Lucas returns from injury

[mark1975]

There was life without Suarez, Sturridge, Gerrard etc. That doesn't meam they didn't slot straight back in when they were back.

We should play the best team possible. That means, once fully fit, Lucas will be starting some if not all games, whether people like it or not.

Isn't that what I said? I said he'll unquestionably play, but please dont put Lucas in the same bracket as Gerrard, Suarez and Sturridge, it sounds a bit dim, especially when you clearly haven't read the post correctly and just made an assumption. The truth about his contribution and about how much we'll need him is about halfway between you and Wyan, and Larry and Woland. Divisive as ever.

 

[mark1975]

We need a DM and hes the only one we've got, we may aswell be championing a horse in a one horse race. "He'll start, whether people like it or not". Do me a favour.

 

[SummerOnions]

He's gonna have a man of the match performance against Mata anyway, no sweat

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Isn't that what I said? I said he'll unquestionably play, but please dont put Lucas in the same bracket as Gerrard, Suarez and Sturridge, it sounds a bit dim, especially when you clearly haven't read the post correctly and just made an assumption. The truth about his contribution and about how much we'll need him is about halfway between you and Wyan, and Larry and Woland. Divisive as ever.

I was agreeing with you.

 

[TheRedCrusade]

isnt it clear, Lucas against top sides when the tactics is to keep the ball and Gerrard against the lower sides/counter attacking football....at least that is how I see as of now. Not that they are not suitable for other systems, just a way to use them to their max effect on the game

 

[Dreambeliever]

Ok don't drop Gerrard, drop Allen or Henderson. Lucas has to be on the pitch.

Still think we should drop one Modo for Lucas?

 

[Modo]

Still think we should drop one Modo for Lucas?

Didn't Lucas get on the pitch?

 

[Dreambeliever]

Didn't Lucas get on the pitch?

Yep but your point was we should drop someone to get him back in the starting line up.

Do you still think that should be the case?

With the alternate ways we can set up now I just doing see him giving us anything Henderson and Allen can't barring injury suspension or a severe loss of form. Allen has been great since he got his chance and Hendo has been my CM of the year for us. Gerrard is getting better and better in his 'new' role and while he may not get his positioning right all the time he has enough in his locker to cope with every remaining teams AM maybe aside from Citys and Chelseas. Maybe.

I said we could win our last 10 without him and you didn't we could.

Just wondering if this performance has changed your mind?

 

[Modo]

This was imo Gerrards best game in that DM position. Why?
Because he didn't wander off like usually does.
I also think Lucas did well when he came on.

 

[DHSC]

Good thing about Lucas being back is that he provides cover and also competition to those playing. Everyone will be on their toes.

 

[Halmeister]

And gives the opposition a chance to score a free kick/penalty.

 

[Modo]

Yep but your point was we should drop someone to get him back in the starting line up.

Do you still think that should be the case?

With the alternate ways we can set up now I just doing see him giving us anything Henderson and Allen can't barring injury suspension or a severe loss of form. Allen has been great since he got his chance and Hendo has been my CM of the year for us. Gerrard is getting better and better in his 'new' role and while he may not get his positioning right all the time he has enough in his locker to cope with every remaining teams AM maybe aside from Citys and Chelseas. Maybe.

I said we could win our last 10 without him and you didn't we could.

Just wondering if this performance has changed your mind?

That performance hasn't changed my mind at all. Just like the Arsenal and Everton games didn't. Because I just don't disregard games like Southampton and Swansea when we get dominated in midfield.

It's about consistency for me. You see a good result and think "hey, we don't need Lucas".
How about the Villa game when Lucas came on and we were two goals down and he left the pitch with the score being 2-2?

I could mind as well say that if Lucas didn't get injured in that game we'd score a winner.

Last but not least, do you remember the game when we beat Man U 4-1 at Old Trafford? Guess who started that game?

Also I don't recall saying that we couldn't win our remaining games without Lucas.

 

[Hansern]

Gerrard said it himself that with Allen and Henderson doing all the running its easier for him to stay in position.
The midfield and defence look very good and balanced these days. Lucas should be a sub.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

It's about consistency for me. You see a good result and think "hey, we don't need Lucas".

How about the Villa game when Lucas came on and we were two goals down and he left the pitch with the score being 2-2?

19 out of 21 points since Lucas's injury (including his return yesterday).

