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Can we discuss Suarez the LFC Player, opinon?

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Fox

Fox

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Forget hand shakes ETC, what about a half time report on Suarez the player.

Are we going over the top on this lad's ability as a front man, is he a good enough finisher for what we need?

He seems shocking in the air and needs a few chances to slot one in but on the other hand his approach play and skill cannot be questioned.

After Carroll's best games and the fact Luis is rusty and all the Evra stuff, its baffling why Suarez started anyway the other day, does Kenny know what's best for us up front at all.

Whether Carroll and Luis can work as a pair we will see soon but with Luis's conversion rate so poor and his personal issues, is he what we need long term.

Before this Evra incident you would have not found anyone on here saying Suarez may not be good enough for what we need. The fact remains, we scored more goals without him, his peronal troubles are obvious throughout his whole career and his finsihing still seems poor.

Convince me folks I am worried about Luis as a player for us even if you forget the personal stuff
 
Well, they have both been with us a year, and from what I have seen over the year Luis is twice the player Andy is. Is he good enough to lead our line? Definately. He is hard working, energic and skilled. He needs more assistance, and he needs to put away a few more goals, but as a player he is a joy to watch, and you know he will deliver. Even on his poor days he will be one of our best players of the day!
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48675.msg1482308#msg1482308 date=1329140260]
Well, they have both been with us a year, and from what I have seen over the year Luis is twice the player Andy is. Is he good enough to lead our line? Definately. He is hard working, energic and skilled. He needs more assistance, and he needs to put away a few more goals, but as a player he is a joy to watch, and you know he will deliver. Even on his poor days he will be one of our best players of the day!
[/quote]


you will be hoping he stays then fella, if he scores 10+ more goals for the rest of this season and plays well it will help him as he will be under the microscope big time now
 
On goals-scored - one would think that Suarez is not that great - but what he does is priceless on many levels, which is he is a chance creator and is creative in the final third, not something we have had since the little Spaniard played for us, but this guy we have now is much better, faster, stronger and determined to win every game he plays and he never lets his head down. If we sold him - we would not be able to replace him, as Kenny said in one post match interview:

"How do you replace Luis Suarez ?"

The answer is that you cannot replace him. What that guy needs though is someone who knows how to play with him and get into those positions where he can score, I don't think there are many great strikers out there we can afford but one player who would guarantee an ability to work to the strengths of Suarez would have been Diego Forlan (yes the ex-manc). Before we start makin huge judgements on him now - just remember he has just come back into the side from an 8 game ban.
 
[quote author=Fox link=topic=48675.msg1482314#msg1482314 date=1329140539]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48675.msg1482308#msg1482308 date=1329140260]
Well, they have both been with us a year, and from what I have seen over the year Luis is twice the player Andy is. Is he good enough to lead our line? Definately. He is hard working, energic and skilled. He needs more assistance, and he needs to put away a few more goals, but as a player he is a joy to watch, and you know he will deliver. Even on his poor days he will be one of our best players of the day!
[/quote]


you will be hoping he stays then fella, if he scores 10+ more goals for the rest of this season and plays well it will help him as he will be under the microscope big time now
[/quote]

I think we need him to stay as he is a fantastic player. Ill admit that to me it is a bonus that he pisses of Fergie as well.

To often have good players left the club, and not been properly replaced with equal or better talent. It is hard to find and hard to attract the best around, and in those circumstances Luis is a scoop for us. I guess he will deliver the goods and make himself even more valuable to the club. the danger is allways there that the better he is for us, the more hot he is out in the market. But him being the by far best of our lets say 10 latest signings, with JE and Bellers the two others that can be branded as ok, we really need to hang onto this guy!
 
[quote author=moron link=topic=48675.msg1482317#msg1482317 date=1329140922]
On goals-scored - one would think that Suarez is not that great - but what he does is priceless on many levels, which is he is a chance creator and is creative in the final third, not something we have had since the little Spaniard played for us, but this guy we have now is much better, faster, stronger and determined to win every game he plays and he never lets his head down. If we sold him - we would not be able to replace him, as Kenny said in one post match interview:

"How do you replace Luis Suarez ?"

