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You won't like this post

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
... because many of the points will probably go against the grain of most people's reaction to this game. I'll just leave this here as my opinion without intending to get into a big discussion about it. If you disagree, fine.

  1. Sakho had a good game. I don't see how people can blame him for any of the goals – the 2nd one had nothing to do with him, and the first and 3rd were similar in that he happened to be the closest player to Mane, but was in no position to win the ball or block the shot, because everything happened too quickly: we lose the ball – pass to Mane – boom, goal. Put Pique or Thiago Silva in his place and they would not be able to prevent the goal either. Meanwhile throughout the game Sakho was nearly as dominant as in the United game, with plenty of crucial headers, tackles and interceptions. I'm tired of the anti-Sakho brigade using every slightest opportunity to jump on his back.
  2. Skrtel's performance was NOT "career-ending." As a smart manager, I'm sure Klopp will rightly place the blame on himself for subbing in a rusty player in a game that was not really won yet. I have plenty of criticisms of Skrtel's game in general (for instance I think he could have given away that penalty even in the best of form, that's just the way he plays), but you can't judge him by this performance any more than you can judge Sakho by the horror-show he produced on his come-back from a long-term injury or Hendo's or Sturridge's insipid performances of late. He was far from his best and we got punished; in hindsight Klopp should have picked Toure. Oh, and Lovren was all over the place too.
  3. Allen did not do himself any favors. Many people selected him as one of their top 3 – for me this game just confirmed the problem I've always had with Allen. He looks good when the team plays well, but he doesn't have the quality or the character to lift his team when things are going wrong and this game was the perfect illustration. We need winners, not passengers – especially in a position as influential as a midfield playmaker. He can be an impact player, but not a starter for LFC.
  4. Lallana was in inspirational form. This was probably the best I've seen him play for Liverpool, he was just all over the place (in a good sense), from winning the ball to set up Coutinho's first to playing a perfectly-timed (not always the case with Lallana) pass for Benteke. His big weakness of not having the upper body strength to hold up the ball with was still there, but in this game he was almost always able to do something with the ball before any defender could touch him.
  5. Firmino was no big miss and Origi and Sturridge need to play together more often. I said it before, I don't see much evidence of any positive chemistry between Firmino and Sturridge. So far, they seem to like to occupy the same spaces, make the same passes and runs and just get in each other's way. On the contrary, Origi and Sturridge's games complement each other quite well. They lit up Saints for 6 goals last time they played together and yesterday Klopp could be forgiven for leaving 2 strikers on the pitch, because we looked like we could score in every attack. As for Firmino and Sturridge, maybe with time and coaching they will understand how to play with each other as they are both intelligent players, but for now I actually think Origi-Firmino or Origi-Sturridge pairings are more threatening than Sturridge-Firmino.
  6. Let's not forget everything good about this performance because of a few mistakes at the back (and clinical finishing by Mane, who must wish he could play us every week). Ming saved a penalty, Flanno was positive in attack and of course congrats on captaining LFC (although I was thinking "WTF" when I saw him wearing the armband), Clyne bounced back from his bad performance, Can was as good as ever, counter-attacks started resembling Dortmund for the first time this season. I gave up any hope of top-4 long time ago, so I feel quite relaxed about a crazy game that gives our manager some food for thought – and even though we we on the wrong end of the result, it was a highly enjoyable and thrilling game of football. Isn't that the whole point?
 
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the whole point of supporting Liverpool is 'highly enjoyable and thrilling football'?

I'd prefer the points

As for the rest of your post, it's at best half-right. Which seems generous, actually
 
3. The problem with Allen is his size and lack of physical strength really. Wanyama bossed him physically and he didn't recover. To cope with Allen you just need to get physical. In the first half when we were sharp and quick everything was dandy, the opponents couldn't get near and Allen looked good. 2nd half when we start tiring everything slowed down and he was ineffective.
 
