Fiorentina v Liverpool

[Preston]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36151.msg954058#msg954058 date=1254258516]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=36151.msg953983#msg953983 date=1254256914]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36151.msg953978#msg953978 date=1254256789]
[quote author=Dee link=topic=36151.msg953966#msg953966 date=1254256575]
Well done Fiorentina.

Just goes to show how much we need Mascher on the bigger games, especially away from from home. Rafa needs to find an answer before he leaves next summer.
[/quote]

Indeed it does. Anyone still quoting Lucas' 'successful tackles' stat might want to look at how many of those tackles follow him losing the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not scapegoating, but it needs saying. Masher is vital on nights like this.
[/quote]

But if masher is not available, what you gonna do?
[/quote]

As much as I liked Aurelio in midfield at times today, I don't think this was the game to be experimenting with the centre pairing. He simply doesn't offer enough when the opponent has the ball. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see him played in midfield again, because he displayed a superb range of passing which is largely wasted on the left side of defence. In a game of this magnitude however, I think we should have gone with Lucas and Gerrard.

Riera (who I was quite amazed wasn't used today) could quite easily have played the left side of midfield with Yossi further forward. Yossi will inevitably get caught out of position from time to time, such is his tendency to drift inside from that position. The line-up and formation we played was far too vulnerable to the counter-attack. This threat is mitigated somewhat with Mascherano covering, but not with Lucas or Aurelio, particularly when there are so many holes to exploit on either wing.

I agreed with Gordon Strachan on the whole tonight, in that the centre-backs made Insua look bad by stepping up at a time when it was extremely risky to do so. If you can see the danger, sometime it's better just to deal with it, rather than rely on the offside rule to get you out of trouble.
[/quote]

3 out of the 4 defenders stepped up in unison. 1 didn't and it led to the goal. bad decision by insua

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Hamaan link=topic=36151.msg954035#msg954035 date=1254258116]
this makes me sad.


very sad indeed.
[/quote]

I think just disappointed ... The 1st half 'effort level' was atrocious.

 

[Skullflower]

nucka looked alright.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36151.msg954066#msg954066 date=1254258659]
[quote author=Preston link=topic=36151.msg954024#msg954024 date=1254257929]

okay, pick an alternative word to describe a defence that has leaked goals this season. in the first half almost every florentina attack was threatening. it was wave after wave against us as there was minimal protection from the midfield.

with chelsea at the weekend, this performance couldn't have been much worse and it was obvious after 20 mins to drop gerrard back in to midfield and put aurelio out wide.
[/quote]

If you're worried about the lack of protection for the defense by the midfield then Stevie isn't the answer anymore. When it's a big match and there's a lot at stake then, sure, you see some crunching tackles by Stevie but they're becoming fewer and farer between. He's not really that type of player anymore.

We do need Stevie in midfield to help get the ball from defense into attack but defensively he hasn't been great when he has played in central midfield this season.
[/quote]

Even so, it would have been a better option than what we saw tonight. The way to get him back into the CM groove is to give him games there. Yossi can do a more than adequate job in the support role behind Torres.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=36151.msg954075#msg954075 date=1254258766]
nucka looked alright.
[/quote]

peach of a cross for gerrard.
to be honest we made enough chances to take a point out of that game.

 

[spider-Neil]

yossi should ever be made to play on either flank because he just isn't going to give the protection to the fullbacks

 

[Preston]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36151.msg954079#msg954079 date=1254258887]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36151.msg954066#msg954066 date=1254258659]
[quote author=Preston link=topic=36151.msg954024#msg954024 date=1254257929]

okay, pick an alternative word to describe a defence that has leaked goals this season. in the first half almost every florentina attack was threatening. it was wave after wave against us as there was minimal protection from the midfield.

with chelsea at the weekend, this performance couldn't have been much worse and it was obvious after 20 mins to drop gerrard back in to midfield and put aurelio out wide.
[/quote]

If you're worried about the lack of protection for the defense by the midfield then Stevie isn't the answer anymore. When it's a big match and there's a lot at stake then, sure, you see some crunching tackles by Stevie but they're becoming fewer and farer between. He's not really that type of player anymore.

We do need Stevie in midfield to help get the ball from defense into attack but defensively he hasn't been great when he has played in central midfield this season.
[/quote]

Even so, it would have been a better option than what we saw tonight. The way to get him back into the CM groove is to give him games there. Yossi can do a more than adequate job in the support role behind Torres.
[/quote]

that's what i was getting at Tinto - i dont think we needed a 'midfield destroyer' in there tonight but a pairing that could keep hold of the ball and pass it around retaining possession. it was a free ride for florentina in the first half and stevie would have changed that.

