"I told you how good they are."

[Farkmaster]

I'm about to complain about two wins here, and one of them I heralded as madrid-esque recently, but eventually this site will just be one person arguing with themself, so I'll preempt that eventuality.

Im willing to accept the best bad day at the office ever. it'd not just how uncompetitive we were against psg; what sticks in my craw a little is how slot talks about the performances and the approach.

Slot seemed awed a little by both city and even more so so PSG. He spoke highly of both teams in terms of their ability to keep possession, and rather accepted we just wouldn't have it. But in these performances we werent edged in possession, or beaten in possession, the statistics are outliers in terms of what we've done for many years. "You'll have to suffer" in stretches of a game, sure. This game was not that. We suffered for 75 or so. We were like a journeyman boxer covering up and taking them to to the ribs.

We offered very little threat and hoofed a lot. I haven't seen that happen for such large stretches for many years, and now it's two games, not an aberration. With city I could accept it because without Haaland and with their defensive frailties, it seemed valid to me. This game though? I don't like this becoming a habit, and I don't like the idea of us not being competitive or going in with the attitude that we don't need a chunk of the ball. Now that we bring a lead to anfield, I don't want that to infect the second leg, either.

This did harken back to a Benítez/houllier like appearance, and while I accept that's totally valid football, I don't think we need to do it to that extent. They didn't do it to this extent either! Maybe just for the last horrible 30 or so. Also, in some of that era we were playing a pretty weak hand, especially in attack. Now, we have lots of attacking options, and we need to carry a threat to keep teams more honest.

"The only way is to defend as we did."

"I told you how good they are." (To our players at halftime)

I really don't like this sentiment. I've been conditioned not to by years of klopp. Maybe that's not right.

Look, I'm glad slot doesn't think we are the best team in the world. We arent. I'm glad he's pragmatic. We are and must be better than that though. Maybe that is what he is saying in private. Do that again and we will lose. I don't want this sort of a thing to be within the envelope of normal for a Liverpool manager. I think we are better than this, and i think if it becomes a habit it hampers us becoming better. Slot has always been punching up, but we don't need to make it our habit, especially if we barely are punching.

 

[localny]

Agree. And yes the hoofing is alarming. Spotted in a few weeks back. Cost us the Everton game and it’s a chicken that comes home to roost.

 

[Frogfish]

Yeah sorry not really in agreement with most of that.

1. I have no problem with a manager giving respect or 'bigging up' the other team - especially when they are as good as PSG obviously are. They paid us the same respect pre-game. That said we don't know what was said in the changing room and I bet it wasn't the same! There's what said in public and what's said in private.

2. I think it was Momo but maybe Fabio that gave a good account of the match phases. It wasn't all one way early on (first 20 mins) or late on (last 20 mins) though in between we got battered. It's been noted, both on here and by Slot, that we restricted them to long range shots for most of the match. I thought our defence, and not just Ali, was exceptional.
It's always surprising that if a smaller team defends for their lives and somehow ekes out a win then people claim they deserved it. Whereas if we (for example) do that then we robbed them.

3. Some players were miles off form (Salah was horrendous he's done his Golden Balls target no service at all with that showing, Jota too for me, Gravy was below par and Diaz created nothing, lucky the back 5 played pretty damn good for most of the game).

4. I think you're overreacting somewhat. That isn't what we've seen for 90% of the season and as you said we're not the best team in the world so some pragmatism is in order.

5. I'll be furious if we go Gung Ho at Anfield. We just need more of what Slot demands, control, and we can only get that by a number of players stepping up to their normal levels after an horrendous showing in Paris.

6. I do think we should have started with 442. We know where they are strongest and that would have given us the other player in midfield we needed.

 

[StevieM]

Yeah, I’m with Froggie - I feel like Slot’s just that little bit more pragmatic and flexible than most managers and more likely to employ different tactics in specific games if we think it’ll get us the desired result.

I don’t kind a bit of “Benitez-style” every now and then - sometimes you just have to grind out a result.

 

[doctor_mac]

I'm about to complain about two wins here, and one of them I heralded as madrid-esque recently, but eventually this site will just be one person arguing with themself, so I'll preempt that eventuality.

Im willing to accept the best bad day at the office ever. it'd not just how uncompetitive we were against psg; what sticks in my craw a little is how slot talks about the performances and the approach.

Slot seemed awed a little by both city and even more so so PSG. He spoke highly of both teams in terms of their ability to keep possession, and rather accepted we just wouldn't have it. But in these performances we werent edged in possession, or beaten in possession, the statistics are outliers in terms of what we've done for many years. "You'll have to suffer" in stretches of a game, sure. This game was not that. We suffered for 75 or so. We were like a journeyman boxer covering up and taking them to to the ribs.

