Deadline day ...
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Sustainable in the long run
Nothing comes for free
Throw cash away
Try a different model
All handy buzzwords for a team that never wins anything
Sure. Buying expensive and give away for free, like Caroll, Downing, Markovic, Benteke and all others that doesn't add shit to the team will neither win you things.
I know that we won a lot 35 years ago, but it doesn't help is now. We actually have to adjust to the time we live in. We spend money now as well, but with other clubs being rich enough to only sell when you out insane money at the table, a different approach to player logistics can be wise. It got us Salah and AOC for what seem to be decent fees. Mane as well. VvD not so decent.
I've come to the reluctant conclusion that perhaps we didn't sign anyone to bolster our forward line, let alone Mahrez.
*soul-crushing disappoint awaits*
*soul-crushing disappoint awaits*
Lets see this summer. I doubt Klopp is the type of manager not to make a fuss if he has his hands tied.
If he says all the money from the Coutinho sale and whatnot is at his disposal, I dont see a reason to why he would say that if it wasnt true.
Not buying in January
The FSG used the Coutinho money to balance the book argument is a poor one.
Just backed up by a consistently low spend that has been maintained since FSG took over, with any large signings always off-set by an even larger sale.
Like Coutinho/ VVD, which, at the time, I said was a remarkably-timed coincidence, and would not result in us buying anyone else.
This kind of post is why Rurik is the best footy poster on here. Reasoned and intelligent.
I think most people would be happy if, a) we had told the little rat that he was under contract and he was going nowhere, or b) we had told the little rat that he was under contract and he was going nowhere unless we had a replacement ready to come in.
It's unforgiveable that a team in third place has weakened itself, whilst all around them have strenghtened to one degree or another.
It's unforgiveable that a team in third place has weakened itself, whilst all around them have strenghtened to one degree or another.
Where we are as a club is nothing new. It's been going on for a while. I've said stuff like "let Coutinho go and win shit". I never imagined myself saying that as a Liverpool fan. Once upon a time I couldnt believe the fact that Owen could want to leave us like he did, or Macca.
Ok, so it's all on Klopp now.
He needs to repeat last season's trick of getting us over the line in fourth place or higher, which we are currently on target for, but which could rapidly change with a couple more poor results.
Yet again, it's a huge gamble. If we get into the CL again, & we do get the targets Klopp actually wants, then it will have paid off.
Sadly, we possibly won't know for until the end of the summer whether or not this massive gamble has paid off.
He needs to repeat last season's trick of getting us over the line in fourth place or higher, which we are currently on target for, but which could rapidly change with a couple more poor results.
Yet again, it's a huge gamble. If we get into the CL again, & we do get the targets Klopp actually wants, then it will have paid off.
Sadly, we possibly won't know for until the end of the summer whether or not this massive gamble has paid off.
Which is what we all know, the owners want to do things with the slightest margin for error, spend little (net) and hope that eventually selling off salable assets will pay off. You sell three, you buy six and hope that every one of those six improves to the level that they in turn will sell in a few years and then fund more players, and so on and so on. It's a risky strategy and in it's short-termism, they are banking on capitalising on the status of developed players within (say) a 3 year turn around, so the constant selling and redeveloping means we don't actually ever reach a point where all of our developed assets get to forge a "complete" team.
We should have bought a keeper, a DM and a couple of defenders ages ago. At this rate, by the time we get those players, we'll need to invest in attackers again, because the likes of Salah will be the salable asset. And again, so on and so on. The elusive jigsaw pieces.
I genuinely feel for Klopp, because he's chasing his fucking tail. I don't think he's always prioritised right in the transfer market, but he hasn't been helped either.
He might need 2-3 additional CM's this summer. To have cash for that investments he might need a small gamble in January. Can AOC and Lallana carry us over the Line as number 10's? Can Ings step up and provide sufficient cover for Firmino? Will Mane hit form again? Can Henderson remain fit to give sufficient cover for Can/Wini? Will we ever get a CD pairing making each other look good with the current personnel? Will our goalies save us once throughout the season?
