Alexis Sanchez

[peterhague]

We'll *probably* be weaker next season without him (the ban makes that extremely doubtful IMO) but over the next 5 years we can be much stronger by cashing in now. The gamble has always been whether it'd mean missing out on the CL next season, which would negate all the gains made from the transfer.

That's why the ban is such a big deal for me, and tips the balance in favour of selling.

 

[Frogfish]

Not on same level, totally underestimating the ability Luis has and the impact he has on our season.

What do you mean not on the same level ? I've never said we are on the same level as United's title winning team ! I've said we'll maintain OUR level - it's not that difficult to understand.

Some people (you included) are overestimating Luis' impact on our season as if we are a one-man team. We are not. He was a major part of our season but no-one is irreplaceable.

 

[Pesam]

What do you mean not on the same level ? I've never said we are on the same level as United's title winning team ! I've said we'll maintain OUR level - it's not that difficult to understand.

Some people (you included) are overestimating Luis' impact on our season as if we are a one-man team. We are not. He was a major part of our season but no-one is irreplaceable.

I agree, Brendan Rodgers was the most important factor last season and if we still have him at the helm then I reckon we're in good hands.

 

[hmmmmm1]

What do you mean not on the same level ? I've never said we are on the same level as United's title winning team ! I've said we'll maintain OUR level - it's not that difficult to understand.

Some people (you included) are overestimating Luis' impact on our season as if we are a one-man team. We are not. He was a major part of our season but no-one is irreplaceable.

The players we have been linked with wont be on same level of Luis, squad maybe stronger though.

 

[Frogfish]

The players we have been linked with wont be on same level of Luis, squad maybe stronger though.

Well that goes without saying since he is one of the best 3 players in the world and as far as I know, neither Ronaldo not Messi have agreed to transfer to Liverpool !

That doesn't mean however that the incoming players won't strengthen the squad overall. I have to say I'm very excited about the names we are bidding on / interested in / buying and how they will impact our team / depth next season.

 

[hmmmmm1]

Well that goes without saying since he is one of the best 3 players in the world and as far as I know, neither Ronaldo not Messi have agreed to transfer to Liverpool !

That doesn't mean however that the incoming players won't strengthen the squad overall. I have to say I'm very excited about the names we are bidding on / interested in / buying and how they will impact our team / depth next season.

Seems like we are doing a spurs from last summer.

 

[Judge Jules]

Except that we've got Brendan Rodgers instead of Vill@rse Bo@rse as manager, and FSG instead of Daniel Levy running things.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Por comparison, scum had 3 titles in a row had load of world class players like tevez and rooney still in their attack.

And we would have Sturridge, Sterling, Sanchez, Markovic, Lallana ... and so on (or their equivalents). So no not a poor comparison at all. They maintained their level and we can ours. I've not said anywhere that we are at that level but I am saying that selling Suarez is not a reason to think we won't be in contention again next season. Some are saying we are not even Top 4 material without him - complete hyperbole.

1. Ronaldo and Tevez left Man Utd in the same transfer window.

2. Man Utd league record:
-- 2006/2007 - 1st, 83 scored, 27 conceded
-- 2007/2008 - 1st, 80 scored, 22 conceded (Ronaldo's best season)
-- 2008/2009 - 1st, 68 scored, 24 conceded - Ronaldo with 18 goals, Rooney with 12, Berbatov with 9, Tevez with 5
-- Ronaldo and Tevez leave
-- 2009/2010 - 2nd, 86 scored, 28 conceded - Rooney (26), Berbatov (12), own goals (10), Nani (4),
-- 2010/2011 - 1st, 78 scored, 37 conceded - Berbatov (20), Hernandez (transfer in - 13), Rooney (11), Nani (9)

 

[Markeh]

Isn't there a monetary reason we have to make the champions league in 2015/16 season? I can't remember why though.

 

[Judge Jules]

Massive hike in prize money, I think.

 

[Frogfish]

Seems like we are doing a spurs from last summer.

How on earth you come to that conclusion I don't know.

Not like for like.

Out (in) : Moses, Sissoko (Moreno*), Aspas* (Lambert), Suarez* (Sanchez**), Agger* (Lovren*) / Toure / Coates / Borini / Yesil / Coady / Assaidi
Strengthening for the extra matches due to CL involvement : Lallana / Markovic* / Can

* Potentially / Probably
** If it happens

 

[Glen C]

Isn't there a monetary reason we have to make the champions league in 2015/16 season? I can't remember why though.

Yeah BT taking over, so it goes up by an extra £60m i think

 

[Frogfish]

-- 2009/2010 - 2nd, 86 scored, 28 conceded - Rooney (26), Berbatov (12), own goals (10), Nani (4),
-- 2010/2011 - 1st, 78 scored, 37 conceded - Berbatov (20), Hernandez (transfer in - 13), Rooney (11), Nani (9)

Perfect example of what I'm talking about right there (2010 vs 2011). Cheers for the research mate.

