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How do you solve a problem like Mascherano?

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SummerOnions

SummerOnions

Let's Push Things Forward
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So say he goes.

We have 3 options:


1. Adopt a different system
2. Play Lucas there instead
3. Buy a new DM


I think personally we have no choice but to go for the latter. Lucas is shit in DM, and can't tackle a 2 year old, and i don't think we have the players to go for a wholly different approach.

With that in mind, who would you want as his replacement? I think Diego Perez has looked fucking awesome for Uruguay, but erm yeah, Salif Diao.

What do we reckon?
 
How old is Maldini's son now?

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/v/zXpPD3FpxIg[/flash]
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=40642.msg1122471#msg1122471 date=1276817564]
about that i reckon yeah. He isn' worth more than that though i dont think.
[/quote]

30m would be good business for a player we got for 20 who wants to leave then we have to be happy with that.
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=40642.msg1122463#msg1122463 date=1276817101]
So say he goes.

We have 3 options:


1. Adopt a different system
2. Play Lucas there instead
3. Buy a new DM


I think personally we have no choice but to go for the latter. Lucas is shit in DM, and can't tackle a 2 year old, and i don't think we have the players to go for a wholly different approach.

With that in mind, who would you want as his replacement? I think Diego Perez has looked fucking awesome for Uruguay, but erm yeah, Salif Diao.

What do we reckon?

[/quote]

Lucas is a far better tackler than you're making out, as stats have showed.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40642.msg1122487#msg1122487 date=1276822310]

Lucas is a far better tackler than you're making out, as stats have showed.
[/quote]

If we had him as first choice DM, a top ten finish next season will be out of our reach. To me, it is as simple as that. It is not a case of finding a scapegoat. In fact he was one of the players who gave a shit last season. He played above his ability, but that still is not good enough for LFC. Its not his fault he got as much time as he did last season, but we should at least ensure that we are not going to get a repeat of that next year. This is not his level.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=40642.msg1122500#msg1122500 date=1276829116]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40642.msg1122487#msg1122487 date=1276822310]

Lucas is a far better tackler than you're making out, as stats have showed.
[/quote]

If we had him as first choice DM, a top ten finish next season will be out of our reach. To me, it is as simple as that. It is not a case of finding a scapegoat. In fact he was one of the players who gave a shit last season. He played above his ability, but that still is not good enough for LFC. Its not his fault he got as much time as he did last season, but we should at least ensure that we are not going to get a repeat of that next year. This is not his level.
[/quote]

That's clearly nonsense.

But anyway, as it seems most likely that Masher will go, we'll have to prepare for his departure and find someone to replace. We could get away wihout having an identified DM if we were fucking brilliant all over the park, but we're not, so we won't.

Rather than replacing Masher with a like for like 'stopper', I'd prefer to try and find a deep-lying shield who can double as a playmaker. If Mascherano had a weekness, it was with the ball at his feet. I'd be keen on finding someone who can start moves, and initiate tempo from deep whilst also prividing that 'shiled' role that's imperative in such a position. Not as easy task of course, and I've no idea who such a player is (Busquets maybe?), if we could afford one, or if the new manager will see it that way, but going off the back of last season's performances - such a player is badly needed.
 
I largely agree.

We need someone around the £13M mark who's decent and up and coming. We need someone who is able to start moves, can play alongside anyone and is less specialised. A young Barry or Carrick are the English examples I can give, but I'm sure there's better ones.

I've warmed a lot to Javier this season and he won't be easy to replace, but I'm not scared about doing so, certainly not like I was when we sold Xabi.
 
I think we still need a DM (if Masher goes), though one who's probably a bit more of an all rounder. I don't want to see us overly dependant on two DM's again, I think Lucas did ok in the role, but it was clearly not his natural position and he was made to look worse by the fact that he (and Masher) had no one alongside to compliment them. When he played alongside Stevie or Aquilani (on the rare few occasions) he faired better and so did we.
 
I know alot of this decision should be absed on fitness, and being reassured he will play the majority of games, but I dont think you can look past Scott Parker in the shielding role. Not only is he a realistic target, but he is an excellent fit.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=40642.msg1122487#msg1122487 date=1276822310]
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=40642.msg1122463#msg1122463 date=1276817101]
So say he goes.

