The 'coup' is the player. Not the price.
Go Goetze him!
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The 'coup' is the player. Not the price.
Lets be very very frank here.
Regardless of whatever peoples opinion are on him in terms of decline in ability etc, there is absolutely NO doubt that with most likely no champions league football next season, this signing would be an amazing one to pull off.
Klopp gets the best out of his players, and Gotze was a fine one under him at dortmund!
I'm all for this, its a statement of intent if we can pull it off!
Regardless of whatever peoples opinion are on him in terms of decline in ability etc, there is absolutely NO doubt that with most likely no champions league football next season, this signing would be an amazing one to pull off.
Klopp gets the best out of his players, and Gotze was a fine one under him at dortmund!
I'm all for this, its a statement of intent if we can pull it off!
Nail on the head!
Nothing lazy happening in them budgie smugglers.
I was against signing Götze just a few months ago, but what I saw from our team in the last couple of month made me reconsider. What I saw is that we don't just lack pace and goals up front, but also just general attacking quality. Players making wrong decisions time and time again in promising positions, failing to convert great chances, not making the right pass, not delivering quality crosses etc. Klopp has talked about "decisions in attack" after almost every game and I suspect he's getting sick of talking about it.
Götze certainly has this deeply ingrained basic quality and class that our attack currently routinely lacks. Like knowing how to make the right movement and position himself to win a header against 2 much taller Italian CBs a few minutes ago – and casually direct it into the corner and not into the goalkeeper's arms. Or scoring the winning goal of the World Cup, not showing any sign of nerves in the biggest game of his career – that's what I mean by "deeply ingrained," it's quality that doesn't disappear under pressure (contrast it to some of our players, who only look good when The Lying Rag is shining and the wind is blowing in their direction). These are the things that win classier teams games against decent teams that lack that "something extra," which unfortunately at the moment is us.
I didn't (and still don't) see Götze as some kind of "saviour" who can transform a team engulfed in an identity crisis and single-handedly drive them to glory – he's no Suarez or Maradona. But a lot has changed in the last few months; Klopp was able to instill an identity within the current set of players. Now we can match almost any team in terms of intensity and we are starting to see outlines of a Borussia-like style of play. It's time to build on that and add some real quality in several positions in the summer and I can see a player like Götze making a big impact.
Götze certainly has this deeply ingrained basic quality and class that our attack currently routinely lacks. Like knowing how to make the right movement and position himself to win a header against 2 much taller Italian CBs a few minutes ago – and casually direct it into the corner and not into the goalkeeper's arms. Or scoring the winning goal of the World Cup, not showing any sign of nerves in the biggest game of his career – that's what I mean by "deeply ingrained," it's quality that doesn't disappear under pressure (contrast it to some of our players, who only look good when The Lying Rag is shining and the wind is blowing in their direction). These are the things that win classier teams games against decent teams that lack that "something extra," which unfortunately at the moment is us.
I didn't (and still don't) see Götze as some kind of "saviour" who can transform a team engulfed in an identity crisis and single-handedly drive them to glory – he's no Suarez or Maradona. But a lot has changed in the last few months; Klopp was able to instill an identity within the current set of players. Now we can match almost any team in terms of intensity and we are starting to see outlines of a Borussia-like style of play. It's time to build on that and add some real quality in several positions in the summer and I can see a player like Götze making a big impact.
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Tell me again how we don't need a player like that:
Some stats:
2010-11 (18 years old): 41 games, 8 goals and 16 assists in all competitions (a goal or an assist in 59% of games played)
2011-11 (19 years old): 26 games (missed half a season with osteitis pubis), 7 goals and 8 assists in all competitions (58%)
2012-13 (20 years old): 44 games, 16 goals and 20 assists in all competitions (81%)
2013-14 (21 years old): 45 games, 15 goals and 13 assists in all competitions (62%)
2014-15 (22 years old): 48 games, 15 goals and 7 assists in all competitions (46%)
2015-16 (23 years old) 12 games so far (missed half the season with a hamstring injury), 4 goals and 2 assists in all competitions (50%)
Overall, he is quite consistent, despite the young age – in each of the full seasons (not counting his debut one) he got around 15 goals in all competitions and roughly 13 assists on average. In the 2 injury-ravaged seasons (including the current one), his attacking stats per game don't change much either. 2012-13 looks like an outlier, but it was probably due to playing in his last season under Klopp in a team that was at the peak of its powers. If he can do that at age 20, there is no reason why he can't match and even improve on that result at 24-27.
For comparison, last time we had an attacking midfielder with 15 or more goals in all competitions was Kuyt in 2008-09 (but he was also a striker and probably took some penalties too) and before that Gerrard in 2007-08. Götze reached 15 goals in 3 out of 6 seasons before age 23.