The answer is that you cannot replace him. What that guy needs though is someone who knows how to play with him and get into those positions where he can score, I don't think there are many great strikers out there we can afford but one player who would guarantee an ability to work to the strengths of Suarez would have been Diego Forlan (yes the ex-manc). Before we start makin huge judgements on him now - just remember he has just come back into the side from an 8 game ban.
[/quote]
Thank you.
 
He's a brilliant footballer, but it has turned out he's more Steve Mcmanaman than Robbie Fowler, like we had thought at 1st.
 
What a ridiculous thread.

Suarez is a world class player. Regardless of what you may think of him as a person.

His technical ability, skill, work rate, football intelligence and desire to win are off the charts.

As for goals, here’s some perspective – 111 goals in 159 games for Ajax, 26 goals in 52 games for Uruguay.

He has 9 goals in 24 games for us this season. He’s our joint top scorer.

He hasn’t set the league on fire, but the fact that he hasn’t scored enough has little to do with his own ability and more with the fact that most of the other attacking players we have are significantly inferior, and the fact that our manager has struggled to establish any sort of coherent attacking football philosophy whatsoever.

If there’s anything to worry about on the football pitch, it’s the quality of players we signed for staggeringly vast sums of money, and as worryingly, Kenny’s incoherent and often insipid tactical displays.

If Suarez doesn’t make it here, it won’t be for footballing reasons. If he does, he’ll score a bucketload of goals. I can bet on that.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48675.msg1482438#msg1482438 date=1329193149]
What a ridiculous thread.

Suarez is a world class player. Regardless of what you may think of him as a person.

His technical ability, skill, work rate, football intelligence and desire to win are off the charts.

As for goals, here’s some perspective – 111 goals in 159 games for Ajax, 26 goals in 52 games for Uruguay.

He has 9 goals in 24 games for us this season. He’s our joint top scorer.

He hasn’t set the league on fire, but the fact that he hasn’t scored enough has little to do with his own ability and more with the fact that most of the other attacking players we have are significantly inferior, and the fact that our manager has struggled to establish any sort of coherent attacking football philosophy whatsoever.

If there’s anything to worry about on the football pitch, it’s the quality of players we signed for staggeringly vast sums of money, and as worryingly, Kenny’s incoherent and often insipid tactical displays.

If Suarez doesn’t make it here, it won’t be for footballing reasons. If he does, he’ll score a bucketload of goals. I can bet on that.
[/quote]

Nobody is saying he is not a class player but what about him as a top finisher in the PL

Saying he has not scored enough has little to do with his own ability is a strange one, 7% chance conversion rate, whose fault is that the woodwork???

Let's see how he goes the rest of the season
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48675.msg1482438#msg1482438 date=1329193149]


As for goals, here’s some perspective – 111 goals in 159 games for Ajax, 26 goals in 52 games for Uruguay.

He has 9 goals in 24 games for us this season. He’s our joint top scorer.

He hasn’t set the league on fire, but the fact that he hasn’t scored enough has little to do with his own ability and more with the fact that most of the other attacking players we have are significantly inferior, and the fact that our manager has struggled to establish any sort of coherent attacking football philosophy whatsoever.

[/quote]

Perspective ?

Worse players have much better international records (Ali Daei, Stern John for example) so it's an unreliable barometer to judge anyone by. The next stat you have is Dutch goals, footballs equivalent of dog years - again an unreliable stat because so many shit strikers have done so well there.

I wonder if anyone can think of a player signed for around the same money who also joined a a team where most of the attacking players were inferior and the manager had failed to put together any coherent attacking football philosophy ..... Fernando Torres anyone ?

In his first year I think Torres got 24 league goals and 3 assists, compared to Suarez's 10 goals and 4 assists. I think most people agree that they are different players and you would generally expect more goals from Torres simply because he was an out and out goalscorer whereas Suarez is more of a 7. And Suarez is certainly more of an inventive player than Torres, but the trouble is while he does create a lot of goalscoring opportunities he does so for himself not his teammates and unfortunately Suarez happens to be one of the worst finishing strikers in the Premier League. He needs to become a lot less selfish for his talent to translate into results for us.

btw, this season:

Clint Dempsey - 10 goals, 4 assists
Steven Fletcher - 10 goals, 1 assist
Danny Graham - 10 goals, 1 assist
Ivan Klasnic - 7 goals, 4 assists
Steve Morison - 8 goals, 4 assists


Let's not get ahead of ourselves with Suarez - he's got serious talent but he's not making the most of it.
 
