Fiorentina v Liverpool

[Tinto]

Ah well, we got plenty of group matches to put this right.

I normally get all het up when we lose but my mind kept wondering to Sunday... hopefully the lads have got their bad performance out of the way tonight.

The worry for me is that we can't seem to keep things tight anymore and we seem to be far too open. It's great that there's goals in this team and being open and expansive is a reason for that, but I do miss how we used to stifle the life out of teams.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36151.msg953996#msg953996 date=1254257229]
if Agger isnt back for Sunday that defence will be ripped apart


[/quote]

Agger has played one games in the reserves, if he does play on Sunday, the defense could well be ripped apart.

 

[Preston]

Pickin Aurelio was a clear mistake.

it took until the second half, with Florentina happy to sit back and soak up pressure, got aurelio to come into the game.

our defence is also shambolic at the moment and it's now a variety of mistakes leading to goals being conceded i.e. tonight - poor synergy across the back four for the first. (second goal was actually very very good in terms of the cross and finish)

Tonight was a wasted opportunity to consolidate or nick the win. Rafa's tactics were undone by his selection. Fair enough we have other games to remedy the position, but this loss should have been avoided. Fact.

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36151.msg953994#msg953994 date=1254257171]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=36151.msg953983#msg953983 date=1254256914]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36151.msg953978#msg953978 date=1254256789]
[quote author=Dee link=topic=36151.msg953966#msg953966 date=1254256575]
Well done Fiorentina.

Just goes to show how much we need Mascher on the bigger games, especially away from from home. Rafa needs to find an answer before he leaves next summer.
[/quote]

Indeed it does. Anyone still quoting Lucas' 'successful tackles' stat might want to look at how many of those tackles follow him losing the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not scapegoating, but it needs saying. Masher is vital on nights like this.
[/quote]

But if masher is not available, what you gonna do?
[/quote]

Play Stevie back there. Without Mascher we are just not good enough in that position without him.
[/quote]

True, I guess Rafa expected them to park the bus and wanted Stevie up front to help open their defences, Aureilo to spread the passes and Lucas to hold the midfield. Guess it went a bit wrong.

 

[dee]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=36151.msg953998#msg953998 date=1254257295]

[/quote]

What is going on with those feet!!!

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36151.msg953996#msg953996 date=1254257229]
if Agger isnt back for Sunday that defence will be ripped apart


[/quote]

your head's gonna get ripped apart if you don't shut the fuck up.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36151.msg953993#msg953993 date=1254257156]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36151.msg953980#msg953980 date=1254256884]
Beat Lyon and Fiorentina at home and beat Debrecen away = 12pts.
Why does anyone think we wont qualify.
The nature of the group format means you can lose 2 maybe even 3 games and still qualify. We will easily qualify.

Well played la viola. Very good team performance. We were awful first half and the ref was a shocking old school homer.
Ah well. Onwards and upwards.
One game closer to Aquilani and Agger time.
[/quote]

Three teams could finish with 12pts in this group.
[/quote]They wont. Lyon will beat Fiorentina at home and get at least a point away.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Preston link=topic=36151.msg954000#msg954000 date=1254257330]
Pickin Aurelio was a clear mistake.

it took until the second half, with Florentina happy to sit back and soak up pressure, got aurelio to come into the game.

our defence is also shambolic at the moment and it's now a variety of mistakes leading to goals being conceded i.e. tonight - poor synergy across the back four for the first. (second goal was actually very very good in terms of the cross and finish)

Tonight was a wasted opportunity to consolidate or nick the win. Rafa's tactics were undone by his selection. Fair enough we have other games to remedy the position, but this loss should have been avoided. Fact.
[/quote]

The defence wasn't exactly 'shambolic'. The opposition played a fine first half. It is possible you know, outside of the comic book world of rage and his mate.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36151.msg954005#msg954005 date=1254257398]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36151.msg953993#msg953993 date=1254257156]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36151.msg953980#msg953980 date=1254256884]
Beat Lyon and Fiorentina at home and beat Debrecen away = 12pts.
Why does anyone think we wont qualify.
The nature of the group format means you can lose 2 maybe even 3 games and still qualify. We will easily qualify.