We offered very little threat and hoofed a lot. I haven't seen that happen for such large stretches for many years, and now it's two games, not an aberration. With city I could accept it because without Haaland and with their defensive frailties, it seemed valid to me. This game though? I don't like this becoming a habit, and I don't like the idea of us not being competitive or going in with the attitude that we don't need a chunk of the ball. Now that we bring a lead to anfield, I don't want that to infect the second leg, either.

This did harken back to a Benítez/houllier like appearance, and while I accept that's totally valid football, I don't think we need to do it to that extent. They didn't do it to this extent either! Maybe just for the last horrible 30 or so. Also, in some of that era we were playing a pretty weak hand, especially in attack. Now, we have lots of attacking options, and we need to carry a threat to keep teams more honest.

"The only way is to defend as we did."

"I told you how good they are." (To our players at halftime)

I really don't like this sentiment. I've been conditioned not to by years of klopp. Maybe that's not right.

Look, I'm glad slot doesn't think we are the best team in the world. We arent. I'm glad he's pragmatic. We are and must be better than that though. Maybe that is what he is saying in private. Do that again and we will lose. I don't want this sort of a thing to be within the envelope of normal for a Liverpool manager. I think we are better than this, and i think if it becomes a habit it hampers us becoming better. Slot has always been punching up, but we don't need to make it our habit, especially if we barely are punching.

Yeah, I didn't like that attitude either. In his defence, he also pointed out that we cocked up some good situations, which would have, even if we'd got a shot away, have demonstrated we had a means of combatting them, that we had a threat in the game. A lot of that hoofing was a deliberate ploy to take advantage of their man to man style, and if Salah and Diaz had made the ball stick a little bit and won a portion of their duels (like even a quarter of the time), it would have given them something to think about. As it was, Salah, Diaz, and Slobby looked like they had never seen a football before for swathes of the game, only Jota managed to give us a sliver of hold-up ball, though he too often promptly coughed the ball up, or was out-muscled.

Slot needs to find a means to change the pattern in games like this when that strategy isn't working. In this game we did grow into the game with the subs, Jones looked like he recognised this spherical air bag as something he could work with and Nunez had the physicality to make hay from those punts up field.

Nonetheless, Slot is a lucky boy to have got out of here with something and he needs to realise this isn't a viable strategy, as more times than not we're losing this game.

 

[keniget]

"I told you how good they are." (To our players at halftime)

Is that really what he said to them? Ugh.

A lot of that hoofing was a deliberate ploy to take advantage of their man to man style

We started by playing some nice, deliberate, balls that bypassed their midfield and lead to some good situations but it did descend into aimless and often panicked hoofing. I don't think that was the intention at all.

 

[doctor_mac]

Is that really what he said to them? Ugh.



We started by playing some nice, deliberate, balls that bypassed their midfield and lead to some good situations but it did descend into aimless and often panicked hoofing. I don't think that was the intention at all.

Yes, it did end up being aimless, but that's the danger when the coach encourages the long ball as a strategy if you're under the pump. Instead of an out ball it just becomes desperate. I'll also say the complete lack of Salah and Diaz to make something of literally any of these balls made it look more aimless and desperate.

 

[Brizzle]

Agreed @Farkmaster that I don't like how it feels that we have just tried to shut up shop in two big away games recently. It will be interesting to see if this is an away game strategy or whether we'll try it at home too.

 

[keniget]

Yes, it did end up being aimless, but that's the danger when the coach encourages the long ball as a strategy if you're under the pump. Instead of an out ball it just becomes desperate.

True but the players are experienced enough and have been around long enough to put together some passes... you saw at the end when PSG had tired and we got that goal that the confidence came back. I said in the match thread that it felt like a bit of a cowardly performance. How much of that is attributable to the players vs Slot, couldn't say.

That being said... PSG in their current form are one of the worst match ups for us. We are at our weakest defensively out on the flanks and they have 3 or 4 players that are fast as fuck and skillfull. The result was that the midfield were busting a lung running here there and everywhere to try and help out and the shape of the team just went out the window. In possession there was very few passing options and the forwards didn't do much to help.

We really need to sort this out in the summer.