I think that's consistency. When was the last time we did that when he played in 7 games in a row?

I think most fans who aren't in bed with the idea that Lucas has to start every game (or is a world class DM) understand he's an good/important squad player, but that he has an uphill battle ahead of him to replace the midfielders who've pushed us to within 4 points of the league lead. Great 'problem' to have though for the gaffa.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

It's a good thing that apart from the treatment he affords the selected superstar players (Gerrard, Suarez, Sturridge), Rodgers has mainly picked teams based on who delivers when given the chance. Under this system, you don't want to get injured or lose form, because if the guy filling in for you does well, you're not going to walk into the team and take the job back. You'll have to bide your time and wait for the opportunity to open up, either through injury or through someone else not performing.

As mentioned, he does make exceptions for some guys (e.g. Gerrard was pretty poor at the earlier part of the season) but in most cases, I think he's been pretty fair and ruthless in sticking to this. Lucas will now have to wait for his chance again.

 

[rurikbird]

I think at this point Lucas is a defensive sub. I was actually tempted to swap Gerrard for Lucas in the middle of the 2nd half, when United put us under a bit of pressure at 2:0. But Rodgers was proven correct for sticking with Gerrard – United's pressure came to nothing and when they tried to take a breather we jumped on them and dominated until the end. In the end it was a useful test of the defensive strength of our current midfield 3 and with 2-goal cushion Rodgers could afford a little risk. It paid off.

There will be games, particularly in the Champions League (I can say that now, right?), when Lucas still has an important role. But our "default" midfield, I think, is what we have now. The only real position of contention is between Allen and Coutinho. Gerrard and Hendo are automatic.

 

[Ryan]

19 out of 21 points since Lucas's injury (including his return yesterday).

I think that's consistency. When was the last time we did that when he played in 7 games in a row?

I'm not suggesting we should drop Gerrard, but it's worth pointing out we were top of the league at Xmas, and Lucas had started every game in DM prior to that.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I'm not suggesting we should drop Gerrard, but it's worth pointing out we were top of the league at Xmas, and Lucas had started every game in DM prior to that.

Good point sir - but I don't think that negates my point (that right now, he has to fight for his chance to start again and just be ready in case of injury/suspension). I'm not saying he won't play - 'best 11' n' shit. As I said, it's a wonderful 'problem' to have ... For such a small 'squad' - at least we're deep with midfielders currently! 😉

 

[Hansern]

Wheter or not he started before Christmas is irrelevant. He doesnt deserve to start now on the current form of our midfield players. If he impresses when given game time its a different matter.
We've got 5 wins on the trot and are unbeaten in 2014. Fuck trying to shoehorn Lucas into the side just because he used to play dm 3 months ago.

 

[Mystic]

Don't mess with a winning formula, it's great that Lucas is back, but until someones form drops, he should stay on the bench and give us options during games.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Genuine question, how often have we sent out the same XI two games in a row this season?

I would imagine it's no more than a handful of times, but I would well be way off? I haven't time to check now, but will do later on if nobody else knows.

 

[Glen C]

Rodgers has already said that gerrard will be our DM from now on, so lucas is competing against allen and coutinho for a place in the team as we know that 9 times out of 10 gerrard and hendo will be in the starting 11. So lucas has to adapt to playing further forward, but can he do the role better than allen? Personally i dont think so as allen offers more and is more mobile than lucas. So i can see lucas spending a lot of time on the bench.

 

[refugee]

Genuine question, how often have we sent out the same XI two games in a row this season?

I would imagine it's no more than a handful of times, but I would well be way off? I haven't time to check now, but will do later on if nobody else knows.

Only Rafa rotates

 

[Hansern]

Rotate is one thing, but you keep the core of the team. If fit Gerrard will start every match thats left. Hendo is next on the list. Allen and Coutinho will probably rotate, or Sterling and Coutinho.

Studge and Suarez will play. Agger and Sakho might rotate if Rodgers wants to give Sakho some game time. The rest is pretty much nailed on as starters bar suspension or injuries.
I can see us playing the same eleven against Cardiff, and then maybe changing 2 players for the Sunderland game.

