• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Hardline on Clyne

Forums Unread posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
HC said:
you're worried about milner?

he's easily the player im least worried about in our squad. He had a speed demon coming at him all night , it as never going to be easy and he didn't get anywhere near enough support in the first half and understandably got beaten a few times. Bothered
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am. Not because of last night but he has been on a downward form in recent weeks.
Looked a bit slow in the tackle (the pen vs Bournemouth) and he's the player in the league that has been dribbled past the most so far.
He's still been extremely good in that left back position and I wouldnt drop him.
Cause he's been an integral part of our attacking play and a big improvement on Moreno.

All I'm saying is that its a shame we dont have a decent left back option so that we can rotate a bit. Keep him fresh and rested in certain games etc.
 
Last edited:
Clyne is fucking superb, there isn't a player in the world that couldn't improve aspects of their game.

I would think the thread would be more fitting if it said "Clyne - just Clyne"
I would take him as he is right now for the next 8 years with no inClyne or deClyne in his performance.

He's perfect and what we have missed for a long time.

If we can get similar for the left back in the summer spot I'll be delighted.
 
Dreambeliever said:
I would think the thread would be more fitting if it said "Clyne - just Clyne"
Click to expand...

903.png
 
Kay Age El said:
As Jules I believe it was pointed out his attacking stats were far better at Soton than they've been with us so far.

We would not have bought him if he didn't also contribute in attack so to simplify it and call it a 'bonus' is just wrong. It's a key attribute for any attacking full back that he can assist and contribute in attack.
Click to expand...

But the way some of you lads bang on, he's only contributing if he's scoring or directly assisting, which IS nonsense. He supports the attack well and is always an outlet on the flank. Can he improve? Yes he can, as most players can, but direct impact isn't the complete story of his contributions. Just like this midweek group of matches hasn't been typical of the respective fullbacks regular games for their clubs.

I think you completely misunderstand the "bonus" comment. The attacking ability and the subsequent contribution of defenders in that sense is always overplayed and over criticised by exactly the same posters on here. Matip may just be one of the most glamorous centre backs we've had in ages, if he only gets two goals a season it won't be an issue, because no one has over-egged that ability or painted him as anything other than a gifted and technically able defender. Because first and foremost he's a great defender, everything else is secondary. Its not "key", it's an aspect that is no more than a bonus. It's not essential if their primary purpose is largely being carried out with aplomb.
 
Last edited:
mark1975 said:
But the way some of you lads bang on, he's only contributing if he's scoring or directly assisting, which IS nonsense. He supports the attack well and is always an outlet on the flank. Can he improve? Yes he can, as most players can, but direct impact isn't the complete story of his contributions. Just like this midweek group of matches hasn't been typical of the respective fullbacks regular games for their clubs.

I think you completely misunderstand the "bonus" comment. The attacking ability and the subsequent contribution of defenders in that sense is always overplayed and over criticised by exactly the same posters on here. Matip may just be one of the most glamorous centre backs we've had in ages, if he only gets two goals a season it won't be an issue, because no one has over-egged that ability or painted him as anything other than a gifted and technically able defender. Because first and foremost he's a great defender, everything else is secondary. Its not "key", it's an aspect that is no more than a bonus. It's not essential if their primary purpose is largely being carried out with aplomb.
Click to expand...
I agree that assists alone does not tell the whole story here and I obviously also had in mind all the times I've watched him play where - sometimes - I've found him frustrating in the final third. His crosses being the biggest issue for me, even when not under pressure, he has showed a tendency to hit the first man in defense - a lot like when Gerrard hit our corners which we also criticized him for (I know I did at least, even though he's probably one of three of my favorite players of all time).

I get your Matip comparison I just don't think it's completely valid, as CB's especially in Klopp's system are not supposed to be involved in attack as much as our full backs, not even close. Full backs ARE an attacking outlet hence why the description 'bonus' for me at least is not suitable when it comes to their attacking contribution. We need them to contribute and deliver in attack as well. I guess we might simply just disagree here, but when I look at a FB's potential I am just as much considering his ability going forward as much as anything. He need the right balance.

Moreno is a good example of a FB that's very good at bombing forward but is equally inept at defending, why he's not really an option to consider until that part of his game comes together. FB's of old were not expected to be as involved in attack as they are today, and Moreno would be called a winger back then, but in today's game and especially when looking at FB's at the top teams there is an increasing need for them to be equally adapt in attack as in defense. Clyne will hopefully get there - as many has said he seems to have all the right physical and mental attributes to do so, so it's a matter of time.

PS You gave me a slap over the fingers because of my mention of Kyle Walker but for me he's at least on par with Clyne and marginally ahead of him too (because of his contribution in the final third). Walker is not Mr. Reliable in the same category as Clyne but far more a threat when going forward, he's got an insane burst of pace, can take on defenders and is extremely strong man to man. I get it why people don't like him as he seems very arrogant but I think it's weird if you don't appreciate him as an attacking FB. Rose as well. I am almost certain they'd both be picked ahead of Clyne and Milner if they were Klopp's to chose from - but that's another discussion.
 
Kay Age El said:
I agree that assists alone does not tell the whole story here and I obviously also had in mind all the times I've watched him play where - sometimes - I've found him frustrating in the final third. His crosses being the biggest issue for me, even when not under pressure, he has showed a tendency to hit the first man in defense - a lot like when Gerrard hit our corners which we also criticized him for (I know I did at least, even though he's probably one of three of my favorite players of all time).

