Poll Firmino - Is he good enough?
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Not really. I form opinions based on data and evidence. My view on Firmino was entirely correct; he didn't score enough goals.
However, like any rational, intelligent person, when the data-set changes, and suggests a different conclusion, it is entirely normal for that view to be revised.
Should Firmino's performances and effectiveness dip, and his crucial stats - scoring goals - change for the worse, I will again be entitled to use that in order to formulate a new conclusion.
This is quite normal for any kind of analytical process, and making glib, emotive statements about "right" or "wrong" has no value in an ongoing analysis in which observed results change.
Hopefully this should help clear up some confusion among our less bright posters who might be less used to dealing with empirical evidence when forming an opinion.
That was an attempt to lighten the naturally stat-heavy, objective, impersonal scientific approach I usually adopt, with an easy to understand, colloquial and simplified concluding statement for the layman.
I like to have a common touch.
For the brainless and not the true believer the simplest of game is still beautiful. Ping it to Lukaku and he scores a fluke and Lukaku is the king of the universe.
You called?
Again, it would be much easier to say " I was wrong".
Roberto Firmino believes his commitment to “give absolutely everything” has helped him establish a close bond with Liverpool fans.
The Brazil international, who is in the form of his life, scored his 17th goal of the season in the thrilling 4-3 victory over Manchester City.
Firmino sets the tone for Jurgen Klopp's side with his work ethic and he says that was drummed him after he joined German outfit Hoffenheim at the age of 18.
“It’s natural, of course. It comes from the cradle almost,” he said.
“I think though that the four years I spent in Germany changed my mentality a great deal. It made me become a lot harder.
“I work on the basis that I’m never satisfied. I always want to do better and the feeling that I’m never satisfied is my way of motivating myself to be the best I can be.”
On his relationship with Kopites, he added: “I always treat people well. I alway stop, it’s never a problem when people want to speak with me. That’s OK with me - I’m never rude to anyone.
“And then on the field I give absolutely everything, I play with all of my heart and that’s why I think it is.
“I’m always a happy person, I’m always smiling. I’m at peace and I think it’s important that you are.”
Firmino, who is set to be offered a lucrative new contract, has started 28 of Liverpool's 33 games in all competitions so far this season.
Keeping him fit is going to be crucial to the Reds' hope of glory between now and May. The No 9 is desperate to ensure that he lasts the pace.
“I prepare very intensively for all games, physically and mentally,” Firmino told Liverpoolfc.com
“I’m always eating the right food, I make sure I eat well, and I believe in God so I pray before all games that I’ll be alright. So I prepare on all levels for games.”
Klopp recently described Firmino as the “engine” of his Liverpool side and the 26-year-old says he owes a debt of gratitude to the Reds boss.
“I like to work hard,” he added.
“I like to drop back and help defend because that then turns into attack, turns into goals, so I don’t mind being called the ‘engine’ of the team.
“I’ve learned a huge amount with the manager, it’s a real honour to be with him. We have a good relationship, it’s excellent.”
The Brazil international, who is in the form of his life, scored his 17th goal of the season in the thrilling 4-3 victory over Manchester City.
Firmino sets the tone for Jurgen Klopp's side with his work ethic and he says that was drummed him after he joined German outfit Hoffenheim at the age of 18.
“It’s natural, of course. It comes from the cradle almost,” he said.
“I think though that the four years I spent in Germany changed my mentality a great deal. It made me become a lot harder.
“I work on the basis that I’m never satisfied. I always want to do better and the feeling that I’m never satisfied is my way of motivating myself to be the best I can be.”
On his relationship with Kopites, he added: “I always treat people well. I alway stop, it’s never a problem when people want to speak with me. That’s OK with me - I’m never rude to anyone.
“And then on the field I give absolutely everything, I play with all of my heart and that’s why I think it is.
“I’m always a happy person, I’m always smiling. I’m at peace and I think it’s important that you are.”