 

[Judge Jules]

I can't agree with that. On the contrary, Mascher would have been invaluable tonight, breaking up Fiorentina's growing control of the game in the first half and buying our more skilful players time and space to do their thing. In his absence Stevie's the only viable option.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Preston link=topic=36151.msg954068#msg954068 date=1254258674]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36151.msg954058#msg954058 date=1254258516]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=36151.msg953983#msg953983 date=1254256914]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=36151.msg953978#msg953978 date=1254256789]
[quote author=Dee link=topic=36151.msg953966#msg953966 date=1254256575]
Well done Fiorentina.

Just goes to show how much we need Mascher on the bigger games, especially away from from home. Rafa needs to find an answer before he leaves next summer.
[/quote]

Indeed it does. Anyone still quoting Lucas' 'successful tackles' stat might want to look at how many of those tackles follow him losing the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not scapegoating, but it needs saying. Masher is vital on nights like this.
[/quote]

But if masher is not available, what you gonna do?
[/quote]

As much as I liked Aurelio in midfield at times today, I don't think this was the game to be experimenting with the centre pairing. He simply doesn't offer enough when the opponent has the ball. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see him played in midfield again, because he displayed a superb range of passing which is largely wasted on the left side of defence. In a game of this magnitude however, I think we should have gone with Lucas and Gerrard.

Riera (who I was quite amazed wasn't used today) could quite easily have played the left side of midfield with Yossi further forward. Yossi will inevitably get caught out of position from time to time, such is his tendency to drift inside from that position. The line-up and formation we played was far too vulnerable to the counter-attack. This threat is mitigated somewhat with Mascherano covering, but not with Lucas or Aurelio, particularly when there are so many holes to exploit on either wing.

I agreed with Gordon Strachan on the whole tonight, in that the centre-backs made Insua look bad by stepping up at a time when it was extremely risky to do so. If you can see the danger, sometime it's better just to deal with it, rather than rely on the offside rule to get you out of trouble.
[/quote]

3 out of the 4 defenders stepped up in unison. 1 didn't and it led to the goal. bad decision by insua
[/quote]

I don't think it's that simple. Firstly, the right winger on Insua's side was well onside and progressing very quickly, and secondly, there was absolutely no pressure on the ball from either of the centre-backs. It was poor defending all round.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36151.msg954079#msg954079 date=1254258887]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36151.msg954066#msg954066 date=1254258659]
[quote author=Preston link=topic=36151.msg954024#msg954024 date=1254257929]

okay, pick an alternative word to describe a defence that has leaked goals this season. in the first half almost every florentina attack was threatening. it was wave after wave against us as there was minimal protection from the midfield.

with chelsea at the weekend, this performance couldn't have been much worse and it was obvious after 20 mins to drop gerrard back in to midfield and put aurelio out wide.
[/quote]

If you're worried about the lack of protection for the defense by the midfield then Stevie isn't the answer anymore. When it's a big match and there's a lot at stake then, sure, you see some crunching tackles by Stevie but they're becoming fewer and farer between. He's not really that type of player anymore.

We do need Stevie in midfield to help get the ball from defense into attack but defensively he hasn't been great when he has played in central midfield this season.
[/quote]

Even so, it would have been a better option than what we saw tonight. The way to get him back into the CM groove is to give him games there. Yossi can do a more than adequate job in the support role behind Torres.
[/quote]

Yes, of course for tonight Stevie would have been much better than Aurelio. I'm amazed that Rafa treated a CL match like a Carling Cup tie but that is preferable to him treating a league match like one.

Still, I can't see the future of our midfield being Aqualini and Stevie as Rafa has already talked up Aqualini being able to get forward more than Xabi and with Stevie not really liking doing the tracking back job of a central midfielder.

If Mascher is going to be sold and Lucas doesn't improve more then I can see us being in the market for a midfielder in the Summer.

 

[abbiedukes]

Just a minor bump on the road and an incentive and a guide as to where the tweaking should be done ahead of the Chelski game.
It was a poor performance yes, but we have to give credit to Fiorentina for showing up and making a point that this is europe we are playing in and there are no lesser teams anymore. We'll come out of this much stronger! Bring on Chelski!!!

Watch the goals;

http://www.liverpoolfcgoals.webs.com

 

[Buddha]

Fiorentina played bloody well tonight. Aggressive, inventive and tireless. They'll cause problems for any team playing like that.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Shite performance tonight.

I'm struggling to think of one player that had a semi decent game.

*Pepe not inc*

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36151.msg954099#msg954099 date=1254259430]
I can't agree with that. On the contrary, Mascher would have been invaluable tonight, breaking up Fiorentina's growing control of the game in the first half and buying our more skilful players time and space to do their thing. In his absence Stevie's the only viable option.
[/quote]

We definitely needed an in form Mascher tonight to snuff out any danger but we also needed everyone to play much better than they all did in that first half. I don't remember us being starved of the ball but our forward players just couldn't do anything well enough to mount any serious attacks.