1. Sakho is a crap defender. Doesn't matter if he had a good game or not.

2. True, Skrtel had an off day.

3. Allen isn't good enough

4. Lallana isn't good enough

5. Sure

6. Nah, don't care, we shouldn't be dropping a 2-0 lead.
 
I have a problem with describing anyone inspirational after throwing away a two goal lead.

Clearly nobody was inspired
 
1 - Agreed, Sakho may be the fall guy but he wasnt actually at fault for any of the goals
2 - No it wasnt career ending, but it was a horror show. You know a performance is wretched when people think 'Wht did he take off Lovren'
3 - Allen was really good for the first 40 minutes, shite for the entire second half
4 - 'Inspirational' Lallana was much the same. Thats an adjective usually reserved for a player who inspires a victory not a total collapse
5 - Firmino is a great outlet, who represents a real goal threat. To say hes not missed is ludicrous considering the lack of goals we have in this team
6 - Flanno was poor, shunting Clyne to the left to accommodate him makes no sense. Rodgersesque
 
One game might not be career ending but Skrtel is the CB that should be sold this summer. I'd rather have Sakho, Gomez, Lovren and Matip.
 
Not only was Skrtel's performance way below par but he also affected the players around him adversely. His reliance on retreating when someone runs at him rather than standing his ground and actually making a tackle was as worrying as it has been for some time. Not only did Allen play poorly in the second half but Can (who's been great recently) had no influence defensively in the second half.
Klopp fucked up by bringing him on too early but one player shouldn't affect the team so much and that suggests there was a lack of leadership on the park and Flanno couldn't provide it unfortunately.
Sturridge should have been replaced earlier as he wasn't holding the ball up at all and very rarely made any effort to close the Southampton players down which meant the ball kept coming back at us. Origi did okay when holding the ball up but lacked support.
I was surprised at how tired the players looked in the second half considering we had a clear weekend the week before. Maybe the Utd game took more out of them than it looked but whatever the reason was we wilted physically after half time and couldn't match them for pace, power or strength.
 
Not only was Skrtel's performance way below par but he also affected the players around him adversely. His reliance on retreating when someone runs at him rather than standing his ground and actually making a tackle was as worrying as it has been for some time.

Why is anyone getting to run at our centre backs is the question that needs answering for me.
 
I like the post. Dont agree with Firmino comment. His energy and movement was missed but all in all well summarized. The gung ho on the internet by fans for a poor half an hour after a good period is nonsence behaviour. Klopp is a smart manager and will find out why we faltered and correct it. It will not happened again.
 
Why is anyone getting to run at our centre backs is the question that needs answering for me.
When the team was walking off at half time i couldn't help but notice that they all looked shattered. I've no idea if they were tired but it would explain the lethargic display in the second half.
 
When the team was walking off at half time i couldn't help but notice that they all looked shattered. I've no idea if they were tired but it would explain the lethargic display in the second half.

Well they have 15 minutes to put them in ice water, or give them potassium, or placenta. There must be some way to recover their energy in that time. A german masseuse. Having them sit on a bench and listen to instructions does nothing to help them recover and would just make them mentally tired as well as physically.
 
The elephant in the room that's missing from the first post is that Klopp didn't manage the second half well. It's okay, he's human - he makes mistakes in judging the flow of the game or the fitness or ability of his players, or even losing track of time. It's okay to point out that his lack of timely or correct adjustments cost us the momentum or initiative in the game. He's not fucking larger than life and he's said so himself.

You screwed up, Jurgen. Now bring back the EL trophy as atonement.
 
Why is anyone getting to run at our centre backs is the question that needs answering for me.

Yes, when you remove Henderson's energy and actual physical presence from the midfield, and there's also no Milner, it's quite obvious that there's too much space and time for the opposition. Koeman saw that and brought Wanyama in to exploit it, and that's where the game was lost. Can has that presence certainly, but he can't do it on his own, and he also lacks that immediate burst of pace and quick movement to snuff out attacks as they build momentum, and snap into tackles.