Firmino, who is set to be offered a lucrative new contract, has started 28 of Liverpool's 33 games in all competitions so far this season.
Keeping him fit is going to be crucial to the Reds' hope of glory between now and May. The No 9 is desperate to ensure that he lasts the pace.
“I prepare very intensively for all games, physically and mentally,” Firmino told Liverpoolfc.com
“I’m always eating the right food, I make sure I eat well, and I believe in God so I pray before all games that I’ll be alright. So I prepare on all levels for games.”
Klopp recently described Firmino as the “engine” of his Liverpool side and the 26-year-old says he owes a debt of gratitude to the Reds boss.
“I like to work hard,” he added.
“I like to drop back and help defend because that then turns into attack, turns into goals, so I don’t mind being called the ‘engine’ of the team.
“I’ve learned a huge amount with the manager, it’s a real honour to be with him. We have a good relationship, it’s excellent.”
Easy? I wasn't wrong, so the perceived difficulty of it isn't relevant.
Heh, it's easier to post half arsed myopic nonsense than, say, actually address the points of a few lengthy, well constructed and thoroughly explained posts.
"We don't need more goals". Let's talk about this other great idea from last season, shall we?
We scored 78 goal last season, 2 less than City and 24 more than United.
Anyway it doesn't allways come down to the amount of goals. It is too easy. Noone is overly impressed with Uniteds attacking form this season, still they have been able to score some goals late in games to have a host of nice results.
Our form fell apart over the January period last season. Firmino was brilliant in the fall, but lost some steam in the spring. However, the one that should back him up on the scoring Charts (Studge) had a mental breakdown or something similar over the Whole season, so it left us with Origi as the viable candidate to either give Bobby a much needed rest, or even support him from time to time. Origi had a dip in form himself, Mane and Coutinho were injured or in Afcon and as a result of many factors neither the Club nor Bobby managed to be as efficient or good during a couple of spring months. The easy solution is then to criticize Firmino for not scoring enough, and point fingers at those scoring at other clubs to prove the point. However, those others had total different environment and causes for scoring those goals. A simple solution to all Our problems would then be to sell Firmino and buy Morata or Lukaku or whoever top goalscorer we could get our hands on during the summer. Instead we went for Salah who was also criticized for not being a good finisher. Still the attack we have now seem to work well without a Natural finisher, as we play it to different strengths. I am scared to loose one of them to a injury now. It doesn't mean that our approach to attack is more right than pinging the ball to Lukaku, or a Costa or a Ibra or whoever was mentioned as the only correct solution last season. But I admire the way we play and I believe that this is a more sustainable way of attacking, given the right material.
The thing is, its perfectly in its place for a half arsed mypopic nonsense respons, as thats all it deserves.
Brendan has been calling Firmino all sorts of names, claiming he's not good enough to start for us and that he shouldnt be our main "striker".
Now that everyone and his dog can see that he's one of the better forwards in the league, its suddenly only about the amount of goals he scored.
For some people it just seems like the worst possible outcome in this world if you have to admit that you were wrong.
Its dead funny.
The last part in your post is lost on me mate, sorry.
I'll simplify for you:
He scored 11 league goals last season, and 10 the season before - that's not good enough.
He's scored 1o league goals so far this season, and if he keeps up that level of finishing and ends up with 15-20 league goals - that will be good enough.
Hope this helps.
The brainfart is then that the one you allways cried out should play ahead of him scored 3 and 4 League goals the same seasons.
My main point was that we needed to buy a new striker, who could score 15-20 league goals a season.
If Firmino can do that regularly. and improve on his previous two seasons, that becomes less urgent, although given I don't rate Sturridge, Ings or Solanke, we need one anyway.
You have had quite a few characteristisc regarding Firmino for that to be your main point mate. But I already tried to explain that football is more complex than a striker scoring 15-20 goals. You have mentioned Costa and your bottomless admiration for him as he can score 15-20 goals. So you say now that we in the summer should have sold Firmino for Costa if we could have got him. Which I disagree with. Firmino, in addition to his goals, add more to our team. His contribution is worth more than the 5 extra goals you cry about all the time.
