It'll be someone like Arroyo, but the cynical bastard in me wants to start throwing around Mark Gonzalez and Sebastian Leto
Alex is....?
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With all due respect, who the fuck is Arroyo and why don't I know what he looks like?
I actually liked big Seb, we let go of him too soon.
Criminal he didn't feature more in that catastrophe of a side back then.
We need to target the midfielders and forwards they have, that's what the south Americans are renown for.
When you think Chile you think Vargas Sanchez Vidal Medel
When you think Peru you think Carrillo, Farfan, Guerriero Tapia
When you think Brazil you (mainly) think Neymar Ronaldinho Kaka Firmino Coutinho Casemiro
When you think Argentina you think Martinez Alvarez Messi Di Maria Aguero Tevez Masch
When you think Uruguay you think NUUUUUUNEZ Cavani Falcao Suarez Valverde
Defenders and goalkeepers not so much.
Yup. In the past, Portuguese/Spanish leagues seem to act as "stop-overs" but with the changes regarding work permit qualification, English clubs have gone direct into the S.American market - Brighton, Southampton, Nottingham Forest, Wolves (and of cos Man City)
This i whole heartedly agree with
Oh shit and Gabriel Paletta....but he actually seemed shite
That's why I put mainly in brackets, Brazil are Brazil they produce players all over the park for fun but what players do you most remember? The top 2 are Ronaldinho and Kaka. Then it's players like Rivaldo Neymar Casemiro. Carlos is probably 1 exception.
Thing is, every club worth their salt can now afford to send a scout somewhere for months. It's different to back in the day where Calais seemed a far distant place. If they're a potential generaitonal talent (like redondo), he's getting snaffled by the madrids (like rodrygo, vinicius, endrick etc), or Barca. Even city, with their vast wealth and ridiculously strong international setup are ahead. We don't really have the luxury of playing someone like caicedo consistently enough to make them a top class PL target, whereas brighton have that.
The system is shit, but i think we're too late for the bigguns and too big for the littleuns
Not sure I agree Fabio.
I get we'll be competing with the Madrid's and Barca's but not always, those clubs (unlike City) actually have bags of potential within their own and bring a lot of players through their own academy.....this is why a lot of them also end up at Portuguese clubs, how much money have Porto Benfica and Sporting made by attracting these players and flogging them off to Chelsea or Arsenal or somewhere in Spain?
David Neres
David Luiz
Ramires
Willian
Douglas Costa
Fernandinho
Our very own Ali, Lucho and Darwin
Who else?
Eder Militao
Marquinhos
Look how many of them even went to Ukraine, we need to build relationships with these clubs so it's easier to negotiate.
Cafu
Do you know what, I don't hold as high an opinion as Cafu as a lot do I dunno why.
Always comes across tremendously well & I know he featured in some historic sides over the years but his name doesn't spring to my mind when I think of the greats.
I don't put him up there with the likes of Alves Lahm Thuram Zanetti etc as crazy as it sounds.
The question is, would we give these players game time in order to develop? All of those players plied their trade consistently at a decent level before a big side took a punt. We could take that gamble and loan them out; which probably makes the most sense. But then we're spending some of our transfer budget to potentially save ourselves money; when we're shite at spending money to start with! I also think (albeit probably from a place of ignorance), the portuguese and spanish teams have an advantage with some of the south american youth for language reasons. Not every 16/17 year old from the Favelas are potentially fluent in English.
In an ideal world, i agree; it's a market that we need to be going for. Equally, i wouldn't be opposed to looking towards Africa either, as i feel there's some talent there that austrian, French and Belgian teams always seem to snaffle up.
Cafu probably wasn't your standard Brazilian style player. No tricks, no flair, just effective with an engine that never failed. For me he absolutely is up there with the best.
We should yes because we should know by now they're clearly good enough to make that step.
I'd be more than happy to sign some 20/21 year old who's maybe only played 50 games in the Chilean or Argentinian league and put them straight in.
Masch did it. Lucas did it. Jesus and Alvarez did it for City.
For me I believe if you're good enough you'll make the adaptation quickly enough.