Well played la viola. Very good team performance. We were awful first half and the ref was a shocking old school homer.
Ah well. Onwards and upwards.
One game closer to Aquilani and Agger time.
[/quote]

Three teams could finish with 12pts in this group.
[/quote]They wont. Lyon will beat Fiorentina at home and get at least a point away.
[/quote]

Lyon have already beaten Fiorentina away - and, having seen that match, would you really bet against Fiorentina at home?

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36151.msg954006#msg954006 date=1254257443]
[quote author=Preston link=topic=36151.msg954000#msg954000 date=1254257330]
Pickin Aurelio was a clear mistake.

it took until the second half, with Florentina happy to sit back and soak up pressure, got aurelio to come into the game.

our defence is also shambolic at the moment and it's now a variety of mistakes leading to goals being conceded i.e. tonight - poor synergy across the back four for the first. (second goal was actually very very good in terms of the cross and finish)

Tonight was a wasted opportunity to consolidate or nick the win. Rafa's tactics were undone by his selection. Fair enough we have other games to remedy the position, but this loss should have been avoided. Fact.
[/quote]

The defence wasn't exactly 'shambolic'. The opposition played a fine first half. It is possible you know, outside of the comic book world of rage and his mate.
[/quote]

Who's that?

 

[spider-Neil]

the real pisser is the italians play the wipping boys home and away so thats a guaranteed six points where as our games with lyon are going to be tight (you'd think).

 

[rage]

a 19 year old kid ripped us apart. we wouldn't even play a 19 year old in a game like this.

we had chances early in the second half but credit to them they soaked it up and in the end it was a convincing win.

arrogance or stupidity in our lineup tonight. gotta have a different plan for the weekend

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=36151.msg954008#msg954008 date=1254257537]

Who's that?
[/quote]

Funny you should jump on that! ;D

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36151.msg953999#msg953999 date=1254257310]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36151.msg953996#msg953996 date=1254257229]
if Agger isnt back for Sunday that defence will be ripped apart


[/quote]

Agger has played one games in the reserves, if he does play on Sunday, the defense could well be ripped apart.
[/quote]

Not to mention the fact that Skrtel has done better than Agger against Dogbreath in the past.

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36151.msg954011#msg954011 date=1254257601]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=36151.msg954008#msg954008 date=1254257537]

Who's that?
[/quote]

Funny you should jump on that! ;D
[/quote]

;D









I'm not his mate.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36151.msg954010#msg954010 date=1254257560]
a 19 year old kid ripped us apart. we wouldn't even play a 19 year old in a game like this.

we had chances early in the second half but credit to them they soaked it up and in the end it was a convincing win.

arrogance or stupidity in our lineup tonight. gotta have a different plan for the weekend
[/quote]

Well, why don't you tell us what that plan might be? Go on, spell it out, any time between now and Sunday, then we can respond to your judgement. Make it nice and detailed, genius. Clock's ticking.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Why do so many intelligent people let themselves get wound up by Rage? He clearly loves the attention, so just ignore him.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36151.msg954007#msg954007 date=1254257521]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36151.msg954005#msg954005 date=1254257398]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36151.msg953993#msg953993 date=1254257156]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36151.msg953980#msg953980 date=1254256884]
Beat Lyon and Fiorentina at home and beat Debrecen away = 12pts.
Why does anyone think we wont qualify.
The nature of the group format means you can lose 2 maybe even 3 games and still qualify. We will easily qualify.

Well played la viola. Very good team performance. We were awful first half and the ref was a shocking old school homer.
Ah well. Onwards and upwards.
One game closer to Aquilani and Agger time.
[/quote]

Three teams could finish with 12pts in this group.
[/quote]They wont. Lyon will beat Fiorentina at home and get at least a point away.
[/quote]

Lyon have already beaten Fiorentina away - and, having seen that match, would you really bet against Fiorentina at home?