Plenty of question that could all been "rectified" by some investments. But would any investement guarantee a value for money player in? Would the squad settle well to i.e. Mahrez coming in at a high price, high wages and questinable attitude?
Yeah it is on Klopp and his team but I guess they have done some thinking and ended up with what we have because they believe we are better off this way. It is not like Klopp wants us to not qualify for CL.
I'm not really sure thats accurate Mark. If that was the case we wouldnt be spending 75 mill on a CB or 60 mill on Keita.
Will be interesting to see what our net spend is this summer. We wont be selling any of our top players and will probably be quite active in the transfer market.
Will be interesting to see what our net spend is this summer. We wont be selling any of our top players and will probably be quite active in the transfer market.
Except for the last para where he completely contradicts himself.'I"m not too bothered by the failure to replace Coutinho right away'+'we do currently seem awfully thin in some areas especially with Mane off the boil and Lallana injured.'It's precisely this area that we should have used the Coutinho money to strengthen,if we really had to give in to the litle fuck,because it is this area that his departue has left us light in.There is no easy way to completely replicate his skillset but we could have spent the money to bolster our options and make us less vulnerable to the injuries tht are almost inevitable.Lallana has been injured and Mane off the boil all season so knowing the fuck wanted out Klopp should have had his required acquisitions in his back pocket from mid December.That's if it's all on Klopp which I doubt as he is keen to remind us :he has a boss.
Wouldn't be so sure about that. I can foresee a lot of interest in Salah. Maybe we'll hold onto him and not sell until January.
Haha, yeah that would be our new strategy it seems.
I dont think he'll leave despite the interest. Real Madrid will be going all out for Hazard I'm guessing anyway.
It's not really far off. We've sold Coutinho and bought those two for the same amount. One or both of them improve with us, they move again in a couple of years and we make a profit. Keita is already being talked about as a player the big Spanish sides have been interested in. So how far from the truth is it?
You can't bank on keeping anyone, but you can look at our history over the last 10 years and see that we've repeatedly sold alot of players at a profit, the best players (Torres, Suarez, Sterling, Coutinho, etc) we've at the very least doubled our money on, some we've tripled, some we've quadrupled, Coutinho we made millions on. But one thing is constant, our best players ALWAYS get sold, the only two big name players we've kept hold of recent years were home grown, anyone else we've lost, because of a lack of winning things, which goes hand in hand with constantly selling your best players.
And I don't know how you can say categorically that we won't sell anyone this Summer, it depends how the season pans out and who shows interest in who. I don't see Salah being here for the long term. You're kidding yourself if you think the same thing isn't on the cards soon for another big player (not that we've got many now), because it always happens.
I dont think I'm kidding myself I say that we wont be selling any of these players this summer. Salah has been here for one season. Mane will have his best mate Keita joining him. Firmino will get a new contract but could be the one player were we might struggle with if there is interest from Spain.
I dont think he'll leave mind.
After that we might obviously lose a player or two but lets hope we dont and that success keeps our best players at the club.
I'm fed up selling our best players. Its not strange that we do that either given that we have finished consistently outside of the CL places for a number of years.
I think you're missing the point massively with your last sentence, it's things like not buying to replace Coutinho now and then missing out on the CL next season, that results in players like Salah leaving and us not winning anything, it's a vicious circle and the only way to get out of it is to be more ruthless with the players we do have and by showing AMBITION and not having a shite net spend.
The only reasonable argument I can see here is that if we didn't have a replacement lined up or an idea of how we wanted to use the funds, then why sell Coutinho in this window at all? I think that's where Klopps chat about not having a player in the dressing room who doesnt want to be there (the bad apple) may come in - although it has to be said, its not apparent that Coutinho acted like that following the failure to move in the summer (although maybe he did and we just never got wind of it).