Some stats:
2010-11 (18 years old): 41 games, 8 goals and 16 assists in all competitions (a goal or an assist in 59% of games played)
2011-11 (19 years old): 26 games (missed half a season with osteitis pubis), 7 goals and 8 assists in all competitions (58%)
2012-13 (20 years old): 44 games, 16 goals and 20 assists in all competitions (81%)
2013-14 (21 years old): 45 games, 15 goals and 13 assists in all competitions (62%)
2014-15 (22 years old): 48 games, 15 goals and 7 assists in all competitions (46%)
2015-16 (23 years old) 12 games so far (missed half the season with a hamstring injury), 4 goals and 2 assists in all competitions (50%)
Overall, he is quite consistent, despite the young age – in each of the full seasons (not counting his debut one) he got around 15 goals in all competitions and roughly 13 assists on average. In the 2 injury-ravaged seasons (including the current one), his attacking stats per game don't change much either. 2012-13 looks like an outlier, but it was probably due to playing in his last season under Klopp in a team that was at the peak of its powers. If he can do that at age 20, there is no reason why he can't match and even improve on that result at 24-27.
For comparison, last time we had an attacking midfielder with 15 or more goals in all competitions was Kuyt in 2008-09 (but he was also a striker and probably took some penalties too) and before that Gerrard in 2007-08. Götze reached 15 goals in 3 out of 6 seasons before age 23.
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Is he an insurance fraudster in his spare time?
Re: Di Maria, he never wanted to come to Utd really but started pretty well. Wasn't it after his house got burgled that it all started going wrong? He was a bad signing because you don't spunk 60M on a player that doesn't want to come.
Re: Gotze very talented player and we should probably sign if we can but what we really need is a Reus type and we'd still have to buy one.
Wonder which players will lose out in our team this summe.
Re: Gotze very talented player and we should probably sign if we can but what we really need is a Reus type and we'd still have to buy one.
Wonder which players will lose out in our team this summe.
I agree, we do need a quick winger who is better than Ibe. My dream scenario for this summer would involve us signing both Götze and Leroy Sane (or another player of this type, but I really like Sane). With that injection of quality and cutting edge in the AM area, I think we could actually afford to keep the same strikers, or even sell one of them (say, Benteke) and still have a vastly improved attack.
As to who would lose out, I would think Lallana would be the obvious choice – he's just not on the same level. And maybe (it's just my speculation) Coutinho could be moved back to the CM playmaker role to free up another attacking position.
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We've been linked quite a bit with Kostic.
#10, no?
Watch that clip again - in some parts the number is 100, e.g. 2:04 mark.
OK, I didn't notice. But currently he's #10. I guess he wore #100 when someone else had the #10 shirt, kind of shows his attitude.
No, you (and a lot of the footballing world) have no idea how to judge a player. You're looking at all the wrong things.
Thats all that hindsight shows.
It was a bad idea at the time. Most people are just too stupid to realise it.
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Yes, if only we had you and the informed few to tell us that Di Maria wasn't good enough for United.
Yes, if only we had you and the informed few to tell us that Di Maria wasn't good enough for United.
Its amazing that he hasnt been headhunted already. I guess the footballing world just isnt ready to be revolutionized.
Yes, if only we had you and the informed few to tell us that Di Maria wasn't good enough for United.
I tell you these things all the time.
Even your phrase ' wasn't good enough for United' tells me you're looking at things too simplistically - like a Fifa 16 ratings kinda way.
You need to keep in mind a few things, the two main ones in Di Maria's case:
1. The Premiership being the toughest league in Europe to play in. Also the most physically demanding.
2. The fact that most AM's are better in their early 20's rather than late 20's.
Combine both together and you've got a recipe for disaster with a 26/27 year old attacking mid £60m signing.
I'm not surprised he's shown improvement in a really shite league.
And i was on hiatus when Di Maria signed so i can't bump a thread to show you how right I was.
So to get back on topic, lets apply that to Gotze.
Pro:
He's a great talent who hasn't stuck with a top tier team - no shame in that.
He may be reasonably priced.
He's only 23.
He's played about 250 top level games.
Cons:
His injuries suggest he'll continue to have muscle injuries and inflammation difficulties.
He broke on the scene at age 17 and played regularly from then. That takes a toll (think Torres, Owen, Fowler - although Fabregas is probably a better comparison).
Would i sign him for 20-30m on a five year deal ?
Yes, but i'd be wary of extending the contract any further than that.
Its only a matter of time.
Ross, you're clearly interested and fascinated with sporting injuries and definitely a lot more interested than anyone else on here. You've suffered quite a few injuries yourself so you're well read up on the causes and recoveries. Di Maria is another who's had an injury that you're well read up on but it doesn't mean he wasn't a good player when he joined United. He was excellent for Madrid and Argentina the year before he moved to United. What united paid for him was way OTT but United were throwing crazy money at anyone who would join them. Move on lads.
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