Ballack - where did it all go wrong?

[Terrier]

Apologies for discussing a Chav player on here, but it's dull as ditch water on here lately.

It wasn't long ago that Ballack was touted as one of the best midfield dynamo's in the world. Indeed it was his name that most frequently came up as the most suitable replacement for Stevie G, should he have left us a few years back.

Having watched him since his arrival in England, I have to say, he's been a shadow of the player he was whilst at Bayern.

He had a phenomenal goal scoring record for both club and country in Germany, whereas at Chelsea, he's played in some sort of weird, deep holding position, kinda like Stevie G's role for the England National team when Fat Frank plays.

A true wasted talent, who would have excelled in practically any other team in England except the Chavs.



Any opinions, does anyone still rate him?

 

[SaintGeorge67]

He got old

 

[manwithnoname]

He's fucking slow and old, and even before he was old, he was fucking slow

 

[Terrier]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=37030.msg982964#msg982964 date=1257714463]
He got old
[/quote]


He joined the Chavs at 29 or 30?


Stevie G's current age.....similar talents at similar ages.

 

[Squiggles]

I don't think he's as bad as being made out, but I did expect a little bit more from him.

Moving to the Premiership that late is difficult even at the best of times.

 

[dossena]

He was very good last year.

He is used to being the main player in the middle, but he is not at Chelsea.

 

[keniget]

The truth - which I'm sure Ballack realizes now - is that he moved to the wrong club. He should've gone to Real Madrid where he'd have walked into the team and gotten a chance to establish himself. Instead he decided to go to Chelsea (god knows why) who were already sorted with a top class midfield that rarely suffers injuries and were never going to count on him.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=37030.msg983305#msg983305 date=1257726509]
(god knows why)
[/quote]

More $

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37030.msg983330#msg983330 date=1257727282]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=37030.msg983305#msg983305 date=1257726509]
(god knows why)
[/quote]

More $
[/quote]

Well, yeah, but I wonder how much more... it just seemed like a really odd move even taking that into account.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=37030.msg983334#msg983334 date=1257727424]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37030.msg983330#msg983330 date=1257727282]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=37030.msg983305#msg983305 date=1257726509]
(god knows why)
[/quote]

More $
[/quote]

Well, yeah, but I wonder how much more... it just seemed like a really odd move even taking that into account.
[/quote]

I remember the Real Manager at the time (whoever the fuck it was) saying they just couldn't match Chelsea's offer.

It left Ballack with only one realistic destination.

 

[ILD]

Ballack was a rolls royce of a midfielder but it seems that he enjoys being a big fish in a small pond. Lampard is at the heart of everything Chelsea do and Ballack isn't the main man. That and he is slow as fuck. Ha.

 

[Ryan]

Bayern Munich and Germany are hardly "small ponds" Dave.

 

[Squiggles]

Weren't United heavily in for Ballack too?

Given their weaknesses at CM, I think that would've been the better move.

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37030.msg983360#msg983360 date=1257729926]
Bayern Munich and Germany are hardly "small ponds" Dave.
[/quote]

Fair enough but all the play went through him playing for club and country. He likes being the focal point of the team. He isn't at Chelsea, maybe that is why he hasn't shone as brightly as many predicted or feared.

 

[RolandG]

He joined the Chavs.....hahahaaaaaaaaa

That was a career killer!

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=RolandG link=topic=37030.msg983428#msg983428 date=1257744468]
He joined the Chavs.....hahahaaaaaaaaa

That was a career killer!
[/quote]

Where he's won the League, FA Cup, League Cup, and played in a Champions League Final.

 

[Roopy]

You build a team around Ballack... that's the type of player he is - or was.

Leverkusen was based around him when he was there, and then Bayern was based around him.

At Chelsea... that is not the case.

 

[LadyRed]

Old and no longer had a team built around him.

I used to love Ballack before he signed for them.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37030.msg983429#msg983429 date=1257744675]
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=37030.msg983428#msg983428 date=1257744468]
He joined the Chavs.....hahahaaaaaaaaa

That was a career killer!
[/quote]

Where he's won the League, FA Cup, League Cup, and played in a Champions League Final.
[/quote]

I don't think he's won the league has he?

In any case he's won a few trophies, played over 100 games and is still getting in the team at the age of 33 a club that is challenging for the title.

