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Benitez to be Newcastle Manager..

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Modo said:
BTW it's not about people criticising Rafa for me, it's about some of you comparing Rafa's achievements with Houllier's and saying that they're equal that bothers me.
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I find it odd how little respect you have for Ged did (and he did a lot of important stuff here) and then moan at people who do the same thing to Rafa. Rafa won the bigger trophy and built the better team. Ged won more and set up the base for what Rafa did. Rafa's legacy will be what we are doing now imo - b/c unlike Istanbul, what he set up will hopefully usher in our second golden age.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
I find it odd how little respect you have for Ged did (and he did a lot of important stuff here) and then moan at people who do the same thing to Rafa. Rafa won the bigger trophy and built the better team. Ged won more and set up the base for what Rafa did. Rafa's legacy will be what we are doing now imo - b/c unlike Istanbul, what he set up will hopefully usher in our second golden age.
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It's not odd if you consider Houllier to be worse than Rafa. Houllier did great the first few years, but he lost the plot in his last two years in charge. I have some respect for Houllier but it's nothing compared to the respect I have for Rafa.
 
Modo said:
It's not odd if you consider Houllier to be worse than Rafa. Houllier did great the first few years, but he lost the plot in his last two years in charge. I have some respect for Houllier but it's nothing compared to the respect I have for Rafa.
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Ok - I have no problem with that. Though the bold line can adequately describe Rafa too (though not 'two years' for him, less). I don't really view either them the way I view Shanks, Paisely, Fagan or the King. But being a tier below that is not bad at all, along the likes of Watson etc
 
LeTallecWiz said:
First of all, I don't bring it up (but many people have talked about it). In fact, it's discussed in this book in the last chapter (and I've basically paraphrased it):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/aug/14/red-men-liverpool-football-club-john-williams

I thought you were far better on this subject when you assessed Rafa's fuck ups ... but it seems if ANYONE brings up anything that you feel insults your God, you get all hissy pissy.
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You didn't bring it up, but you suggested it might be true, so I included you. Don't get all 'hissy pissy' just because I pull you up on something.

I'm not going to buy and read a book just to prove a point. What's the nature of the argument?
 
It's semantics really, he forgot to put a defensive midfielder on and gave Kaka the run of the midfield, hence why we ended up 3-0 down. Schoolboy error and it wasn't exactly tactical ingenuity that led to him recognising the issue and sorting it. We all fucking knew from the minute the whistle went.
 
peterhague said:
You didn't bring it up, but you suggested it might be true, so I included you. Don't get all 'hissy pissy' just because I pull you up on something.

I'm not going to buy and read a book just to prove a point. What's the nature of the argument?
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Because I don't know what happened - I think it was criminal Rafa didn't START with Didi. If I don't know what happened at half time, I don't know. I also don't care, because we won - and that's all that matters.

You should buy the book because it's an excellent history of your club.

Gerry_A_Trick said:
I would put Rafa up with Fagan, the other three way above, and Houllier just below.
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Fagan won the league. So I put him ahead of Rafa. Then again, that should put Watson ahead of him too but I haven't done that!
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Fagan won the league. So I put him ahead of Rafa. Then again, that should put Watson ahead of him too but I haven't done that!
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Yes, he did, and not to take away too much from what he did, but I'm fairly sure nearly anyone could have won the league given the state we were in then. I can understand why you would put him above, but I just think Rafa's achievements, given that we were not a title winning side before, are just as good.
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Because I don't know what happened - I think it was criminal Rafa didn't START with Didi. If I don't know what happened at half time, I don't know. I also don't care, because we won - and that's all that matters.

You should buy the book because it's an excellent history of your club.
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I've been reading histories of 'my club' since I was at primary school, thanks. In fact I've read quite enough.
 