Having trouble admitting he was wrong might be something he picked up at work.
Maybe we'll get an apology in a few years, tucked away in a thread in the "Other Sports" Forum.
I'm so sick and tired of Firmino and Brendan being linked, whenever we discuss Firmino it always end up with Brendan and his ever changing story of irrational dislike turning into semi rational criticism wrapped in faux I told you so's. Who gives a fuck; Firmino is an absolute joy to watch, and he's currently second only to Kane in the league in terms of performing strikers. It's taken him some time to get up to speed, but he's absolutely everything I'd want in a striker right now, strong, skillful, hard working, unselfish, able to score some outrageous goals, able to produce some outrageous assists, and a massive goofball, he's superb.
We should be talking about that whenever he scores and plays well, not the last three years of Brendan's, valid and invalid criticisms, and regular revisionism.
We should be talking about that whenever he scores and plays well, not the last three years of Brendan's, valid and invalid criticisms, and regular revisionism.
Nope. You said Sturridge was better, then changed your argument when others proved you wrong on that count.
A fit Sturridge is a better finisher and would play in any team.
Sadly, as I suspected, his injuries have taken a toll, so even if he is still good at finishing, he can't actually run anymore.
Studge goals over the years:
10/11 - 8 goals
11/12 - 11 goals
12/13 - 11 goals
13/14 - 21 goals
14/15 - 4 goals
15/16 - 8 goals
16/17 - 3 goals
17/18 - 2 goals
For a "prolific finisher" those stats says a lot about more than running.
Weird thread this. He's in great form and that's brilliant, we all love it. But if you think that justifies the forced, unworthy praise that somehow came his way when he didn't deserve it, you're wrong. He's been through spells where he's been shite. He's in ace form now, I doubt you'd find anyone who'd disagree. But this pathetic I told you so stuff is nauseating.
Bit like Can. Good game last weekend against City, how could we possibly let him go???? Erm, remember the completely ineffective games before last week.
Talk about kneejerk.
Firmino is in outstanding form right now. Long may it continue. Thing is, it might not. And then there'll be a thread on here about why we need an alternative to what he offers. Like there should be.
Bit like Can. Good game last weekend against City, how could we possibly let him go???? Erm, remember the completely ineffective games before last week.
Talk about kneejerk.
Firmino is in outstanding form right now. Long may it continue. Thing is, it might not. And then there'll be a thread on here about why we need an alternative to what he offers. Like there should be.
Yeah, they also say "injuries"
I wish I could like this post twice. But I take the virulent, frothing desire to scramble to be the first to post in a "I told you so Brendan" thread as a sort of weird compliment, and my opinion being so important to people whose opinion doesn't matter to me at all, is quite funny. It's a bit like Gulliver's Travels in many ways.
Anyway, it's so very rare, I quite enjoy seeing them have their Swiftian fun. Even if they're still wrong.
Even a fit Sturridge is not as good a fit in a Klopp team as Firmino is.
Sure, brush away his shortcommings with an excuse. He has been injured, but has similar scoring stats as injury proned Andy Caroll.
Still he has played enough games over the last Seasons to show he don't contribute with the end Product that we look for from a player that only have the end Product.
In a simple black and white world you could have had a point. But our latest seasons have been indifferent. We have changed styles, Incorporated New players, lost key player through injury and Afcon and abysmal form and god knows why. The only one constantly showing up and giving his best is Bobby. No rest. No rotation. Always on the teamsheet and put out wide or deep or up front or wherever we need him to put the best available team out there. That some people manage to see the greatness and prais him through inefficient spell doesn't mean they are wrong. Nope. It means that they see what they see, and that they know that inefficient spells will always pop up. And especially for players in his position.
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