However, Im not sure I'd be that much happier if we'd just spunked 50m on a Lanzini-type or 90m on Mahrez. I get the whole point of "its not our money" - but that just seems bonkers - and if those guys come in on commensurate wages (150-250k per week) surely that's also a massively destabilising impact on the squad. So what would I have liked? I realise youre probably not going to be able to go and get a top keeper in this window , so maybe a smart McAllister type move in midfield or defence (fuck, I hate Jonny Evans, but something in that bracket - loads of experience, leadership, put him straight in) and our scouting network to do its job with a couple of fancy Brazillian 18yrd olds coming in and restoring my faith in the future. Not too much to ask, is it?!
None of that would have eaten into the war chest for the summer... if that war chest even exists.
However, Im not sure I'd be that much happier if we'd just spunked 50m on a Lanzini-type or 90m on Mahrez. I get the whole point of "its not our money" - but that just seems bonkers - and if those guys come in on commensurate wages (150-250k per week) surely that's also a massively destabilising impact on the squad. So what would I have liked? I realise youre probably not going to be able to go and get a top keeper in this window , so maybe a smart McAllister type move in midfield or defence (fuck, I hate Jonny Evans, but something in that bracket - loads of experience, leadership, put him straight in) and our scouting network to do its job with a couple of fancy Brazillian 18yrd olds coming in and restoring my faith in the future. Not too much to ask, is it?!
None of that would have eaten into the war chest for the summer... if that war chest even exists.
Yes, but I dont think thats missing the point. The basis for every post and argument has been that its a massive gamble.
Not overspending on the wrong targets in January doesnt scream unambitious to me, but letting Coutinho go in January is a massive massive gamble that hopefully will come off. Its not a good deal for us at all and one I'm surprised we sanctioned.
Must be more to it that we dont know about his behavior etc that Klopp seems to think would effect the team over the rest of the season.
It doesnt excuse the deal though.
Leicester find themselves in the same situation with Mahrez now. He has said today that he's considering not playing for the club again after last nights bid being rejected. If he plays for Leicester again it will be interesting to see how he performs.
Problem with this approach is that it's a World Cup year and deals won't get done until late in the summer. Will Klopp then kick the can on to January for reinforcements? There's always a reason to hesitate. We're on a treadmill while some of our competitors are trying to get ahead.
I'm not all doom and gloom but we had a chance to push on and meanwhile we AT BEST stayed neutral and at worst are just one one or two injuries away from another season in the Europa.
Hansen, Mystic, I really don't mean that to sound cuntish. Only WE can put a top manager at the helm and then hinder his progress. I'm not sure how much of this is on Klopp or FSG, but clearly the plan isn't about ambitious investment or the here and now, it's still some moneyball blueprint that isn't being adapted well for close to immediate success. It's about stability (fine) and repeated European qualification, which smacks of profit first and only marginal gain on the pitch.
I've repeatedly talked about striking while the iron is hot and capitalising on positions of strength. We always, without fail, hesitate to do this and it results in more of the same mediocrity and only the occasional near success.
I've repeatedly talked about striking while the iron is hot and capitalising on positions of strength. We always, without fail, hesitate to do this and it results in more of the same mediocrity and only the occasional near success.
This is exactly where I'm at, I'm not bothered because I have zero faith that anyone coming in would have made more than a token difference. I'm annoyed we sold Coutinho for this reason as well, but meh I'm over it.
Listen lads. FSG don't give a flying fuck about LFC or it's trophy wanting fans. All they care about is the bottom line. That's where the profit figure can be read. They will continue to do the bare minimum necessary to achieve CL qualification and the money that goes with it, although their lack of action in January may well put that achievement in jeopardy.
I said it when the little rat left, and I'll say it again. It's simple maths. Sale of Coutinho = purchase of VVD and Keita. There was no kitty sitting in the bank to sign a player. Every fucker that we were linked with was either too expensive, or for a summer purchase. That will probably take place after the sale of Salah, Firmino or Mane.