I suspect a few of our players would quite like things to 'all go wrong' in that kind of fashion

 

[dossena]

He is a very good player.

He doesn't have the same type of engine that Gerrard obviously have, but he has everything else.

Excellent technique, good passing ability, scores goals, he used to set the tempo for Bayern Munich.

I expected him to do the same for Germany, but was surprised that Torsten Frings was actually doing more of the playmaking, leaving Ballack a lot closer to the goal where he is damaging.

Now Germany have Thomas Hitzlsperger playing the holding role. They won't qualify of their group stage at the world cup.

 

[Richey]

I bet they do get through the group stage.

Apart from the fact they always get through the group stage they didn't exactly struggle to qualify did they?

The Germans have been written off prior to World Cups before but they always tend to do okay when it comes to it

 

[Terrier]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=37030.msg983699#msg983699 date=1257767731]
I bet they do get through the group stage.

Apart from the fact they always get through the group stage they didn't exactly struggle to qualify did they?

The Germans have been written off prior to World Cups before but they always tend to do okay when it comes to it
[/quote]



Yup, on paper they looked an uninspiring squad at the last WC and Euro's - but still managed to muscle their way to the end.

They're always a safe bet for to least the quarters.

 

[dossena]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=37030.msg983699#msg983699 date=1257767731]
I bet they do get through the group stage.

Apart from the fact they always get through the group stage they didn't exactly struggle to qualify did they?

The Germans have been written off prior to World Cups before but they always tend to do okay when it comes to it
[/quote]
Their team this year are so poor though on paper.

Klose isn't killing it at Munich, Podolski is playing at Cologne and hasn't been good since the last time he played for them.

Ballack is old, Hitzlsperger wasn't good enough for Villa. Who play on their right wing? Schweinsteiger is their best player and he's solid but not outstanding.

England would beat them by more than 3 goals if they met.

 

[keniget]

It's a bit early to be predicting that. You don't even know who they'll draw.

"On Paper" means fuck all anyways. France should be one of the best teams around "on paper", but they're not - they're shit.

 

[dossena]

Fair enough.

I think England will win it.

Definitely the best team on paper, along with Spain.

 

[Judge Jules]

As far as Bollock himself goes, IMO some of the above explanations probably over-complicate the issue. While he was still playing in the Bundesliga he said in so many words that he didn't fancy going abroad. I suspect that the Chavs made him an offer he felt he couldn't refuse, but that he never really wanted to take it up for its own sake.

 

[Delinquent]

I could never understand why they signed him when they had Lampard already. Much like the England conundrum of Gerrard/Lampard, it's very difficult to fit them into the same side and get the best out of both players. Understandably, Ballack has taken the brunt of the compromise.

I also think his motivation has dropped with age, but it would have been interesting to see what he could have done in this league if he was playing his natural game. Sublime player on his day.

 

[LarryHagman]

'Not main Man' syndrome. Not as good as Lampard & Essien in the middle, Drogba gets the set pieces he wants.

 

[Roopy]

[quote author=dossena link=topic=37030.msg983707#msg983707 date=1257768059]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=37030.msg983699#msg983699 date=1257767731]
I bet they do get through the group stage.

Apart from the fact they always get through the group stage they didn't exactly struggle to qualify did they?

The Germans have been written off prior to World Cups before but they always tend to do okay when it comes to it
[/quote]
Their team this year are so poor though on paper.

Klose isn't killing it at Munich, Podolski is playing at Cologne and hasn't been good since the last time he played for them.

Ballack is old, Hitzlsperger wasn't good enough for Villa. Who play on their right wing? Schweinsteiger is their best player and he's solid but not outstanding.

England would beat them by more than 3 goals if they met.
[/quote]

Klose has never really been prolific at club level ... but he always does the business for Germany ... I will add he has had some injuries of late.

Podolski isn't firing that's true.... but plenty of time for him to find some form, and lets remember he is not exactly surrounded by top players at Cologne.

But look at the players who are firing ....

Toni Kroos (top talent)
Mesut Ozil is really maturing at an attacking midfielder
Stefan Kiessling is in amazing form for Leverkusen

 

[Judge Jules]

Poor or not, nine times out of ten the Jairmens do the biz when they have to. Look at the team of plodders that went all the way to the Final in the Japan/Korea World Cup. That's what a winning habit does for you.