Gerry_A_Trick said:
Yes, he did, and not to take away too much from what he did, but I'm fairly sure nearly anyone could have won the league given the state we were in then. I can understand why you would put him above, but I just think Rafa's achievements, given that we were not a title winning side before, are just as good.
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To be honest, I think both Rafa and Ged could have won leagues with the squads they built/inherited during their reign. I still think about 2009 and wonder how the fuck we let it slip - that was ours, and Rafa had built up a fucking incredible squad. The saddest part about that squad is if we win, it stays together for years ... Oh well ...
 
peterhague said:
I've been reading histories of 'my club' since I was at primary school, thanks. In fact I've read quite enough.
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I couldn't really read English at a decent level in primary school ... so I hope you'll excuse me ...

But it's a great book - which talks about the history of the city in the 1880/90s and how that created the main clubs in the city. I knew of the Irish influence in the city, but didn't realize the influences in Liverpool from Scotland (or South Africa for that matter!). oh well, I recommend it if anyone is interested.
 
If you want to argue whether someone is a genius or not, indite or praise someone, based on challenging conditions over a fifteen minute period, then I suggest you keep taking the tabloids you bunch of fucking morons.
 
Ged was good, Rafa was good.

If I were a Newcastle fan I'd pick Rafa as he shades it on getting better trophies and a higher win percentage.

And Newcastle have enough Frogs already.
 
I quite like Rafa the man, but don't rate him for very obvious reasons as Rafa the manager.
I like Houllier the man and Houllier the manager for equally obvious reasons , it was mainly ill health that robbed us of seeing what he could accomplish.
As Macca said, but most have chosen to ignore Houllier set a foundation that had become very displaced.
I don't really give a flying fuck what most of you think or agree with me on, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but if any of you seriously think Rafa did more for this club than Gerard Houllier, then this forum is no longer the place for me.
 
gkmacca said:
Well, you need to add another dimension to that: Houllier worked under Moores, Rafa worked under Hicks and Gilllett.
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And the fact that other teams have improved significantly since Houllier's day.

Chelsea
Spurs
City.
 
So, 12 pages in we're still at the Rafa and Ged have both done a great job. Both were far better in their first couple of years, and lost the plot towards the end.

Is there really anything new that can be added to this discussion?
 
Vlads Quiff said:
I don't really give a flying fuck what most of you think or agree with me on, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but if any of you seriously think Rafa did more for this club than Gerard Houllier, then this forum is no longer the place for me.
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That's a weird sentence. So you do care what people think?
 
Hansern said:
So, 12 pages in we're still at the Rafa and Ged have both done a great job. Both were far better in their first couple of years, and lost the plot towards the end.

Is there really anything new that can be added to this discussion?
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Vlad's going to quit SCM if he finds the majority on here rates Rafa more than Houllier.
 
Vlads Quiff said:
I don't really give a flying fuck what most of you think or agree with me on, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but if any of you seriously think Rafa did more for this club than Gerard Houllier, then this forum is no longer the place for me.
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He did.

Seeya.
 
TheThingIs said:
And the fact that other teams have improved significantly since Houllier's day.

Chelsea
Spurs
City.
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City and Spurs have improved since Rafa's day aswell though tbf.

Not in response to you, but it's funny that people say "Houllier only had to deal with United and Arsenal". And then Rafa only had to deal with those two and Chelsea. Now we have to deal with City, Spurs and a resurgent Everton aswell as those three. It doesn't alter criticism's of the current manager though in terms of perspective about where we're at and what kind of job we have on our hands, does it? But lay into a past manager and all the excuses in the World come pouring out about who they had to compete in comparison to previous reigns.

Which is exactly why Rodgers deserves time to get it right and why it's pretty hypocritical seeing the Rafa fans waving their flags around after he had a 5-6 years to sort things out, while this manager gets it in the neck for not significantly turning us around in 8 months. Same with Kenny last season too.
 
True, well maybe.
When a miracle occurs in a manager's first season the way it did in 2005 you automatically get afforded time unless you're Chelsea.
I enjoyed us being feared more than most in Europe. We didn't have that since the eighties, and nor have we had it since Rafa's final season.
We can always use the domestic league to critcise Rafa (and Gerard) but he gave us something we didn't imagine possible and for that he deserves more credit than any other manager since Kenny's first reign. At least for me. Vlad?
 
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