I get your Matip comparison I just don't think it's completely valid, as CB's especially in Klopp's system are not supposed to be involved in attack as much as our full backs, not even close. Full backs ARE an attacking outlet hence why the description 'bonus' for me at least is not suitable when it comes to their attacking contribution. We need them to contribute and deliver in attack as well. I guess we might simply just disagree here, but when I look at a FB's potential I am just as much considering his ability going forward as much as anything. He need the right balance.

Moreno is a good example of a FB that's very good at bombing forward but is equally inept at defending, why he's not really an option to consider until that part of his game comes together. FB's of old were not expected to be as involved in attack as they are today, and Moreno would be called a winger back then, but in today's game and especially when looking at FB's at the top teams there is an increasing need for them to be equally adapt in attack as in defense. Clyne will hopefully get there - as many has said he seems to have all the right physical and mental attributes to do so, so it's a matter of time.

PS You gave me a slap over the fingers because of my mention of Kyle Walker but for me he's at least on par with Clyne and marginally ahead of him too (because of his contribution in the final third). Walker is not Mr. Reliable in the same category as Clyne but far more a threat when going forward, he's got an insane burst of pace, can take on defenders and is extremely strong man to man. I get it why people don't like him as he seems very arrogant but I think it's weird if you don't appreciate him as an attacking FB. Rose as well. I am almost certain they'd both be picked ahead of Clyne and Milner if they were Klopp's to chose from - but that's another discussion.
Click to expand...

Ok, let's put this a different way. You are arguing about how crucial fullbacks are to this system and to Klopp. He isn't shy of including players further up the pitch who are functional to the system, rather than prolific themselves - see Firmino, Lallana (before now), Henderson etc. None of them weigh in with enough for some people, but they make the set up function, regardless of them not statistically puching too high. So why is it any different for defenders? If anything it should apply even more so. Like I said about Clyne, he is always an outlet on the flank and provides good support and interchanging for the attackers. He contributes more than enough in that sense.
 
mark1975 said:
Ok, let's put this a different way. You are arguing about how crucial fullbacks are to this system and to Klopp. He isn't shy of including players further up the pitch who are functional to the system, rather than prolific themselves - see Firmino, Lallana (before now), Henderson etc. None of them weigh in with enough for some people, but they make the set up function, regardless of them not statistically puching too high. So why is it any different for defenders? If anything it should apply even more so. Like I said about Clyne, he is always an outlet on the flank and provides good support and interchanging for the attackers. He contributes more than enough in that sense.
Click to expand...
For what it's worth I've got/had issues with Henderson massive lack of goal threat, Firmino's current poor run and almost everything about Lallana's game prior to this season.

Again, for me, no one is too good to avoid criticism, this thread wasn't about our midfield/forward players though why that's kinda irrelevant? As a whole we need to improve, unless of course 6th to 8th is within our criteria for success (which is obv isn't why everyone has to sharpen their game, Lallana-style if you like).

I agree that Clyne offers enough when it comes to go forward, support in attack etc., what I at times have been disappointed with is his final product. A wasted attempt at a take-on, poor touch, cross or pass that eventually squandered a good opportunity. Mainly the crossing/passing part of that.
 
This really should not be about tactics, it's not as complicated as that. It's about a gem of a full back that we are really lucky to have. Modo fair enough said in the post that he's very good but was implying he should improve his offensive capabilities to be considered great - Most of us who have half a clue are saying that his offensive capability is more than adequate but more than that he's a quality defender. As I said before, There are far more deserving cases than Clyne to pick-over to see how they could improve their game. Hendo and Can should be much easier
 
It's not like there is a limit on the number of players that can be discussed at any one time. If there topics more deserving of air time - the floor is open. I'm sure the forum will be flooded with threads imminently.
 
That Coutinho is a good player it's a pity he can't tackle - he could improve on that and stop a few goals if he put his mind to it .....
 
This thread has really made me angry based on the initial responses and later ones. Clyne has earned the square root of bollox to be considered as a player who we cannot be critical of when there is a valid reason as originally posted by Modo.
 
moron said:
This thread has really made me angry based on the initial responses and later ones. Clyne has earned the square root of bollox to be considered as a player who we cannot be critical of when there is a valid reason as originally posted by Modo.
Click to expand...

Oh dear if this load of shite really has made you angry - you have a serious problem old lad
 
I finally get it, it's wrong to discuss how effective a player is and how effective a player potentially can be.
Like how Coutinho used to sky his shots before, but got better.
Or how Lallana used to dwell on the ball.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Frogfish
    • Like
  • Locked
Should they stay or should they go.
2 3
Replies
85
Views
2K
737Max
737Max
Modo
  • Locked
Jota - starter or impact sub?
2 3
Replies
76
Views
2K
King Binny
King Binny
Farkmaster
    • Like
  • Locked
How good is this team?
2 3 4
Replies
116
Views
2K
Champ
C
Squiggles
    • Like
  • Locked
Other PL Games 24-25/08/2024
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
156
Views
3K
CueEye
C
rurikbird
    • Like
  • Locked
Curtinho Wijnaldum
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
Woland
Woland
Back
Top Bottom