I think there's this false stereotype that there's so many factors for a player to make it in a new league/system etc.
Adapting to a new league from overseas in particular is only as complicated as you make it....we have the perfect coaching team to develop these players and get them straight into the mix.
Adapting to a new league from overseas in particular is only as complicated as you make it....we have the perfect coaching team to develop these players and get them straight into the mix.
I agree there are success stories, but theres also tons that don't and we've named some in this thread. Paletta, Coates, Gonzalez, Leto etc. We're not really in a position to let people find their feet as we're not good enough across a whole team to mask those deficiencies. Or the pressure is too high on us.
For me. Sign them, loan them out. Build a solid relationship with a team in the french/spanish league, and we can mutually assure success.
Our sell to buy model only works when you have players to sell for big fees.....we don't have that now, and these owners won't give Klopp what he needs for us to compete so it's the only viable alternative.
Exactly. Even among the teams which binomial mentions, there is a safety in numbers approach which we cannot do.
For example, he used in past discussions, Alcaraz at Southampton as someone who could have done a job for us. But alongside Alcaraz, they also purchased Kamaldeen Sulemana, Paul Onuachu, Mislav Orsic, James Bree in the January transfer window. We can't afford a one in five success rate.
Brighton: Alongside Caicedo they also bought Jakub Moder, Michal Karbownik, Andi Zeqiri, Jan Paul van Hecke, Joël Veltman, Adam Lallana, Danny Wellbeck, and Robert Sanchez.
Alongside Marc Cucurella and Kaoru Mitoma they also bought Enock Mwepu, Kacper Kozlowski, Abdallah Sima, Deniz Undav, Kjell Scherpen, and Jeremy Sarmiento.
They also have a lot of movement between Union SG and Brighton.
Credit to Brighton for finding a model which works for them. But we cant operate that way.
City and Chelsea have unlimited transfer funds and they can hoard such talents as well as buy first team players. We don't have that luxury.
I was talking specifically talents from South America....that is the market I would like us to explore, there is a massive opportunity for us there & the success rate is usually high.
Caicedo - Hit
Macallister - Hit
Danilo - Hit
Joao Gomes - Hit
Alcaraz - Hit
Enciso - Hit
Jesus - Hit
Alvarez - Hit
& it even goes further back than that with other names mentioned, Masch....Tevez etc
Caicedo - Hit
Macallister - Hit
Danilo - Hit
Joao Gomes - Hit
Alcaraz - Hit
Enciso - Hit
Jesus - Hit
Alvarez - Hit
& it even goes further back than that with other names mentioned, Masch....Tevez etc
In general, I agree with you. South America is an area where we should scout more just because of the sheer quality of footballers they produce. But at the same time, not sure if the success rate is higher or lower. Mac Allister and Caiciedo were signed 3-4 years ago. Unless we have the list of all transfers made from South American clubs, we cannot determine the rate of success.
Caicedo was signed in Jan 2021, he spent a brief spell on loan in Belgium before finishing last season with 8 games for Brighton. Wasn't long at all before he transitioned into a quality player.
Macallister was signed in Jan 2019, I think he was loaned back to Argentina to finish their season and then immediately was part of Brighton's squad and became a regular.....it's not really been until this season where he's attracted large interest....Brighton didn't have to wait 2-3 years before they transitioned into the players they've become, they hit the ground running.
If you're not talking players like Veron or Aguero and players who were signed directly from south america to England, I really don't think there are many.....Like I say it's usually countries like Ukraine Portugal or Spain who snap them up and from there are redistributed for silly money by your powerhouse countries or states like England.
Macallister was signed in Jan 2019, I think he was loaned back to Argentina to finish their season and then immediately was part of Brighton's squad and became a regular.....it's not really been until this season where he's attracted large interest....Brighton didn't have to wait 2-3 years before they transitioned into the players they've become, they hit the ground running.
If you're not talking players like Veron or Aguero and players who were signed directly from south america to England, I really don't think there are many.....Like I say it's usually countries like Ukraine Portugal or Spain who snap them up and from there are redistributed for silly money by your powerhouse countries or states like England.
Awesome post, not sure how their model would work for any current top 5.
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