 

[Squiggles]

It’s hard to tell if this is the start of a trend or just Slot being adaptable. What’s clear is that the players were so poor on the ball that it’s difficult to analyse any initial tactical setups because little works when players are being so careless. I did feel we were worryingly passive and ineffective without the ball, especially considering we’d had a week’s rest. I was desperate for Milner to crunch a few of them and break up their rhythm. When we're not controlling the game with the ball, Grav doesn't have it in him to physically wrestle it back or leave his mark on the game in the same way.

We had no outlet to relieve the pressure—perhaps that role was meant for Salah, but it wasn’t working, and Jota couldn’t compete against their centre-backs. I thought Nunez should have come on at half-time so we could play more directly, which ultimately led to the goal. I’d have brought on Jones as well, since he presses well, was fresh, and, to his credit, keeps the ball well. Endo would have been a good option too, just to add some bite to our play. I was frustrated those changes weren’t made sooner, but they did come, and nothing needs to be said about the Elliott sub.

There’s a part of me that wonders if Slot might be a bit overawed by the competition, which wouldn’t be a huge surprise given his experience is entirely in the Netherlands. I hope that’s not the case. I’m mildly concerned we might not have the legs to be truly competitive in the Champions League. We started to fade around this stage last year, so I’m bracing myself for the League Cup and Premier League being our realistic targets, with any Champions League progress a bonus. That said, we should have enough to see off PSG, get past Villa, and reach the semi-finals. Whether we’ll have enough in the tank to go any further remains questionable. If we stick in a more ambitious and controlling performance at Anfield then I'll be more confident, but PSG will pick us apart if we don't improve five fold on that. If PSG sneak past us then they're my new favourites for the competition. I knew that had improved, but yeah, wow. I haven't seen a side look so dangerous in a long time.

 

[binomial]

You talk a lot about this “becoming a habit”, yet in 44 games Arne has walked the team out the tunnel for….you come up with 2 games in quick succession? Least of all City and PSG away? Teams we know have better technical players than us? There are improvements to be made, sure….our play hasn’t been the most thrilling to watch but the results can’t be ignored, the whole point of a head coach is to find different ways to pull out a result when things aren’t going our way and adapt tactically….seems a bit fucking knee jerky to me like.

 

[Fabio]

I'm fine with slot saying that to the players at half time. Honestly if slot felt he had to say that then there's an issue with the mentality of some players of the squad (and based on performance, i wouldn't disagree with that). 2nd half we came out looking better and managed to find some pockets.

i'm fine with us playing that way. Obviously they were peppering the goal, but all from range, and required incredible finishing to score. Thankfully Ali was up to the task. The issue however was that these outballs relied on a professional performance from the front 3. They were all fucking shite.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Yeh I think that - mostly - we were quite comfortable without the ball. Good defensive display again, and there weren't any real chances where PSG were carving us open. Just speculative shots from distance. I thought from that aspect we really did control the game. What really frustrated me during the game was the times that we were in possesion and squandered it. Every. Single. Time. The aimless punts to Salah or no-one at all were so unlike us that it had me screaming at the telly. Gravenberch passing to the linesmen. Szoboszlai waiting for passes to come all the way to his feet rather than moving towards the ball (and having a PSG player nip in front of him). Salah with is underhit or mistimed passing. Jota getting bullied off the ball. All of those things were not part of Slot's plan - we know this team can execute those things to perfection on any given day. No way that happens twice. After that performance, I honestly think that PSG will come to Anfield thinking they can dominate us again and will have another thing coming.

 

[tombrown]

There were a number of times when a relatively simple pass woudl have put one of the forwards through behind their defence, but time & again it was mas misplaced/intercepted. If we only improve on that aspect next week we will be in a far stronger position

 

[ctlovesred]

We played like garbage. They played quite well.

We won. Gotta be a huge dent in their confidence to get a result at Anfield.

 

[rubans]

Was a mix of things but Gravvy was especially wasteful in the middle when he won the ball with getting the right pass.
Mo, got it wrong every time and Diaz was horrible on the other side and even worse when he was trying to help the defense.
We got away with it for now but hopefully a chance to learn from it for next leg.
It's hard to say it's a pattern as we were brilliant against Newcastle. It's long and old season, PSG play in a farmers leaugue while we are tested every game and our last 10 games have been some of the toughest so far especially being away again.

 

[mom]

People keep saying we were lucky. Lucky how?
I didn’t see them hitting the post eight times. Or the ball ricocheting off unaware defenders over the bar from otherwise goal bound shots.
We have a world class goalkeeper who did what a world class goalkeeper does. Kept them out. No luck in that. Just the skill of the best goalie in the world.