 

[Glen C]

How on earth you come to that conclusion I don't know.

Not like for like.

Out (in) : Moses, Sissoko (Moreno*), Aspas* (Lambert), Suarez* (Sanchez**), Agger* (Lovren*) / Toure / Coates / Borini / Yesil / Coady / Assaidi
Strengthening for the extra matches due to CL involvement : Lallana / Markovic* / Can

* Potentially / Probably
** If it happens

I think he means as in they sold their best player bale and bought a stronger squad. But they were still weaker overall without him as he was their main match winner and none of the replacements were.. Markovic and Can are still very raw talents and i can't see them being much use next season. What we need is to buy a couple of match winners then we're talking about being stronger overall. None of the players linked that we look like getting are players that i think could dig us out of a hole when in trouble like gerrard and suarez can. Hence why i feel suarez would be missed.

 

[Markeh]

Yeah BT taking over, so it goes up by an extra £60m i think

thanks, that's a shit load of money for qualification

 

[Judge Jules]

Don't mention it. 😉

 

[peterhague]

thanks, that's a shit load of money for qualification

It's not right though. More like £30m max than £60m. Still very important though.

 

[Glen C]

It's not right though. More like £30m max than £60m. Still very important though.

Oh ok i couldn't remember. either way we need to be in it.

 

[hmmmmm1]

I think he means as in they sold their best player bale and bought a stronger squad. But they were still weaker overall without him as he was their main match winner and none of the replacements were.. Markovic and Can are still very raw talents and i can't see them being much use next season. What we need is to buy a couple of match winners then we're talking about being stronger overall. None of the players linked that we look like getting are players that i think could dig us out of a hole when in trouble like gerrard and suarez can. Hence why i feel suarez would be missed.

This pretty much.

 

[mark1975]

I'm surprised people haven't been up in arms about us supposedly bidding £25m for Markovic, he looks far from worth that kind of money, yet he's foreign, so..

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Perfect example of what I'm talking about right there (2010 vs 2011). Cheers for the research mate.

No problem. It was a good memory refresher for me too. I knew someone had to have stepped up to help the Mancs win after Ronaldo left, and until they got Van Persie, I don't think they bought any other world class player. I knew Nani did have a breakout season only after Ronaldo departed, but wasn't sure when that was and what he did. Turned out it was the 2010/2011 season - he scored only 9 goals, but had a whopping 18 assists. For some reason, Berbatov's name totally slipped my mind, but those 20 goals in that same season from him were crucial for them.

If you'd like an even more recent example, we can look at Arsenal. Lots of people were saying they'd be in the shits had they not had Van Persie scoring all the goals for them in his last season. Well, they had good reason to doubt Arsenal, given that Van Persie had scored 30 goals, and the next highest scorer was Walcott with 8. Doomsday scenario, certainly.

But it wasn't. Arsenal brought in Giroud, Podolski and Cazorla in one season - good players but not Tier 1 or even Tier 2 names using rurikbird's classification. What happened? Arsenal scored 72 goals that season, just 2 below Van Persie's final season (2011/2012 - Arsenal had 74 that season). Van Persie's 30 goals were replaced by a 75% increase in goal production by Walcott (14 goals; up from 8), and 11 to 12 goals each from the three newcomers. For what it's worth, Arsenal got 68 goals in the recently-concluded season, as Walcott's and Cazorla's numbers plunged and Podolski scored only 8. Giroud compensated for some of that by scoring a few more, and of course, up stepped Ramsey in an injury-hit season with 10 (up from 1 the previous season).

The key thing for us is whether we have the guys who can step up in Suarez's absence. Even if we don't right away, nobody can be absolutely certain that we won't ever. Nobody is irreplaceable - it's just a matter of time, money, and a bit of luck.

 

[Markeh]

It's not right though. More like £30m max than £60m. Still very important though.

Yup, if we drop out of the top 4 it just keeps getting harder to return

 

[Pesam]

Seems like we are doing a spurs from last summer.

"Doing a Spurs" means nothing; Spurs sold their best player and spent most of the £90m on 6 players......had they chosen wisely they could easily have pushed for a top 4 place but they bought duds such as Soldado, Chadli, Paulinho, Capoue etc.

In Mourinho's first season at Chelsea he brought in 6 players for about £70m.....Drogba, Essien, Carvalho, Ferreira, Tiago and Kezman and managed to gel most of these players into the existing sqaud sufficiently well that they won the league (and league cup).

If we sold Suarez and used that money added to a kitty of say £30m and bought Sanchez, Lallana, Lovren, Can, Markovic and Origi I reckon we will actually improve on last season.