Hopefully it will finally put to bed any lingering thought that Joe Allen is good enough to start games for Liverpool. He's fine when it's all going well, but as soon as the opposition get any momentum going, he lacks the ability to turn the tide and simply starts flailing around.

Obviously the defence didn't play well at all, and Skrtel was abysmal when he came on, but we lost that game in the middle and up front, because we made it too easy for them to build attacks and simply charge at our wobbling defence, who are not a solid and dependable unit even at the best of times.
 
I thought we lost it in the first half by not punishing them properly.

We did the same against United and got away with it.
 
I thought we lost it in the first half by not punishing them properly.

We did the same against United and got away with it.

If that was the case we'd have won 2-0. We lost because we gave up the midfield, our defence was shite, we didn't work hard enough and Klopp made the wrong substitutions at the wrong time. Starting the game without Milner, Henderson, Firmino and Moreno was always going to be tough, and so it proved.

I don't accept any of the bollocks spouted by Dreamy and co about how we picked the right side and certain things let us down. You pick the team to win the match, which lasts for 90 minutes, not 45.

We lost and deserved to lose. That's on the team who started and Klopp. They weren't good enough. The only players to come out of that debacle with any credit are Sturridge, Coutinho, Lallana, Can and maybe Origi. And the attacking players dropped their work rate in the second half too, which allowed Wanyama to dictate.

Sakho wasn;t helped by Lovren and the disaster area of Skrtel, but he was no better than mediocre too, getting nowhere near close bough to Mane, and beaten easily on several occasions.
 
Should have been a goal and a man down after ten mins. Got away with it in the first half, shame we didn't in the second. Fair result, they looked knackered. I know they had last weekend off, they've also played more games in 2016 than any other side in Europe, and it showed.
 
Brendan - I think theres a case to be had there, in that we didn't punish them in the first half. I get why we ultimately lost, but we'd have deflated them had we ran away with it. Like we used to do in 12/13. I know thats probably symptomatic of our inability to rely on our backline, but that's where we're at. Mentally frail and completely inconsistent.

I think we missed Firmino, and I suspect Klopp is already having reservations about how much he can get out of Sturridge in a setup that requires pressing from the front. It's already part of the reason Benteke doesn't get a look in. Sturridge has pace and fantastic finishing ability, but in phases of play where we're under the kosh, he offers no protection from the front.
 
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This result showed yet again how inconsistent we are (we can't even put 2 consistent halves together) and this still stems from the mental frailty of the side.

Serves as a reminder to Jurgen that it needs surgery in the summer to develop a backbone.

I'm still hoping that Danny Ings will recover fully for pre-season because this would have been one of those games where he might have made a big difference coming on, to run them ragged up front.
 
... but we lost that game in the middle and up front, because we made it too easy for them to build attacks and simply charge at our wobbling defence, who are not a solid and dependable unit even at the best of times.

The only players to come out of that debacle with any credit are Sturridge, Coutinho, Lallana, Can and maybe Origi. And the attacking players dropped their work rate in the second half too, which allowed Wanyama to dictate.

Here's what you just said:

1. We lost that game cos of our mids and forwards.
2. Best players on the pitch for us: all or mids and forwards.
3. But yeah, we lost that cos of our mids and forwards.

Brilliant.
 
Here's what you just said:

1. We lost that game cos of our mids and forwards.
2. Best players on the pitch for us: all or mids and forwards.
3. But yeah, we lost that cos of our mids and forwards.

Brilliant.

I was trying to absolve some of the defensive blame given that Allen was physically dominated by Wanyama, and the forwards didn't make his life difficult enough.

And it was clear that Sakho and co were left rather exposed by the free run given Pelle and Mane. But clearly the most culpable were the defence, hence they didn't come out with any credit at all, whereas at least some of our attacking players did their main job: scoring goals, and some credit.

Hope that helps
 
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