 

[mark1975]

I'd like to think we would play with more confidence at home against them, it can't be that every time we face a decent team we can solely rely on 11 men behind the ball, hoping we hit them at some point, because it will become predictable and eventually we will get a hiding off someone. If we get to the final of the CL, we can't go in against a Madrid or whoever and expect to get away with doing the same, Ancelotti (for example) would easily overcome it.

People hailed the City game as a masterclass and in some respects it was, despite their current plight, but we did what we thought we had to do to get a result against a side we would normally have given a game to. Fair do's, but we've seen with Rafa and Houllier that there's not much longevity in playing that way, sometimes you do what you have to to win, I get that and I get that we've all complained about not having a plan B, but I don't want us to be going into big games with an inferiority complex either. Yeah they're big teams, but so are we.

 

[peterhague]

People keep saying we were lucky. Lucky how?
I didn’t see them hitting the post eight times. Or the ball ricocheting off unaware defenders over the bar from otherwise goal bound shots.
We have a world class goalkeeper who did what a world class goalkeeper does. Kept them out. No luck in that. Just the skill of the best goalie in the world.

We were lucky their goal was offside, it was a couple of inches and could just as easily been the other way.

We were VERY lucky Konate wasn't sent off. I couldn't believe we got away with that.

And we were lucky they didn't score from that goalmouth scramble when their guy blasted over.

We just about managed ok second half, but I'm not sure even then we weren't pushing it a bit - you'd probably expect them to get one or two ricochets or deflections which would lead to chances just from the sheer amount of pressure on our box. Overall I thought we were pretty damn lucky.

 

[ibromurph]

Last night's strategy would have been a perfectly valid one, away from home in the CL, had we had 2 wingers who were able to dominate in 1 v 1 situations on the counter.

Had we had Vini and Rodrigo, or a prime Salah and Mane (+ Robbo), we'd probably have come away with a 3-0 Madrid-eque win.

But this old version of Salah and a meh Diaz lost so many balls, that we were under the cosh all night with little ability to hurt them on the counter, nor discourage them from attacking us with so many overlaps from Hakimi and Mendes.

It also didn't help that their wingers were roasting our FBs, and we needed to double up and protect them with our DMs being pulled out wide. That double up strategy worked (just about) against Semenyo + Kerkez and Bournemouth. PSG had far more quality and on both sides.

In the summer, I sincerely think we need a dominant 1 v 1 LB again, and possibly a dominant 1 v 1 RB too, because Cody isn't really a dominant 1 v 1 LW, nor is Mo anymore, they're both more efficient than dominant. Diaz is neither. Any team that has pace in the wide areas on both sides (Villa, PSG, City, Madrid with Vini and Rodrigo!) will give us problems. Even more so, if they have pacey FBs able to contain our threat on the counter.

In fact, it was the introduction centrally of a pacey and choatic Nunez which caused PSG the most problems. His pace alone put them on the back foot from our long balls. Generally, he's very inefficient and so maybe we'll need that dominant, pacey efficiency coming from our CF now in games like these (Isak?); to make up for our lack of dominance out wide.

 

[tombrown]

People keep saying we were lucky. Lucky how?
I didn’t see them hitting the post eight times. Or the ball ricocheting off unaware defenders over the bar from otherwise goal bound shots.
We have a world class goalkeeper who did what a world class goalkeeper does. Kept them out. No luck in that. Just the skill of the best goalie in the world.

Its a common theme when a goalkeeper has a match like that , that it is put down to luck that you keep a clean sheet. You get the narrative of "if it hadn't been for Alisson, you would have conceded at least 3", but that ignores the fact that the keeper is part of the team and his ability to have matches like that was why we paid £70M for him.

On the other hand if one of the forward players has an excellent match and scores a hattrick, it is seen as a good win & there is nothing lucky about it.

Let it all wash over you & smile smugly in the knowledge that Slot's Quad Squad (yes, lets include the Charity Shield 🙂 ) is on the road to glory

 

[Frogfish]

Agreed @Farkmaster that I don't like how it feels that we have just tried to shut up shop in two big away games recently. It will be interesting to see if this is an away game strategy or whether we'll try it at home too.

A gentle reminder : we won both ! 😉

I will never complain if that continues - even if we get battered from pillar to post ... only then to land the KO blow.

 

[mom]

We were lucky their goal was offside, it was a couple of inches and could just as easily been the other way.

We were VERY lucky Konate wasn't sent off. I couldn't believe we got away with that.

And we were lucky they didn't score from that goalmouth scramble when their guy blasted over.

