Allen

[Mors]

(again)

Now the squad is finalised, and we've brought in a player to get Coutinho into the number 10.

Where on earth does Allen get a run of games? We spent 15mill quid on this kid.

The only place(s) he fits in, is in one of the middle 3 of Gerrard, Lucas and Coutinho. The boss isn't going to drop the captain nor Coutinho for him, and he's not a DM as he can't really tackle. So apart from the odd cup game etc, does he just sit on the bench or in the rezzies?

I wonder if Brendan realises he's fucked this one up. The kid might be great, but unless he gets a spot in the first team we'll never know, and he's not going to drop Gerrard or Coutinho for him.

Maybe if Moses turns out shit then Coutinho gets pushed out wide again and he takes the number 10?

 

[Mamma Mia]

It's crazy maaaan. I don't even know why the club employs more than 16 players. Madness.

 

[Holle]

WTF

 

[Modo]

Allen's main problem is a guy called Gerrard.

 

[Squiggles]

Rodgers spent £26M on Borini and Allen.

12 months on, one of them is warming the the bench, and the other is on loan at Sunderland. Up until this point, both deals look awful value for money.

 

[Mors]

Rodgers spent £26M on Borini and Allen.

12 months on, one of them is warming the the bench, and the other is on loan at Sunderland. Up until this point, both deals look awful value for money.

I think Allen could be a great player, but it's a bit like buying a great backup goal keeper if your first choice is brilliant.
He's going to get no consistent run of games due to the people he's up against being undroppable.

I can see the logic behind Borini in a way, he 'could' have fought his way into the first team, as there were spaces he could take up. That isn't the case for Allen.

So I agree, the Allen deal looks like an awful bit of business. Regardless of how good he is or could be.

 

[Dahuge]

I could be wrong here but during a season certain things happen, tiredness, injuries, suspensions. Tt is these things that allow players on the fringes to come in and stake a claim. During the early part of last season Henderson was nowhere near the first team, but, he knuckled down and worked hard and then showed form to force his way into the team. It is this competition that fosters a winning attitude and mentality...

 

[Mors]

I could be wrong here but during a season certain things happen, tiredness, injuries, suspensions. Tt is these things that allow players on the fringes to come in and stake a claim. During the early part of last season Henderson was nowhere near the first team, but, he knuckled down and worked hard and then showed form to force his way into the team. It is this competition that fosters a winning attitude and mentality...

That's because there was a spot available for Henderson to go into if he played well. That spot is now likely to be taken by Coutinho. One of the other spots Allen can play is the position Gerrard plays, so we have to drop the captain to get him a game......

Some players can work hard and get an extended run in the first team, due to the opposition they are up against in the starting XI, this isn't an option for Allen.

 

[Red Mullet]

That's because there was a spot available for Henderson to go into if he played well. That spot is now likely to be taken by Coutinho. One of the other spots Allen can play is the position Gerrard plays, so we have to drop the captain to get him a game......

Some players can work hard and get an extended run in the first team, due to the opposition they are up against in the starting XI, this isn't an option for Allen.

So there's no way, in any shape or form, that Gerrard and Coutinho could get injured or drop in form or be rested in say the cup games? No way, whatsoever?

 

[Mors]

So there's no way, in any shape or form, that Gerrard and Coutinho could get injured or drop in form or be rested in say the cup games? No way, whatsoever?

They could do, which would mean that the 15mill Allen is used as a sub. And that's no guarantee as he's using Henderson instead of him at the moment. So we've got a 15mill player on the bench, looking forward to maybe 5 starts a season in the cup or if everyone is out injured maybe?

It was a royal cockup buying him. Not because he's not a possibly very good player, but because we have no need for him and no position for him.

It's like spunking your entire summer budget on a single lazy inconsistent luxury player that you don't ever really have intention of playing - what's the point?

 

[Glen C]

They could do, which would mean that the 15mill Allen is used as a sub. And that's no guarantee as he's using Henderson instead of him at the moment. So we've got a 15mill player on the bench, looking forward to maybe 5 starts a season in the cup or if everyone is out injured maybe?

