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Hardline on Clyne

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I remember organising a lift for a mate of mine from London to a game with DJ Syd.

I met him when he got to Liverpool, and he claimed Syd played 'Jasper Parrot comedy tapes' the whole fucking drive up from Liverpool.

He refused to go back down with him the next morning, and spent a fortune on a variety of train rides.

Brilliant.
 
Kay Age El said:
..in 83 Premiership games Clyne has tallied 1 assist.

I repeat. One assist in 83 games.

Now that is actually even worse than I would've thought it was and it is evident a very obvious issue of concern.

At least I would've thought it was..
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I wouldn't. The whole "assist" concept is artificial and places far too much emphasis on a player happening to be the last one involved in a move before a goal is scored. It doesn't even begin to measure contributions earlier in the move which, by definition, are equally important (or the move wouldn't happen).

Clyne was as well known for his attacking as for his defensive play both at Palace and then at Southampton and that was one of the reasons why we were all well chuffed when he signed. I maintain that it was Rodgers who, towards the end of his time at LFC when he was struggling to fix our inability to defend, turned Clyne into a pale shadow of the overlapping fullback who stood out in both those teams, and I'm confident Klopp can reverse that.
 
I'm going to polarise the debate a bit.

You can have Clyne - the supposedly ineffective going forward defender, but who cares when you've got 4 number tens.

Or

Moreno - attacks at will scores a few goals and gets some assists. But can't fucking defend for his life.

As for that list of people like Alves? Oh yeah, let's put Real and Barca full backs on there. Like they have to defend that much in their leagues.

I'll let them have Baines, and then remove him cos plays for the blueshite.

Fuck me, we moan about defenders who can't defend, then moan about defenders who can. Next up in the series - Joel Matip, why doesn't he spray more 50 yard killer passes? I know he can defend an' all that but.....
 
Modo said:
Probably our most consistent performer, so it's a bit of an enigma to me, I mean the guy can clearly defend. He can run up and down the pitch all day long. He's got pace, he's got solid passing, he can get past the left back but his crossing or his final ball is horrible.


We would have had so many more goals or chances of getting goals if that aspect of his game improved.
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Modo sometimes i feel like smashing the TV watching him. He hardly ever crosses and sometimes i really dont believe he can actually cross the fucking ball. You have to wonder why run up and down that much if all you are gonna do is pass inside and make a big effort out of that simple task. Tgis is why Walker is number one for England and not him.
 
Clyne is boss. Definetly wouldnt do anything with that position in the team. Probably the best right back in the league.
 
moron said:
Modo sometimes i feel like smashing the TV watching him. He hardly ever crosses and sometimes i really dont believe he can actually cross the fucking ball. You have to wonder why run up and down that much if all you are gonna do is pass inside and make a big effort out of that simple task. Tgis is why Walker is number one for England and not him.
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Agreed.
 
Clyne's a good defender and a decent attacking fullback. It's a bit of a rarity to have a fullback who offers a consistent threat and that usually goes hand in hand with sacrificing some defensive ability. Finnan, Arbeloa and Babbel set up chances but I think people are looking back with rose-tinted glasses if they think that any of them offered a consistent delivery from outwide. What did they do was support the attacker well, offer an overlap and crucially - they defended well. That's more or less where Clyne is at. I don't personally think he's had his best season. He's been indecisive and he has uncharacteristically made some defensive errors, but he's a massive upgrade on Glen Johnson, a player who's fans would neglect his complete unreliability and lack of concentration, for a good bit of attacking play here and there.

The irony that this is being brought up as an issue, when the Carragher thread is littered with the same nonsense about these players not being good enough because they don't smash the ball in the top corner from 30 yards and run rings around defenders.

Great, so we all loved watching Cafu, Carlos etc, tearing it up in a technically superior league, it's great to watch. It ain't the Premiership though. The best fullbacks in the English game have been able to defend first & foremost - Neville, Babbel, Finnan, Irwin, Dixon - even more recently Ivanovic for instance. Yeah he can improve, but don't try to argue the toss using Kyle fucking Walker as an example of a better alternative.
 
It's always the same cunts banging on about Carragher and without fail mentioning Cafu and Roberto Carlos

Like they'd have been as good as him at CB anyway
 
For those of you moaning at Modo's initial post - I am certain there is no suggestion of Clyne being a bad player or being replaced. I think what he is trying to say like so many of you may have noticed during games when Clyne is making those attacking runs:-

"Would it fucking hurt just to try and put the odd cross in rather than keep fucking passing inside or backwards" - that is all I think Modo is trying to express, and is just asking the question should someone just instruct Clyne to actually put a few crosses in. I get @Ryan in his initial post about 20 people in the box - but sometimes when nothing else is working it is a good idea to just put in a decent cross which can cause havoc.

If any of you don't understand that then I refer you to the years of Scum dominance in which many games came from David Bekham's crosses and Slur Ferg applying the simple tactic of moving the ball forward quickly and attacking the opposition box through constant crosses. It does work more often than not.

MORON
 
It's a pointless thread Clyne has been fucking great - fullbacks defend first and foremost anything else is a bonus
 
mark1975 said:
Clyne's a good defender and a decent attacking fullback. It's a bit of a rarity to have a fullback who offers a consistent threat and that usually goes hand in hand with sacrificing some defensive ability. Finnan, Arbeloa and Babbel set up chances but I think people are looking back with rose-tinted glasses if they think that any of them offered a consistent delivery from outwide. What did they do was support the attacker well, offer an overlap and crucially - they defended well. That's more or less where Clyne is at. I don't personally think he's had his best season. He's been indecisive and he has uncharacteristically made some defensive errors, but he's a massive upgrade on Glen Johnson, a player who's fans would neglect his complete unreliability and lack of concentration, for a good bit of attacking play here and there.

