricky one
[/quote]

Ha -

voting stats:

Rawk: 89% Lucas, 11% Defour (This 11% is due to the 6CM members who post there).
SCM: 1% Lucas, 99% Defour
[/quote]

who's the 1%? ryan?
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=41151.msg1143555#msg1143555 date=1280263488]
What the fuck is a cakewalk?

Defour has received letters from Ferguson wishing him well on his recovery from a serious knee injury. United are his preferred option and United do need a Cm so I think he will still end up there.


[/quote]

All the more reason to try and snatch him from under the old sod's red nose.

A cakewalk incidentally was a kind of dance in early American negro culture, developed from contests of graceful walking which used to have cakes as prizes.

Only on 6CM could a thread go off at a tangent like that. ;D
 
I would love too see mashers stats of goals & assists per game compared to similar players in other top clubs. He is a good solid midfielder not a £25 million asset.

How are you lot avoiding the shit attitude where he would not even acknowledge his new bosses phone calls
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=41151.msg1143608#msg1143608 date=1280265519]
I would love too see mashers stats of goals & assists per game compared to similar players in other top clubs. He is a good solid midfielder not a £25 million asset.

How are you lot avoiding the shit attitude where he would not even acknowledge his new bosses phone calls


[/quote]

mash is an out and out holding midfielder, why on earth would you expect a return of goals and assists?
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=41151.msg1143608#msg1143608 date=1280265519]
I would love too see mashers stats of goals & assists per game compared to similar players in other top clubs. He is a good solid midfielder not a £25 million asset.

How are you lot avoiding the shit attitude where he would not even acknowledge his new bosses phone calls


[/quote]Avoiding what?
He was on holiday and Roy said 'I left a message and told him he didnt have to phone me back'
so.......?
 
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