It was a royal cockup buying him. Not because he's not a possibly very good player, but because we have no need for him and no position for him.

It's like spunking your entire summer budget on a single lazy inconsistent luxury player that you don't ever really have intention of playing - what's the point?

It wasn't a cockup, he had him in the team and was better than hendo in his opinion. Since then hendo has worked hard to improve and has now overtaken him. Thats how our squad should be. Now its allen's turn to knuckle down and work hard to overtake hendo again.

 

[Red Mullet]

It wasn't a cockup, he had him in the team and was better than hendo in his opinion. Since then hendo has worked hard to improve and has now overtaken him. Thats how our squad should be. Now its allen's turn to knuckle down and work hard to overtake hendo again.

I would've thought this was an obvious answer.

You can also, use him as a sub, keeping the team fresher but that's also obvious.

 

[TSD]

Out of the two pre-committee signings, Borini is the one that should be questioned, not Allen. Costing slightly less than Sturridge and currently nowhere near the first-team. At least Allen showed his worth, albeit briefly, before fading from injury and loss of form. Between Allen and Henderson, there's decent competition for place. Between Borini and Sturridge, there's not even a question of one.

That said, Borini could still come good for us, as with Allen.

 

[Jerry Laser]

I suspect he will be Coutinho's replacement when we need to rest him or if an injury occurs. Brendan was playing him further up in pre-season, but there is no way he will get in ahead of Phillippe....

 

[RedZeppelin III]

Rodgers spent £26M on Borini and Allen.

12 months on, one of them is warming the the bench, and the other is on loan at Sunderland. Up until this point, both deals look awful value for money.

I agree , it's a frustrating waste considering we need to spend wisely and pretty much get all our deals right . And i fear we may be saying similar next summer about the likes of aspas , alberto and others . But in fairness to Rodgers he doesn't mess about , they haven't produced the quality he desires so he benches them or ships them out quickly enough . Some managers would blindly stick with them in an attempt to justify their signing .

 

[doctor_mac]

Out of the two pre-committee signings, Borini is the one that should be questioned, not Allen. Costing slightly less than Sturridge and currently nowhere near the first-team. At least Allen showed his worth, albeit briefly, before fading from injury and loss of form. Between Allen and Henderson, there's decent competition for place. Between Borini and Sturridge, there's not even a question of one.

That said, Borini could still come good for us, as with Allen.

Yup.

 

[the_khl]

I suspect he will be Coutinho's replacement when we need to rest him or if an injury occurs. Brendan was playing him further up in pre-season, but there is no way he will get in ahead of Phillippe....

A player with so few goals and assists throughout his career to show would be extremely bold to apply that far up field in a team that aspires to be in the top.

 

[FreshRed]

On current form, I do not think that Coutinho is guaranteed a place as often as some seem to think. We have tried to move him inside and he has struggled, so I suspect from time to time, he will play still play from the left where he has a little more time and space. And, I think in some games, it may make sense to have him make an impact from the bench.

Right now, I think he is trying to do too much and needs to simplify his game a little. That is how he started last Spring. I feel like he has become a little too confident and he is now taking too much time on the ball and trying too hard to make things happen. Sometimes, you need to let good things happen.

If Coutinho is rotated, Allen will still need to compete with Henderson. I think Henderson is better at getting into space and Allen is a better passer, so depends on the needs of a given game. We shall see.

 

[the_khl]

Coutinho creates goals even scores now and then. Allen doesn't.

Henderson the easy choice but seriously we are looking so very thin in that dep. It's almost criminal.

Had the money for Alberto and Illori (both may turn great but not quite needed now) instead been used to buy Eriksen, Ljaljic etc. we would be looking at an amazing and balanced squad.

Can not believe Rodgers can't see this too...

 

[TSD]

On current form, I do not think that Coutinho is guaranteed a place as often as some seem to think. We have tried to move him inside and he has struggled, so I suspect from time to time, he will play still play from the left where he has a little more time and space. And, I think in some games, it may make sense to have him make an impact from the bench.

Right now, I think he is trying to do too much and needs to simplify his game a little. That is how he started last Spring. I feel like he has become a little too confident and he is now taking too much time on the ball and trying too hard to make things happen. Sometimes, you need to let good things happen.