The irony that this is being brought up as an issue, when the Carragher thread is littered with the same nonsense about these players not being good enough because they don't smash the ball in the top corner from 30 yards and run rings around defenders.

Great, so we all loved watching Cafu, Carlos etc, tearing it up in a technically superior league, it's great to watch. It ain't the Premiership though. The best fullbacks in the English game have been able to defend first & foremost - Neville, Babbel, Finnan, Irwin, Dixon - even more recently Ivanovic for instance. Yeah he can improve, but don't try to argue the toss using Kyle fucking Walker as an example of a better alternative.
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I was one of Magic's fans and I can't agree that his defensive play was that bad all the time. Excellent post otherwise.
 
For me Clyne is a very good full back.

To become a great one he needs to improve his game when going forward.

Controversial as that opinion may seem..
 
I don't think it is really, Kristian. Any debate has been more about whether Clyne is capable of making those improvements. I think he is and IMO his time at his previous clubs shows that.
 
Judge Jules said:
I don't think it is really, Kristian. Any debate has been more about whether Clyne is capable of making those improvements. I think he is and IMO his time at his previous clubs shows that.
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I just got the feel that a lot of posters where attacking the OP for stating the rather obvious that he thought he could be frustrating in that area, which he obviously is/can be. 'It doesn't matter as long as he can defend', 'Wing-backs are never good in attack' etc.

Their fiery responses, to me at least, seemed weird and kinda agenda-driven. I hope that's not the case then and that we are actually just discussing whether he can/will improve that part of his game as I believe it will become even more important as we keep on improving as a team as we'll enjoy even more of the possession in the final third.
 
..and Rose with a wonderful assist in the Spurs game.

Wing backs contribution in the final third can win you games.

Well done Clyne. About time too.
 
Modo said:
Exactly what I wanted from him.
As I said in my first post:
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HA HA HA !!!! - two crosses today then and goals. We need to do more of that everyone - because going through the middle can be much harder. Variation is the key - it is how we modulate our phasers against these die hand defensive shields.
 
you're worried about milner?

he's easily the player im least worried about in our squad. He had a speed demon coming at him all night , it as never going to be easy and he didn't get anywhere near enough support in the first half and understandably got beaten a few times. Bothered
 
About half of the first goals scored in all of the Premiership games this round were either setup or scored by full backs.

In the Spurs game Walker and Rose were pivotal in breaking down a stubborn Hull defense constantly bombing forward, taking on defenders. Clyne made himself available and swung in a beauty of a cross. Zabaletta broke the deadlock in City's home game and Baines crossed for Everton's first against Arsenal.

So contrary to what some posters in this thread may believe it's actually VERY important that your full backs - especially if your a team that's going to dominate possession - thrive in the final third of the pitch. Take on defenders, swing in crosses and generally add up the numbers in attack.

Is it possible that we can put @Ryan's ridiculous "There's a fucking reason they all contribute fuck all offensively" quote about full backs to bed now? As valiant a defense as it was of Clyne's obvious shortcomings in that department it could not be more wrong really..
 
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Kay Age El said:
About half of the first goals scored in all of the Premiership games this round were either setup or scored by full backs.

In the Spurs game Walker and Rose were pivotal in breaking down a stubborn Hull defense constantly bombing forward, taking on defenders. Clyne made himself available and swung in a beauty of a cross. Zabaletta broke the deadlock in City's home game and Baines crossed for Everton's first against Arsenal.

So contrary to what some posters in this thread may believe it's actually VERY important that your full backs - especially if your a team that's going to dominate possession - thrive in the final third of the pitch. Take on defenders, swing in crosses and generally add up the numbers in attack.

Is it possible that we can put @Ryan's ridiculous "There's a fucking reason they all contribute fuck all offensively" quote about full backs to bed now? As valiant a defense as it was of Clyne's obvious shortcomings in that department it could not be more wrong really..
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didnt Coleman just score for Everton against Arsenal?
 
We'd have won against Southampton and against West Ham if he was better in the final 3rd. He's a good full back but like Modo says, he needs to improve his final ball and crossing.

Hopefully last night was the start of that improvement. If his final ball matched that of a Baines (or even Brunt), he'd be world class.
 
Ha ha..Coleman also scored, he did. So that's two important attacking actions from full backs to overcome Arsenal's 1-nil lead.. but yeah.. the contribute fuck all.

Lolz.
 
ibromurph said:
We'd have won against Southampton and against West Ham if he was better in the final 3rd. He's a good full back but like Modo says, he needs to improve his final ball and crossing.

Hopefully last night was the start of that improvement. If his final ball matched that of a Baines (or even Brunt), he'd be world class.
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The list keeps on growing. Brunt also assisted for WBA. Walker for the second in Spurs.

So that's about 50% of all goals in a random match day of Premiership football that has either been setup or scored by full backs.

'They all contribute fuck all in attack' will go down as one of the more legendary, yet massively flawed, quotes on 6CM for me.

Full backs are supposed to contribute in attack and not just as a 'bonus'. They are adding up numbers, creating space, stretching and breaking down defenses. I thought this was pretty common knowledge really and that's probably why some of the daft comments in this thread annoys me greatly..

Anyways, good to see Clyne setting up a goal yesterday, as said, if he can improve that part of his game he can become a great as he's already brilliant in the defensive areas of the game.
 
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But do those fullbacks do that every weekend? There are 20 teams in the league, each gameweek will see a FB contribute towards a goal in some way or other.

I like my full back chipping in when he can but I also agree that defending is his first duty. Anything else is a bonus.
 
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