He's obviously a good player. He needs a little more focus in my opinion.

He could do worse than adopt Kenny Dalglish's attitude during his playing days, concentrate more on the team play and less on your own isolated performance.

Like Suarez, Kenny wasn't prolific, the goals came mainly from Rush usually assisted by Dalglish.

If Luis can adopt some more of the team ethic I think he can propel us toward the top end of the League.
 
Using stats alone is a bit foolish. if I remember correct there was a lot of posts with stats in Downings favour when we signed him.

Football is so much more than hard stats. Luis is a brilliant footballer. He draws attention, and I am sure the opposite defenders hate to meet him.
 
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=48675.msg1482487#msg1482487 date=1329209259]
He's obviously a good player. He needs a little more focus in my opinion.

He could do worse than adopt Kenny Dalglish's attitude during his playing days, concentrate more on the team play and less on your own isolated performance.

Like Suarez, Kenny wasn't prolific, the goals came mainly from Rush usually assisted by Dalglish.

If Luis can adopt some more of the team ethic I think he can propel us toward the top end of the League.
[/quote]

Exactly my line of thinking. It's also worth saying that Luis is the focal point of our attack, one where he's often either isolated, or surrounded by shite like Downing and others like Henderson who just don't read the game well enough to move off him (like Ming did). At times we've asked too much of him, he's been the only creative spark we've had. When Suarez hasn't been there, it's been the same case with Bellamy, too much has been asked of him.

We need to end the season now and fuck off all of this shite tinkering that's cost us, play our best XI, surrounded Suarez with what bits of quality we've got and hope that we become the sum of our parts again, instead of playing with one eye on the opposition and one eye on the next match. FOCUS.
 
Valid points. We need to support the striker(s) whoever they are. Far too often there is no box treath or even presence from midfield at all. We need to fill up the box with alternatives when making crosses, otherwise it is far too easy for defenders to isolate the one man hanging around there. if Suarez or others are to be more prolific goalscorers they need much more help.
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48675.msg1482498#msg1482498 date=1329211149]
Valid points. We need to support the striker(s) whoever they are. Far too often there is no box treath or even presence from midfield at all. We need to fill up the box with alternatives when making crosses, otherwise it is far too easy for defenders to isolate the one man hanging around there. if Suarez or others are to be more prolific goalscorers they need much more help.
[/quote]

I was watching a clip on youtube of our game against Barcalona at their ground in the CL - and there was an attack led by us on the wings - and I kid you not by the time the cross was put in there were four other players in the final third lined up to head or do something in the box area. Too often against deep defending team our midfield players are too slow to take up positions - the game at Old Trafford was the laziest I have seen our midfield in a long time.
 
[quote author=moron link=topic=48675.msg1482858#msg1482858 date=1329265313]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=48675.msg1482498#msg1482498 date=1329211149]
Valid points. We need to support the striker(s) whoever they are. Far too often there is no box treath or even presence from midfield at all. We need to fill up the box with alternatives when making crosses, otherwise it is far too easy for defenders to isolate the one man hanging around there. if Suarez or others are to be more prolific goalscorers they need much more help.
[/quote]

I was watching a clip on youtube of our game against Barcalona at their ground in the CL - and there was an attack led by us on the wings - and I kid you not by the time the cross was put in there were four other players in the final third lined up to head or do something in the box area. Too often against deep defending team our midfield players are too slow to take up positions - the game at Old Trafford was the laziest I have seen our midfield in a long time.
[/quote]

An interesting perspective.

What you call 'lazy', I call poor coaching and tactics.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=48675.msg1482480#msg1482480 date=1329208566]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48675.msg1482438#msg1482438 date=1329193149]


As for goals, here’s some perspective – 111 goals in 159 games for Ajax, 26 goals in 52 games for Uruguay.

He has 9 goals in 24 games for us this season. He’s our joint top scorer.

He hasn’t set the league on fire, but the fact that he hasn’t scored enough has little to do with his own ability and more with the fact that most of the other attacking players we have are significantly inferior, and the fact that our manager has struggled to establish any sort of coherent attacking football philosophy whatsoever.

[/quote]

Perspective ?