We have 3 options:


1. Adopt a different system
2. Play Lucas there instead
3. Buy a new DM


I think personally we have no choice but to go for the latter. Lucas is shit in DM, and can't tackle a 2 year old, and i don't think we have the players to go for a wholly different approach.

With that in mind, who would you want as his replacement? I think Diego Perez has looked fucking awesome for Uruguay, but erm yeah, Salif Diao.

What do we reckon?

[/quote]

Lucas is a far better tackler than you're making out, as stats have showed.
[/quote]

Lucas is a shit tackler. SOmetimes when I need to find things out, I take a look at them myself rather than reading the statistics... It is just like waxing the skiis. Sometimes it helps to look out the window to find the correect weather, not just reading the cnn/weather.
 
providing we get a 'competent' tackler and someone who can actually pass the ball then we'll actually be better off when mash fucks off
 
I'd change the formation and just play one holding CM.

This will get flamed but i'd be tempted to play Stevie there. Use the money to buy another attack minded midfielder.

-------Stevie--------

--Ozil-----Aquilani
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40642.msg1122535#msg1122535 date=1276845004]
I know alot of this decision should be absed on fitness, and being reassured he will play the majority of games, but I dont think you can look past Scott Parker in the shielding role. Not only is he a realistic target, but he is an excellent fit.
[/quote]

Hmmm, he's 29 though. If we could get him for a few million, I'd agree he's a decent choice, but I'd rather find someone in the 22-25 age band.

What's happening with Dafour (however you spell it) at Standard Liege?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40642.msg1122557#msg1122557 date=1276848601]
providing we get a 'competent' tackler and someone who can actually pass the ball then we'll actually be better off when mash fucks off
[/quote]

Yawn.

Like fuck we will. With Masher gone EVERYBODY else, including the fullbacks, is going to have to do more defending. That's how good the little fella is at it. No merely "competent" tackler will avoid that.
 
didn't west ham say the only player not for sale was parker?

I like RAfas idea, but i don't think gerrard has got the legs any more. You;ll struggle to stop him going forward as well. I'd be happy with a busquets (but we won't get him) or if city and chelsea don't want him, try to get yaya.

Also......if mascher is going to inter, say we want cambiasso in exchange 😛
 
You deal with Mascherano's departure by adapting your style of play to the remaining players available.

We will not be in a position to get a like for like player (if one existed) as we will not have the financial clout or the attraction of CL football to get a ready made replacement.

In the event that no or very few transfers are made (and the new guy sticks with similar formations to Benitez) we will have to play Lucas in that role.

If replacing Benitez is difficult it is even more difficult to replace key players.
 
Banega's worth a look. His signing would be a shift in - he's not the all-action Masher type - towards a deep-lying "quarterback" midfielder with a lovely passing range and also some bite.

Stick Stevie and Aquilani ahead of him and we'd be offensive in the middle but have two players that can put in some tackles. Lucas can cover any of the three midfield positions, he's good enough. Moreover Banega's supposed clause means he'll cost <15m so we'd have some money over from the Masher deal to add to the Benayoun money and get an Ozil or the like.

So lose Masher + Benayoun equates roughly to gaining Banega and Ozil. Will do me.

We'd still need to use the Babel/Riera/etc money for attacking reinforcements with at least one genuine wide player coming this way.
 
If you're playing Carra + one other at CB, you need some pace and movement in CM. An Alonso type on his own would not be enough against good teams.

If City do get Yaya, btw, we should bid for De Jong - he's not brilliant, but he's a good, tough-tackling defensive midfielder, and he probably wouldn't cost a fortune.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40642.msg1122581#msg1122581 date=1276850886]
If you're playing Carra + one other at CB, you need some pace and movement in CM. An Alonso type on his own would not be enough against good teams.

If City do get Yaya, btw, we should bid for De Jong - he's not brilliant, but he's a good, tough-tackling defensive midfielder, and he probably wouldn't cost a fortune.

[/quote]

i am a big fan of de jong actually
 
Good shout. I expect they'd want to keep him, but he might be open to the idea of coming to us under those circs.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40642.msg1122581#msg1122581 date=1276850886]
If you're playing Carra + one other at CB, you need some pace and movement in CM. An Alonso type on his own would not be enough against good teams.

If City do get Yaya, btw, we should bid for De Jong - he's not brilliant, but he's a good, tough-tackling defensive midfielder, and he probably wouldn't cost a fortune.