[/quote]So Lyon won IN Lyon? Yes i think Lyon will beat Fiorentina. I think if there was any lethargy to be had there wont be now.
We upped our game second half and Fiorentina had no answer, even though we werent at our best. Lyon will go there prepared and beat them easily.
I also think we'll go old school in Lyon and get at least a point.
Not 1 single cell of my being thinks we wont qualify.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36151.msg954014#msg954014 date=1254257638]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36151.msg953999#msg953999 date=1254257310]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36151.msg953996#msg953996 date=1254257229]
if Agger isnt back for Sunday that defence will be ripped apart


[/quote]

Agger has played one games in the reserves, if he does play on Sunday, the defense could well be ripped apart.
[/quote]

Not to mention the fact that Skrtel has done better than Agger against Dogbreath in the past.
[/quote]

;D we conceeded 7 goals to them last season

Skrtel is playing like shite

 

[Preston]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36151.msg954006#msg954006 date=1254257443]
[quote author=Preston link=topic=36151.msg954000#msg954000 date=1254257330]
Pickin Aurelio was a clear mistake.

it took until the second half, with Florentina happy to sit back and soak up pressure, got aurelio to come into the game.

our defence is also shambolic at the moment and it's now a variety of mistakes leading to goals being conceded i.e. tonight - poor synergy across the back four for the first. (second goal was actually very very good in terms of the cross and finish)

Tonight was a wasted opportunity to consolidate or nick the win. Rafa's tactics were undone by his selection. Fair enough we have other games to remedy the position, but this loss should have been avoided. Fact.
[/quote]

The defence wasn't exactly 'shambolic'. The opposition played a fine first half. It is possible you know, outside of the comic book world of rage and his mate.
[/quote]

okay, pick an alternative word to describe a defence that has leaked goals this season. in the first half almost every florentina attack was threatening. it was wave after wave against us as there was minimal protection from the midfield.

with chelsea at the weekend, this performance couldn't have been much worse and it was obvious after 20 mins to drop gerrard back in to midfield and put aurelio out wide.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36151.msg954010#msg954010 date=1254257560]
a 19 year old kid ripped us apart. we wouldn't even play a 19 year old in a game like this.

we had chances early in the second half but credit to them they soaked it up and in the end it was a convincing win.

arrogance or stupidity in our lineup tonight. gotta have a different plan for the weekend
[/quote]

the only reason he played is because the main striker is suspended.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=36151.msg954020#msg954020 date=1254257873]
Why do so many intelligent people let themselves get wound up by Rage? He clearly loves the attention, so just ignore him.
[/quote]

As Edmund Burke said - and I'm paraphrasing - smack the feckers before they do any real damage.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=36151.msg954001#msg954001 date=1254257330]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36151.msg953994#msg953994 date=1254257171]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=36151.msg953983#msg953983 date=1254256914]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36151.msg953978#msg953978 date=1254256789]
[quote author=Dee link=topic=36151.msg953966#msg953966 date=1254256575]
Well done Fiorentina.

Just goes to show how much we need Mascher on the bigger games, especially away from from home. Rafa needs to find an answer before he leaves next summer.
[/quote]

Indeed it does. Anyone still quoting Lucas' 'successful tackles' stat might want to look at how many of those tackles follow him losing the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not scapegoating, but it needs saying. Masher is vital on nights like this.
[/quote]

But if masher is not available, what you gonna do?
[/quote]

Play Stevie back there. Without Mascher we are just not good enough in that position without him.
[/quote]

True, I guess Rafa expected them to park the bus and wanted Stevie up front to help open their defences, Aureilo to spread the passes and Lucas to hold the midfield. Guess it went a bit wrong.
[/quote]

I'm sure that was indeed the plan, and maybe if we'd come out hard at them in the first half we'd have had more of a shot at making it work. Instead, we surrendered the momentum of the game and couldn't really get it back after half-time. Things should have been changed around more, and a lot earlier, than they were.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36151.msg954010#msg954010 date=1254257560]
a 19 year old kid ripped us apart. we wouldn't even play a 19 year old in a game like this.

we had chances early in the second half but credit to them they soaked it up and in the end it was a convincing win.

arrogance or stupidity in our lineup tonight. gotta have a different plan for the weekend
[/quote]

N'Gog scored for us last season against PSV, when he was 19.