We just about managed ok second half, but I'm not sure even then we weren't pushing it a bit - you'd probably expect them to get one or two ricochets or deflections which would lead to chances just from the sheer amount of pressure on our box. Overall I thought we were pretty damn lucky.

The Konate one maybe.
Their goal was offside. Doesn’t matter by how much. That’s not luck. It’s offside.
If their guy misses from whatever distance, that’s their problem. It’s not luck, just bad finishing from their side. If it were goal bound and hit’s a stray pigeon, yeh that’s luck.

 

[binomial]

Fuck luck with a duck truck. I still blame beach ball on Pepe, the silly bald twat.

 

[Farkmaster]

The Konate one maybe.
Their goal was offside. Doesn’t matter by how much. That’s not luck. It’s offside.
If their guy misses from whatever distance, that’s their problem. It’s not luck, just bad finishing from their side. If it were goal bound and hit’s a stray pigeon, yeh that’s luck.

When slot says we wouldn't have deserved a draw, do you disagree with him?

Of course we were lucky. We got the absolute most we could have got out of a fucking horrible game state we put ourselves in by being cowards on the ball.

We fought for everything given that game state but if we do that again we lose most of the time, whatever heroics and blocks.

 

[peterhague]

The Konate one maybe.
Their goal was offside. Doesn’t matter by how much. That’s not luck. It’s offside.
If their guy misses from whatever distance, that’s their problem. It’s not luck, just bad finishing from their side. If it were goal bound and hit’s a stray pigeon, yeh that’s luck.

Both the offside and the miss we were basically dependent on things beyond our control going our way. His calf being a couple of inches ahead had no bearing at all on his ability to score. It's basically just random body movements falling in our favour at that particular millisecond. I call that luck.

The miss likewise we were completely dependent on something beyond our control. If he was a guy who generally misses such chances and our defence had deliberately left him free the better to take care of other contingencies, then yeah that's not luck. But it's almost certainly the case that we just lost control of that situation and we then just had to hope they didn't take advantage. It wasn't some calculation on our part to let them or even him get in that position.

The point is if you could replay those incidents with the same players many times, more often than not they'd go against you. And certainly at least ONE of them would go against you.

 

[mom]

Both the offside and the miss we were basically dependent on things beyond our control going our way. His calf being a couple of inches ahead had no bearing at all on his ability to score. It's basically just random body movements falling in our favour at that particular millisecond. I call that luck.

The miss likewise we were completely dependent on something beyond our control. If he was a guy who generally misses such chances and our defence had deliberately left him free the better to take care of other contingencies, then yeah that's not luck. But it's almost certainly the case that we just lost control of that situation and we then just had to hope they didn't take advantage. It wasn't some calculation on our part to let them or even him get in that position.

The point is if you could replay those incidents with the same players many times, more often than not they'd go against you. And certainly at least ONE of them would go against you.

Dunno man. He’s offside. I see that as good defending and managing the lines well.
Him missing is him missing, but it could also easily been seen as him getting frustrated at how well we’d kept them out.
Did we deserve to win? No. Draw? Maybe. But (and this isn’t directed at you) I’m not having how it was a massive lucky result and how we should have lost by four or five as a lot of folk out there would have me believe. Our defence did well and our keeper played an absolute blinder.
I’ve seen the same keeping antics from other teams’ keepers against us and we often hear folk say, well, their keeper had a phenomenal game. Not that we were unlucky.
Cant have it both ways.

 

[mom]

When slot says we wouldn't have deserved a draw, do you disagree with him?

Of course we were lucky. We got the absolute most we could have got out of a fucking horrible game state we put ourselves in by being cowards on the ball.

We fought for everything given that game state but if we do that again we lose most of the time, whatever heroics and blocks.

Yes I do. Those shots on target didn’t keep themselves out. Or did they? Looked like it was a world class exhibition performance from the world’s best keeper to me.
I don’t see that as luck.
But I can see why some would see last night as being lucky, I just disagree.

 

[Farkmaster]

Yes I do. Those shots on target didn’t keep themselves out. Or did they? Looked like it was a world class exhibition performance from the world’s best keeper to me.
I don’t see that as luck.
But I can see why some would see last night as being lucky, I just disagree.

Then there is no luck, is there? Everything happens as it should happen and it's a deterministic game.

 

[Hyena]

Slot is managing a team he inherited with almost no player signed for him, and he's done very well.

I think he's just being realistic about what this group of players can do. Maybe a bit too critical at times (eg doesn't trust Endo or Elliott) but I think he has been pretty on point.

If, in two big games, he thinks we don't have the players to dominate - and we have won both) I think it's a fair judgment call.