[/quote]

I agree, but is this not a bit of a trap that people fall into, would it not be better to get the right centre back pairing rather than have a midfielder taking more responsibility for defending.
It's like this business of having to play Heskey as he fits in with Wayne, if Wayne is playing shit Heskey is a waste of space so both forward positions are wasted

regards
 
Is it not time we dispensed with this cherry picking of other well known players at other clubs that could fill the gap.

Is it just me or are we short of cash and have owners whose actions appear to support the theory that they'll use incoming transfer fees for purposes other than buying replacements?

The new age of austerity will live and breathe in Liverpool FC.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40642.msg1122594#msg1122594 date=1276851431]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40642.msg1122581#msg1122581 date=1276850886]
If you're playing Carra + one other at CB, you need some pace and movement in CM. An Alonso type on his own would not be enough against good teams.

If City do get Yaya, btw, we should bid for De Jong - he's not brilliant, but he's a good, tough-tackling defensive midfielder, and he probably wouldn't cost a fortune.

[/quote]

I agree, but is this not a bit of a trap that people fall into, would it not be better to get the right centre back pairing rather than have a midfielder taking more responsibility for defending.
It's like this business of having to play Heskey as he fits in with Wayne, if Wayne is playing shit Heskey is a waste of space so both forward positions are wasted

regards
[/quote]

I know what you mean, but Carra is a good CB. He's just a slow, good CB. Skrtel's quick, but a bit of headless chicken, while Agger's sort of mid-paced and slightly daydreamy, and as for the Greek... well...

And there aren't many teams who play without a mobile DM these days, Vlad, certainly not in England.

Plus the fact is that we'll have to replace Mascher, while none of our CBs are agitating for a move, so why change them now? We should keep all the stability we can IMO.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40642.msg1122594#msg1122594 date=1276851431]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=40642.msg1122581#msg1122581 date=1276850886]
If you're playing Carra + one other at CB, you need some pace and movement in CM. An Alonso type on his own would not be enough against good teams.

If City do get Yaya, btw, we should bid for De Jong - he's not brilliant, but he's a good, tough-tackling defensive midfielder, and he probably wouldn't cost a fortune.

[/quote]

I agree, but is this not a bit of a trap that people fall into, would it not be better to get the right centre back pairing rather than have a midfielder taking more responsibility for defending.
It's like this business of having to play Heskey as he fits in with Wayne, if Wayne is playing shit Heskey is a waste of space so both forward positions are wasted

regards
[/quote]

Do you think that Carra will untouchable for our next manager mate?
 
I thought of De Jong too this morning. He's had an excellent first season for Citeh with scope for improvement.

I can't see them letting him go though. I'd imagine they plan to play Toure and De Jong together at the base of a 4-2-3-1 with four attack-minded players in front of them. I hope I'm wrong.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40642.msg1122507#msg1122507 date=1276833016]
I largely agree.

We need someone around the £13M mark who's decent and up and coming. We need someone who is able to start moves, can play alongside anyone and is less specialised. A young Barry or Carrick are the English examples I can give, but I'm sure there's better ones.

I've warmed a lot to Javier this season and he won't be easy to replace, but I'm not scared about doing so, certainly not like I was when we sold Xabi.
[/quote]

Hey, do you remember the whole "who would be harder to replace/who would we miss most?" discussion when Xabi was leaving? That was funny. Someone should find it (not me).
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=40642.msg1122571#msg1122571 date=1276850010]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40642.msg1122557#msg1122557 date=1276848601]
providing we get a 'competent' tackler and someone who can actually pass the ball then we'll actually be better off when mash fucks off
[/quote]

Yawn.

Like fuck we will. With Masher gone EVERYBODY else, including the fullbacks, is going to have to do more defending. That's how good the little fella is at it. No merely "competent" tackler will avoid that.
[/quote]

we've been shipping goals hand over fist so let's not make out mash has been outstanding covering the defensive positions.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=40642.msg1122623#msg1122623 date=1276853192]
I thought of De Jong too this morning. He's had an excellent first season for Citeh with scope for improvement.

I can't see them letting him go though. I'd imagine they plan to play Toure and De Jong together at the base of a 4-2-3-1 with four attack-minded players in front of them. I hope I'm wrong.
[/quote]

If that was true, we should sign Barry.
 
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