FSG are cunts, and as long as they are the owners this sorry cycle will continue.
I said it when the little rat left, and I'll say it again. It's simple maths. Sale of Coutinho = purchase of VVD and Keita. There was no kitty sitting in the bank to sign a player. Every fucker that we were linked with was either too expensive, or for a summer purchase. That will probably take place after the sale of Salah, Firmino or Mane.
FSG are cunts, and as long as they are the owners this sorry cycle will continue.
Come May or April James Pearce and the other LFC friendy hacks will talk about the massive war chest we have and how this summer Liverpool could spend more than they've ever done before. Then nothing will happen until the start of the world cup as players are too busy preparing for the world cup and after the world cup the reason for no signings will be that the market has been inflated because of the world cup and come July Keita will be unveiled and the press will pretend he's a new signing rather than someone we bought last summer.
We might get a keeper in depending on whether Klopp decides Karius isn't good enough but I wouldn't be surprised if all we get is a back up keeper to Karius as Klopp doesn't like to admit he's wrong about a player.
This might seem that I'm having a go at Klopp and maybe I am a bit but he's also stuck in a situation he can't control when it comes to spending money and who negotiates the deals. Every summer we get promised the earth and come transfer deadline day we are usually disappointed and angry at the club for failing to strengthen certain positions and wantonly ignoring obvious weaknesses in the squad. It happens every year and anyone who can't see it is a naive fool.
We might get a keeper in depending on whether Klopp decides Karius isn't good enough but I wouldn't be surprised if all we get is a back up keeper to Karius as Klopp doesn't like to admit he's wrong about a player.
This might seem that I'm having a go at Klopp and maybe I am a bit but he's also stuck in a situation he can't control when it comes to spending money and who negotiates the deals. Every summer we get promised the earth and come transfer deadline day we are usually disappointed and angry at the club for failing to strengthen certain positions and wantonly ignoring obvious weaknesses in the squad. It happens every year and anyone who can't see it is a naive fool.
I generally agree with this, and also Jack D Rips slightly angrier post, but it's only fair to point out that while there are still glaring, obvious weaknesses in the team/ squad, Klopp and his team did sign the prolific, quick attacker we all knew we needed in Salah, and also (eventually) the quality CB we've been crying out for.
So while selling one of our best players mid-season (and weakening the team by not replacing him) is totally mad, some of the issues have been addressed.
We now just need another CB, a new goalkeeper, another CM and another striker.
I think we'll get 2 of them at least this summer
Of course, then we lose another player (Salah/firmino/take your pick) who we'll have to replace
Well, there is that. But maybe we'll get lucky and won't have to sell anyone we don't want to?
Shiny, happy people.
I agree that Salah has been fantastic for us but a lot of his success was linked to Coutinho's creativity which we've now lost and failed to replace or even try to replace. I'm not prepared to praise the club regarding Van Dijk as it was the clubs fault that they fucked the transfer up in the summer and if they had acted properly then (or been better at hiding their tapping up) then it probably wouldn't have cost as much as it eventually did. The feeling is that Van Dijk was only purchased once the decision to sell Coutinho in January had been made. It may be the wrong conclusion to make but the timing is just too suspicious to me.
The other requirements you mention are nothing new to us though are they? We knew at the end of last season that both Mignolet and Karius were shite and nothing they have done this season has dispelled that notion so why couldn't Klopp and the club see it too.
We also knew that Sturridge was finished or at least incompatible with the way that Klopp likes his team to play and Ings was most likely finished too and Solanke most probably not quite ready to contribute regularly which he certainly hasn't.
Centre midfield is even more perplexing as the players we have currently lack pace, passing and/or tackling abilty, as well as positional intelligence so to not add to what we already had last summer was madness. They're not bad players but at most ambitious teams they would be no more than squad players. Keita doesn't count really as he's been unavailable for us and him coming after Coutinho has gone solves nothing on it's own.
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