Gerrard
- Thread starter Fabio
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Surely this has got to be a wind up?
Was he really as bad as this thread makes out? No offence to Allan, who seems to be a very good player, but someone has to make an attacking pass at some point in the game and Allan wasn't contributing to the attack at all. Everyone seems to be obsessed with Barcas short passing and long build up play, but they are equally capable of playing an early through ball (Xavi in particular) and there is nothing in the rule book to say Gerrard has to play a short pass sideways every time he gets the ball. It has also been discussed many times on this site in regards to Lucas and Alonso, that you are going to have higher passing success rate if you play the safe pass every time.
I also think Gerrard played a big part in Sterlings performance. Sterling was quiet in the first half and I think Gerrard took it upon himself to bring him into the game by playing attacking passes he could run on to, which coincided with him starting to beat his marker.
The biggest problem is that he is playing too deep, and he doesn't have a lot to work with up front. Rosco was actually quite right when he mentioned that (some*) managers tend to stick to one strategy / formation / system that worked for them in the past rather than building the formation around the players. At the moment, Rodgers is trying to copy Swansea and that means Gerrard is being played out of position. Obviously Lucas being injured is not helping, and why Kenny and Rodgers both chose not to buy a backup is a mystery to me, but in my opinion Gerrard should be closer to the net and the leg work should be done by other players. We have one player in the team who has a proven track record of scoring goals in the prem and he is playing as a deep midfielder.
*Rosco omitted that word, but it would have made his point appear quite rational if he had included it.
I also think Gerrard played a big part in Sterlings performance. Sterling was quiet in the first half and I think Gerrard took it upon himself to bring him into the game by playing attacking passes he could run on to, which coincided with him starting to beat his marker.
The biggest problem is that he is playing too deep, and he doesn't have a lot to work with up front. Rosco was actually quite right when he mentioned that (some*) managers tend to stick to one strategy / formation / system that worked for them in the past rather than building the formation around the players. At the moment, Rodgers is trying to copy Swansea and that means Gerrard is being played out of position. Obviously Lucas being injured is not helping, and why Kenny and Rodgers both chose not to buy a backup is a mystery to me, but in my opinion Gerrard should be closer to the net and the leg work should be done by other players. We have one player in the team who has a proven track record of scoring goals in the prem and he is playing as a deep midfielder.
*Rosco omitted that word, but it would have made his point appear quite rational if he had included it.
Mate, you could've written all that in one sentence - Gerrard needs to play the attacking mid! ;-)
But no matter, some good points there. You've got it slightly wrong about how BR sets up the midfield though. He explained in it some details when he had that conference with the supports groups:
Essentially, in ideal conditions, i.e. with players who understand and can play the system, he has one central midfielder who sits in front of the back four. He sits and dictates the game. The other two midfielders, flanking the CM, are more mobile and move up and down the park, attacking and tracking back as necessary.
For Liverpool, Lucas is obviously meant to be the sitting midfielder. Because he's injured, as you've all guessed, Allen is now the sitting mid.
Against Arsenal, Rodgers played this "one-two" formation, with Gerrard and Sahin the more forward midfielders. We all saw what happened there. Big gaps between the forward midfielders and Allen which Arsenal exploited. Rodgers said Sahin wasn't quite up to it yet.
So, realising he doesn't currently have the players to play one-two, he switched it to two-one, in that there are two sitting midfielders and one more attacking. This is where you were spot on; Allen and Gerrard became the deep lying mids, with Shelvey more forward.
Should Stevie have played more forward? Probably. The problem is Shelvey is an attacking midfielder, not a holding one either, and also as you pointed out, common thinking is that Gerrard can play the more disciplined deeper role.
Personally I think Gerrard and Shelvey play the same position, and it should be one or the other.
Question is, who do you bring in for the other deeper spot while lucas in injured and sahin not up to speed? Hendo?????
It's a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I do think his best is behind him and that we could build a better midfield unit without him. However, I don't want him to go yet, right now he is one of only 2 players who can turn a game completely on it's head in seconds.
If he's struggling like this come christmas then I would be worried. Right now, I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, somewhat, that injuries and now a new system have hampered his form. We'll never see the Gerrard of old, but he still looks like one of very few who can do something attack-wise.
I'd be a damn sight happier though if he stops giving it away so cheaply, not every ball can be a glorious through ball/30 yard pass to feet.
I'd be a damn sight happier though if he stops giving it away so cheaply, not every ball can be a glorious through ball/30 yard pass to feet.
Gerrard should be played up front/AM. He's pants in midfield and, seeing as he's 1 of the very few players we've got who can hit a barn door, he should be playing nearer the oppo's box.