 

[Hamaan]

this makes me sad.


very sad indeed.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=36151.msg954033#msg954033 date=1254258102]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36151.msg954010#msg954010 date=1254257560]
a 19 year old kid ripped us apart. we wouldn't even play a 19 year old in a game like this.

we had chances early in the second half but credit to them they soaked it up and in the end it was a convincing win.

arrogance or stupidity in our lineup tonight. gotta have a different plan for the weekend
[/quote]

N'Gog scored for us last season against PSV, when he was 19.
[/quote]PWNED!

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=36151.msg954033#msg954033 date=1254258102]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36151.msg954010#msg954010 date=1254257560]
a 19 year old kid ripped us apart. we wouldn't even play a 19 year old in a game like this.

we had chances early in the second half but credit to them they soaked it up and in the end it was a convincing win.

arrogance or stupidity in our lineup tonight. gotta have a different plan for the weekend
[/quote]

N'Gog scored for us last season against PSV, when he was 19.
[/quote]

You don't expect the idiot to know anything about the club, do you? 😉

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=36151.msg953983#msg953983 date=1254256914]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36151.msg953978#msg953978 date=1254256789]
[quote author=Dee link=topic=36151.msg953966#msg953966 date=1254256575]
Well done Fiorentina.

Just goes to show how much we need Mascher on the bigger games, especially away from from home. Rafa needs to find an answer before he leaves next summer.
[/quote]

Indeed it does. Anyone still quoting Lucas' 'successful tackles' stat might want to look at how many of those tackles follow him losing the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not scapegoating, but it needs saying. Masher is vital on nights like this.
[/quote]

But if masher is not available, what you gonna do?
[/quote]

As much as I liked Aurelio in midfield at times today, I don't think this was the game to be experimenting with the centre pairing. He simply doesn't offer enough when the opponent has the ball. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see him played in midfield again, because he displayed a superb range of passing which is largely wasted on the left side of defence. In a game of this magnitude however, I think we should have gone with Lucas and Gerrard.

Riera (who I was quite amazed wasn't used today) could quite easily have played the left side of midfield with Yossi further forward. Yossi will inevitably get caught out of position from time to time, such is his tendency to drift inside from that position. The line-up and formation we played was far too vulnerable to the counter-attack. This threat is mitigated somewhat with Mascherano covering, but not with Lucas or Aurelio, particularly when there are so many holes to exploit on either wing.

I agreed with Gordon Strachan on the whole tonight, in that the centre-backs made Insua look bad by stepping up at a time when it was extremely risky to do so. If you can see the danger, sometime it's better just to deal with it, rather than rely on the offside rule to get you out of trouble.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=Preston link=topic=36151.msg954024#msg954024 date=1254257929]

okay, pick an alternative word to describe a defence that has leaked goals this season. in the first half almost every florentina attack was threatening. it was wave after wave against us as there was minimal protection from the midfield.

with chelsea at the weekend, this performance couldn't have been much worse and it was obvious after 20 mins to drop gerrard back in to midfield and put aurelio out wide.
[/quote]

If you're worried about the lack of protection for the defense by the midfield then Stevie isn't the answer anymore. When it's a big match and there's a lot at stake then, sure, you see some crunching tackles by Stevie but they're becoming fewer and farer between. He's not really that type of player anymore.

We do need Stevie in midfield to help get the ball from defense into attack but defensively he hasn't been great when he has played in central midfield this season.