I believe Coutinho's form is down to a combination of factors. The opposition is fully aware of the danger he poses and doubles up on him. He's also playing alongside a new face upfront, Aspas, who plays closer to the main striker and narrower in general, who has a different game which has yet to be fully bedded in with the team and in the league. Downing may have been piss poor most of the time but he provided a width which gave Coutinho room to operate centrally. Plus, like you mentioned, the possibility of being slightly overconfident in his abilities.

Suarez returning, Moses offering width, and Aspas getting used to the pace should help improve his form.

 

[FreshRed]

I believe Coutinho's form is down to a combination of factors. The opposition is fully aware of the danger he poses and doubles up on him. He's also playing alongside a new face upfront, Aspas, who plays closer to the main striker and narrower in general, who has a different game which has yet to be fully bedded in with the team and in the league. Downing may have been piss poor most of the time but he provided a width which gave Coutinho room to operate centrally. Plus, like you mentioned, the possibility of being slightly overconfident in his abilities.

Suarez returning, Moses offering width, and Aspas getting used to the pace should help improve his form.

Agree with all of that. I am still a huge fan of Coutinho, but he is still relatively young and will have his patches - good and bad.

 

[TSD]

Agree with all of that. I am still a huge fan of Coutinho, but he is still relatively young and will have his patches - good and bad.

Yep, probably a big factor is his youth. Am a big fan too -- we all probably are.

 

[Peatcheo]

Joe Allen's main problems is that he is not good enough to play for Liverpool FC. The fact he looked out of his depth against Notts County also means that he probably won't be seeing much first team action.

 

[rurikbird]

Coutinho creates goals even scores now and then. Allen doesn't

Allen has been getting himself into goalscoring positions throughout all pre-season and he scored a couple of important goals last season. I have no doubt he will create or score some goals if he gets an extended run in the team.

Coutinho of course offers more direct threat, but in the end it's about the balance in the team as a whole. Suppose you have Suarez back and he forms a good productive partnership with either Aspas or Moses. So with Sturridge cementing his place at #9, you now have 3 players with direct goal threat and enough skill and guile to make things happen - all they need is a consistent supply. In this case, Coutinho better stop giving the ball away like he does now - otherwise it will be very easy to make a case that a player like Allen is better suited to complement our attacking 3.

Look at last season, how many twists and turns there were in terms of personnel? Sterling and Suso were starting 11 players for a stretch, Wisdom played at RB and Johnson at LB, Downing was frozen out of the team and laughed at, then used as a LB and laughed at, then he became our starting RW for the rest of the season. Henderson looked completely devoid of confidence in the first half of the season and fans were giving him all kind of abuse (remember what people were saying when he missed that 1 on 1 chance in Europa league?), then he proved himself more useful than the ailing Allen and became a crowd favorite. Carra started on the bench and finished as an almost indispensable player, Enrique seemed like he was on the way out, then he was tried in midfield, now he is firmly established as a starter. Even Jones displaced Reina for a few starts.

The team is a living evolving organism and the only thing that's certain is that by the end of the season it will look very different than in the beginning. That Allen didn't play in the first 3 games means next to nothing. He is a good player, he is versatile and the manager knows his qualities. He will definitely have an important role to play this season and to think otherwise based on the first 3 games is just silly.

 

[Leo]

Great post.

 

[Fabio]

Indeed

 

[Modo]

then he became our starting RW for the rest of the season

He won by default.

Even Jones displaced Reina for a few starts.

Bullcrap

 

[Dirkus_Circus]

Rodgers spent £26M on Borini and Allen.

12 months on, one of them is warming the the bench, and the other is on loan at Sunderland. Up until this point, both deals look awful value for money.

And on the other hand Sturridge, Coutinho, and Mignolet look like outstanding bidness and they weren't very spendy. Tough to get every transfer right.

 

[Modo]

Allen and Borini are still fairly young and we'd recoup a large part of what we paid for them if they're sold.

 

[rurikbird]

Bullcrap

My bad, not a "a few games," but only one game vs Everton.