 

[RolandG]

"Doing a Spurs" means nothing; Spurs sold their best player and spent most of the £90m on 6 players......had they chosen wisely they could easily have pushed for a top 4 place but they bought duds such as Soldado, Chadli, Paulinho, Capoue etc.

In Mourinho's first season at Chelsea he brought in 6 players for about £70m.....Drogba, Essien, Carvalho, Ferreira, Tiago and Kezman and managed to gel most of these players into the existing sqaud sufficiently well that they won the league (and league cup).

If we sold Suarez and used that money added to a kitty of say £30m and bought Sanchez, Lallana, Lovren, Can, Markovic and Origi I reckon we will actually improve on last season.

I have to agree with you Pesam. We'd replace Suarez goals by spreading them around. Add Shaquiri to that list of players.

 

[Markeh]

"Doing a Spurs" means nothing; Spurs sold their best player and spent most of the £90m on 6 players......had they chosen wisely they could easily have pushed for a top 4 place but they bought duds such as Soldado, Chadli, Paulinho, Capoue etc.

In Mourinho's first season at Chelsea he brought in 6 players for about £70m.....Drogba, Essien, Carvalho, Ferreira, Tiago and Kezman and managed to gel most of these players into the existing sqaud sufficiently well that they won the league (and league cup).

If we sold Suarez and used that money added to a kitty of say £30m and bought Sanchez, Lallana, Lovren, Can, Markovic and Origi I reckon we will actually improve on last season.

I agree with you but I thought those Chelsea players cost closer to £100 million.... 10 years ago! It's a big gamble to trust Brendan with the cash, all transfers are risky. I just hope we get it right.

 

[hmmmmm1]

"Doing a Spurs" means nothing; Spurs sold their best player and spent most of the £90m on 6 players......had they chosen wisely they could easily have pushed for a top 4 place but they bought duds such as Soldado, Chadli, Paulinho, Capoue etc.

In Mourinho's first season at Chelsea he brought in 6 players for about £70m.....Drogba, Essien, Carvalho, Ferreira, Tiago and Kezman and managed to gel most of these players into the existing sqaud sufficiently well that they won the league (and league cup).

If we sold Suarez and used that money added to a kitty of say £30m and bought Sanchez, Lallana, Lovren, Can, Markovic and Origi I reckon we will actually improve on last season.

A lot of people on the forum raved last summer about the spurs signing, of course with hindsight they now seem like duds! Juve sold zidane and brought buffon, Thurum and nedevd with the monies so of course this kind of change is possible.

Also spending 70 million in 2004 is a bit different to having the same amount in 2013/14. A Drogba in todays world would alone would go for 40/50 million - see Cavanni

 

[Frogfish]

I have to agree with you Pesam. We'd replace Suarez goals by spreading them around. Add Shaquiri to that list of players.

Shaqiri is surely an either/or with Markovic.

 

[rubans]

I have to agree with you Pesam. We'd replace Suarez goals by spreading them around. Add Shaquiri to that list of players.

Isn't that what Spurs said last season 🙂

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Isn't that what Spurs said last season 🙂

Just because Spurs failed to get it right, doesn't mean everyone else won't. Spurs are likely to get better this year, and remember they only finished one place lower and three points lower than the previous season. They won exactly as many games last year in the league as they did the year before. It wasn't as catastrophic as some people seem to think.

If we sold Suarez and only finished three points off this seasons total, we'd have done pretty well.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

Just because Spurs failed to get it right, doesn't mean everyone else won't. Spurs are likely to get better this year, and remember they only finished one place lower and three points lower than the previous season. They won exactly as many games last year in the league as they did the year before. It wasn't as catastrophic as some people seem to think.

If we sold Suarez and only finished three points off this seasons total, we'd have done pretty well.

Pretty much this. A lot has been said about them not replacing Bale properly, especially in terms of his match-winning crunch time goals. That's true of course. However, if we deep a bit deeper, we'll see that losing Bale was just one part of the problem. The other part was losing the goals from Dempsey and Defoe (18 altogether):

2012/2013: Bale (21), Defoe (11), Dempsey (7), Adebayor (5)
2013/2014: Adebayor (11), Eriksen (7), Paulinho (6), Soldado (6), Lamela (0)

Adebayor was pretty much in the doghouse until Sherwood took over, and then responded with 11 goals in 21 games. A misuse of resources and a fair bit of his own sulk as well. He's not everyone's favourite cup of tea (not mine too), but he does know how to score some, having scored 17 in 33 games under Redknapp. Villas-Boas took over and he went down to 5 in 25. Then Sherwood took over and he went back to 11 in 21. Defoe was also pretty much marginalized in the last season as well before he went to the MLS.

As we can see, Eriksen and Paulinho actually chipped in with goals to help cushion the losses a bit, but the two major busts were clearly Soldado and Lamela. Between them, they couldn't even come up with 15 goals, which is ridiculous. Will be interesting to see if Soldado picks up this season - was last season a blip?