That formation we play, the front 3 have got to be lethal and ours are a million miles away. I mean, our midfield offers nothing in terms of goal threat; Lucas (when he played) is Lucas, Allen is neat and tidy but its hardly stuff that hurts the opposition though is it, Gerrard is well off his game, Sahin being played in, Shelvey middle of the pitch. So, apart from Johnson getting forward (and then leaving gaping holes at the back), we are totally reliant on Borini, Suarez, Sterling and Downing off the bench. Obviously, Sterling has been superb but Borini doesn't look to be all that, he certainly isn't going to weigh in with a hatful anyway, and, as we know, Suarez tucks away 1 chance in 7 apart from a couple of mad days a season when everything he touches turns to gold.
So, yeah, the 'Stevie further forward' argument works for me as well.
That formation we play, the front 3 have got to be lethal and ours are a million miles away. I mean, our midfield offers nothing in terms of goal threat; Lucas (when he played) is Lucas, Allen is neat and tidy but its hardly stuff that hurts the opposition though is it, Gerrard is well off his game, Sahin being played in, Shelvey middle of the pitch. So, apart from Johnson getting forward (and then leaving gaping holes at the back), we are totally reliant on Borini, Suarez, Sterling and Downing off the bench. Obviously, Sterling has been superb but Borini doesn't look to be all that, he certainly isn't going to weigh in with a hatful anyway, and, as we know, Suarez tucks away 1 chance in 7 apart from a couple of mad days a season when everything he touches turns to gold.
So, yeah, the 'Stevie further forward' argument works for me as well.
Is Gerrard really struggling as much as people are suggesting.
I'm heavily in favour of a number of points dmishra has made and refugee's post was spot on. Years ago we had Garcia whom I described as a luxury player - someone who could make something happen but when we couldn't hold the ball well and didn't have many chances he could also be incredibly frustrating. Right now Gerrard is the one endeavouring to make something happen and - along with Suarez - looks the only player to be thinking we need to get the ball in the net. Sure, he makes mistakes (just like Suarez) because he's trying to create something but not as often as Garcia did.
I personally don't think he's been playing anywhere near as badly as many have suggested and he's a long way from being the worst performed player on the pitch. Dmish stole these words before I could write them days ago but Gerrard has played in numerous systems for Liverpool and England over the years and been excellent in all of them. He's got no problems working out how to play in this one. That said, we take that long to move the ball at times it's beyond tedious; we look far better when we move it more quickly.
More of the same needed from Stevie but this time on the inside of the post.
I'm heavily in favour of a number of points dmishra has made and refugee's post was spot on. Years ago we had Garcia whom I described as a luxury player - someone who could make something happen but when we couldn't hold the ball well and didn't have many chances he could also be incredibly frustrating. Right now Gerrard is the one endeavouring to make something happen and - along with Suarez - looks the only player to be thinking we need to get the ball in the net. Sure, he makes mistakes (just like Suarez) because he's trying to create something but not as often as Garcia did.
I personally don't think he's been playing anywhere near as badly as many have suggested and he's a long way from being the worst performed player on the pitch. Dmish stole these words before I could write them days ago but Gerrard has played in numerous systems for Liverpool and England over the years and been excellent in all of them. He's got no problems working out how to play in this one. That said, we take that long to move the ball at times it's beyond tedious; we look far better when we move it more quickly.
More of the same needed from Stevie but this time on the inside of the post.
I don't know if he's playing that badly but in comparative terms I think he's starting to look underwhelming compared to those playing number 10 type positions with our rivals. Players like Modric, Kagawa, Cazorla, Toure all seem to have composure or energy that Gerrard appears to be short on at the moment. Also when he has been asked to play in a deeper role I don't think that has suited him since he was a much younger man in a much different system, I sorta agree with Rafa that he is best not played as a deeper central midfielder because he's better utilised further forward and perhaps can't be trusted with the defensive responsibilities. He's also a victim of his own high standards.
I'm not sure if it's a fitness, age, loss of form or he's struggling with the new style of play and team mates but he's not making an impact and is guilty of losing possession a fair bit. I'm starting to think Gerrard could be tried as one of the front 3 where gambling to make a breakthrough is more acceptable or alternatively one of Lucas / Henderson need to play with Allen behind him. Things will start to improve though anyway once the team gets used to each other and the way we're playing.
I'm not sure if it's a fitness, age, loss of form or he's struggling with the new style of play and team mates but he's not making an impact and is guilty of losing possession a fair bit. I'm starting to think Gerrard could be tried as one of the front 3 where gambling to make a breakthrough is more acceptable or alternatively one of Lucas / Henderson need to play with Allen behind him. Things will start to improve though anyway once the team gets used to each other and the way we're playing.
I really don't think we can blame the system, but I do think we can blame where he is being played in that system. SG was kryptonite in the midfield last season too. We struggled in loads of games when he went in there. Our midfield was at its best last season at the beginning when he was injured and we had Lucas/ Adam/ Hendo/ Spearing occupying the midfield positions. As soon as SG was introduced, we struggled. We need to play him further forward.
second thoughts?????
Stevie was excellent yesterday, his passing superb and what a great finish on the left foot.
Glad to have him back, I really like him allen and JonJo together
Yeah, it's amazing what a break can do.
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