Worse players have much better international records (Ali Daei, Stern John for example) so it's an unreliable barometer to judge anyone by. The next stat you have is Dutch goals, footballs equivalent of dog years - again an unreliable stat because so many shit strikers have done so well there.

I wonder if anyone can think of a player signed for around the same money who also joined a a team where most of the attacking players were inferior and the manager had failed to put together any coherent attacking football philosophy ..... Fernando Torres anyone ?

In his first year I think Torres got 24 league goals and 3 assists, compared to Suarez's 10 goals and 4 assists. I think most people agree that they are different players and you would generally expect more goals from Torres simply because he was an out and out goalscorer whereas Suarez is more of a 7. And Suarez is certainly more of an inventive player than Torres, but the trouble is while he does create a lot of goalscoring opportunities he does so for himself not his teammates and unfortunately Suarez happens to be one of the worst finishing strikers in the Premier League. He needs to become a lot less selfish for his talent to translate into results for us.

btw, this season:

Clint Dempsey - 10 goals, 4 assists
Steven Fletcher - 10 goals, 1 assist
Danny Graham - 10 goals, 1 assist
Ivan Klasnic - 7 goals, 4 assists
Steve Morison - 8 goals, 4 assists


Let's not get ahead of ourselves with Suarez - he's got serious talent but he's not making the most of it.
[/quote]
As I said in the other thread when you were being fashionably cool on Luis. If he sees his arse with English authorities , which I would not blame him for, and gets off in the summer, which will not be a great trading position for us , but how much do you think he would go for even under those circumstances, I would put a wager on it would be a lot more than any on that list of yours . Why?........... because most people including yourself know he is a hell of a talent, and even if he is not scoring he is worth his place, and I think we all know the goals will click sooner or later.

regards
 
There is also the fact that Suraz and Gerrard have played together very little - I don't know the exact stats... but can't imagine it being much.

Given that we're probably all agreed that Owen & Torres benifited greatly from Gerrards ability.. that could be the catalyst... getting them two in form.

The old cliche about the important thing, particularly as far as we're concerned, is that Suarez is getting in to positions to make or take chances.. the finishing may well come.

I don't buy this argument about "Oh he scored loads in Holland.. that means fuck all"... plenty of top quality strikers cut their teeth in that league... moreso than the Premiership if you ask me... RVN, RVP, Massive Zlatan, Hasselbank, Bergkamp, Ronaldo (the fat one)

Besides.... I don't think I could take loosing another catchy striker song..... I've never recovered from us loosing the Torres song.....
 
[quote author=PaulGorst link=topic=48675.msg1483086#msg1483086 date=1329320467]
Simple answer, nine out of every ten times, he's our best player.
[/quote]

I think our best player you have to be effective and as ross says he has the worst conversion rate in the league. I think bellamy has been more effective.
I just don't think suarez should be leading the line, he simply isn't clinical enough. with all that said he has brilliant ability
 
Check out Morse's table, even after a 9-match absence. It's true that Suarez' Achilles heel (as yet anyway) is his finishing, and like you I'd sooner he weren't leading the line, but even for a forward player that's far from being the only criterion.
 
In the few games they have played Suarez and Gerrard do not seem to link up at all.

Carroll and Gerrard have a much better understanding so far.
 
Once Gerrard, Carroll and Suarez all start to play consistently together we should (and I stress the word 'should' cause God knows we've been waiting for us to finally start sticking them away all year) start to see a change in fortunes in front of goal.
But it's time all the bollocks ceased and all three of them started together, for the next ten games.
 
[quote author=PaulGorst link=topic=48675.msg1483098#msg1483098 date=1329321853]
Once Gerrard, Carroll and Suarez all start to play consistently together we should (and I stress the word 'should' cause God knows we've been waiting for us to finally start sticking them away all year) start to see a change in fortunes in front of goal.
But it's time all the bollocks ceased and all three of them started together, for the next ten games.
[/quote]

-------------Carroll------Suarez------
---Bellamy--------------------------Gerrard---
--------------Spearing---Adam-----------

This team would score.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=48675.msg1483113#msg1483113 date=1329324200]
I would play him on the right.
[/quote]

bellamy---------> carroll <---------------suarez
<--------------gerrard---------------------->

I think that is our most effective forward line.
 
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