 

[kingjulian]

I don't see any situation is where picking Lucas over Gerrard is a better option....I'm quite baffled that there are people who think otherwise

 

[rurikbird]

I don't see any situation is where picking Lucas over Gerrard is a better option....I'm quite baffled that there are people who think otherwise

It could depend on form and physical fitness, on need to rest and rotate. According to this analysis, basically our attack is stronger with Gerrard at DM and our defense with Lucas, but when they play together we get less of the benefits and more of the problems. Ultimately it's all about the overall balance of the team. There could be situations when you want more defensive solidity at the expense of some creativity – although Rodgers chooses offense most of the time, which is what I like to see. But don't forget that one of our best performances of the season – Spurs away – was with Lucas playing in place of Gerrard and I do remember some threads popping up after the game with titles like "Do we need him?" Now suddenly any consideration of resting Gerrard is blasphemy*.

This kind of choice is also shaping up between Allen and Coutinho – one will give you more tackles, better pressing and covering the ground and more "safe" possession, while the other will definitely give you more goals and assists. With Allen preferred to Coutihno and Gerrard to Lucas at DM the balance is about right. But if Coutihno plays in midfield instead of Allen and your DM is Gerrard, it's more risky – then you either get a blistering destruction of the opposition (as in the Arsenal home game) or, when Coutihno isn't "in the mood" a limp performance like the one home against Aston Villa. Once again, it's all about the overall balance and depending on injuries, form and opponent manager might make different personnel selections in order to find the most advantageous balance.

_________
* I want to point out that I'm only talking about next season in this thread. In the remainder of this season, as long as we have a shot at the title, Gerrard should (and will) start every remaining game if fit.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Genuine question, how often have we sent out the same XI two games in a row this season?

I would imagine it's no more than a handful of times, but I would well be way off? I haven't time to check now, but will do later on if nobody else knows.

Ok, looked at starting team sheets for league matches. We've kept the same XI four times this season.

One run of four games following the Everton game: West Brom, Arsenal, Fulham (two wins and two draws)

And also the Spurs and Cardiff games, lost the first, won the second.

I can't quite remember, but I reckon that we changed formation a few times in the run of four games too. *feel free to point out any I missed, I ran through them quickly

We're proving every game that this whole thing of not changing a winning team is rubbish. It can be true in some cases, but it's not for us this season.

I'm not saying bring back Lucas at all cost, but if the game requires it, and it will keep the squad fresh, then he should definitely play. Once fit, he'll have a big role to play for us, whether it's shifting Gerrard around, dropping Allen, or whatever, he's one of our top players so he'll get a lot of game time in the next two months.

 

[Hansern]

Ok, looked at starting team sheets for league matches. We've kept the same XI four times this season.

One run of four games following the Everton game: West Brom, Arsenal, Fulham (two wins and two draws)

And also the Spurs and Cardiff games, lost the first, won the second.

I can't quite remember, but I reckon that we changed formation a few times in the run of four games too. *feel free to point out any I missed, I ran through them quickly

We're proving every game that this whole thing of not changing a winning team is rubbish. It can be true in some cases, but it's not for us this season.

I'm not saying bring back Lucas at all cost, but if the game requires it, and it will keep the squad fresh, then he should definitely play. Once fit, he'll have a big role to play for us, whether it's shifting Gerrard around, dropping Allen, or whatever, he's one of our top players so he'll get a lot of game time in the next two months.

We won both the Spurs and Cardiff games though.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

We won both the Spurs and Cardiff games though.

You're right, marked that down wrong, I probably have others wrong too, but the point is, we've been doing pretty well all season, and we haven't had a consistent side all season. This, don't change a winning team thing, is bollocks.

We play the team that's most likely to win us the title in every game, which means there will be rotation, tactical changes, and formation changes, and that isn't going to stop for the next 9 games.

 

[mark1975]

This was imo Gerrards best game in that DM position. Why?
Because he didn't wander off like usually does.
I also think Lucas did well when he came on.

You make it sound like he's had one good game there. This is all getting a bit agenda-ish really, someone posted positive stuff about Henderson in the thread with the same name, and your first response is stats about Allen. We get it, you like Lucas and Allen. They've all contributed, some more than others, there's also been times when regardless of who's played, we've missed that something extra, so there's room for improvement from all of them and there's no names set in stone about who's the better option, it's horses for courses. It's great that we have so many options, but there's no point in this constant "yeah but when Lucas/Allen plays they run a mile more than everyone else". Really, what's the point? We've done well with different combinations, the only important stat really is where we are as a result, whatever the lineup, it's clear that they're ALL doing more right than wrong.