Would you?

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47904.msg1442776#msg1442776 date=1323774793]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47904.msg1442746#msg1442746 date=1323772148]
Yeah, I think everyone is agreed that we paid too much and that it was a panic buy. That doesn't mean we should sell quickly though when his value is probably at it's lowest.
[/quote]

i'm not totally convinced it was a panic buy, at least not totally. i think - at least it's been said - that he'd already been lined up as a target for the summer. and i still don't think Kenny necessarily deserves much of the blame for it. did FSG really put their trust in the judgement of a temporary appointment, who'd been in the job for about 2 weeks, to the tune of £35m?! seems highly doubtful to me.
[/quote]

I think there are two big reasons we bought carroll

1. we were desparate.
2. the club needed a 'pick-me-up' after it's favorite son (maybe not 'favorite' but you know what I mean) had left for chelsea. that is a kick in the fucking balls.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind if n'castle had knocked us back and we carried on with only suarez we would NOT have purchased carroll in the summer. no way.

 

[LadyRed]

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47904.msg1442689#msg1442689 date=1323767984]
Get Torres back for 15 million after selling Carroll for 15 million?

Yes?

No?

Dunno?

(where is the poll apps?)

[/quote]


Eh all day long, anyone who says otherwise is mental or just lying to themselves.

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=47904.msg1442782#msg1442782 date=1323775580]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=47904.msg1442689#msg1442689 date=1323767984]
Get Torres back for 15 million after selling Carroll for 15 million?

Yes?

No?

Dunno?

(where is the poll apps?)

[/quote]


Eh all day long, anyone who says otherwise is mental or just lying to themselves.
[/quote]

Exactly this. The talent is still there, you can see it when he plays for Chelsea, he just has no confidence and doesn't feel comfortable in the enviroment and because of that he fluffs his lines, it's the way he's always been. He'd regain all of that confidence and comfort if you came back here, we all saw how happy he was talking with Maxi, Lucas and co after the game. I'd be estatic if he came back in January. Like Anita says, stop lying to yourself people, forgive and forget.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47904.msg1442781#msg1442781 date=1323775344]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47904.msg1442776#msg1442776 date=1323774793]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47904.msg1442746#msg1442746 date=1323772148]
Yeah, I think everyone is agreed that we paid too much and that it was a panic buy. That doesn't mean we should sell quickly though when his value is probably at it's lowest.
[/quote]

i'm not totally convinced it was a panic buy, at least not totally. i think - at least it's been said - that he'd already been lined up as a target for the summer. and i still don't think Kenny necessarily deserves much of the blame for it. did FSG really put their trust in the judgement of a temporary appointment, who'd been in the job for about 2 weeks, to the tune of £35m?! seems highly doubtful to me.
[/quote]

I think there are two big reasons we bought carroll

1. we were desparate.
2. the club needed a 'pick-me-up' after it's favorite son (maybe not 'favorite' but you know what I mean) had left for chelsea. that is a kick in the fucking balls.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind if n'castle had knocked us back and we carried on with only suarez we would NOT have purchased carroll in the summer. no way.
[/quote]

you could be right, but why do you think that? personally i think it could well have happened, tho obv not for £35m. i think he fits into the pattern of the sort of players we targeted in the summer, and comolli (not to assume he has any more influence than Kenny, btw) has a record of going for good solid (but sometimes uninspiring) young english players.

 

[LadyRed]

And I've tried to champion the whole 'Carroll wil come good, we have to believe in him' party line, but honestly I can't see it. It's not just the goals that's the problem, his lack of mobility, his poor touch and just general all round clumsiness. He is a type of number 9 that isn't suited to the way we play. The only way we can make him work is if we're willing to lob it up to him a bit more, and I don't want to see it. I think we've got a few decent footballers right now, who actually play the ball, we can actually retain possession quite well, I'm not willing to see us lose that style of play to make things work for Carroll. That style of play, the movement with Suarez, Maxi, Kuyt, with Lucas, Adam, Gerrard servicing works beautifully. And we all know Torres would fit into it way better than Carroll can.


Torres is still in a little bitch in my book though.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47904.msg1442787#msg1442787 date=1323775981]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47904.msg1442781#msg1442781 date=1323775344]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47904.msg1442776#msg1442776 date=1323774793]
[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47904.msg1442746#msg1442746 date=1323772148]
Yeah, I think everyone is agreed that we paid too much and that it was a panic buy. That doesn't mean we should sell quickly though when his value is probably at it's lowest.
[/quote]

i'm not totally convinced it was a panic buy, at least not totally. i think - at least it's been said - that he'd already been lined up as a target for the summer. and i still don't think Kenny necessarily deserves much of the blame for it. did FSG really put their trust in the judgement of a temporary appointment, who'd been in the job for about 2 weeks, to the tune of £35m?! seems highly doubtful to me.
[/quote]

I think there are two big reasons we bought carroll

1. we were desparate.
2. the club needed a 'pick-me-up' after it's favorite son (maybe not 'favorite' but you know what I mean) had left for chelsea. that is a kick in the fucking balls.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind if n'castle had knocked us back and we carried on with only suarez we would NOT have purchased carroll in the summer. no way.
[/quote]

you could be right, but why do you think that? personally i think it could well have happened, tho obv not for £35m. i think he fits into the pattern of the sort of players we targeted in the summer, and comolli (not to assume he has any more influence than Kenny, btw) has a record of going for good solid (but sometimes uninspiring) young english players.
[/quote]

I say that because if we hadn't have managed to get carroll and then suarez had hit the ground running (as he did) together with our style of play (neat little triangles near the opposition goal) then we would have maybe gone for a striker that compliements that. we bought carroll so it natually followed you need a winger to compliement him.

our set up is built around suarez I think kenny had in mind to build the set up around carroll.

 

[peterhague]

right, but that's kind of avoiding the original point/question, isn't it? which is that i'm not convinced he was purely a panic buy because i think it's possible that Kenny had very little say in targeting him (seee earlier post for reasons why) which means it was comolli, which means it's more likely to have been planned for a while (because comolli had been there a couple of months, and had time to make a few plans), which means that we genuinely wanted him which means we could have gone on and bought him in the summer. the fact that he wouldn't have fit into the team in summer 2011 is surely a bit irrelevant because he also didn't fit into the team in january 2011.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I'm sure we had looked at him before, but the price we paid for him was a panic price. I don't think at the start of January did anyone in the club think we were going to buy Carroll for anything close to 35m.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47904.msg1442804#msg1442804 date=1323776983]
I'm sure we had looked at him before, but the price we paid for him was a panic price. I don't think at the start of January did anyone in the club think we were going to buy Carroll for anything close to 35m.
[/quote]

well, yeah, but come on, no-one's gonna disagree with that.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I didn't realise the idea was to post stuff that people would disagree with 😉

 

[spider-Neil]

carroll is suffering from the exact same problem as keane, he just doesn't fit our style of play and we lose more than we gain by changing that style of play to suit him.

unlike a lot of people I don't think it's a lack of ability I just think one style suits him. for example, carra is what he is, an excellent defender but if we changed the style of play to perhaps defend high up the pitch and to commit more bodies to the attack then he would be horribly exposed, that doesn't suddenly mean carra is rubbish but playing in that manner isn't playing to his strengths.

I think carroll was and is a good striker but he just doesn't fit our most effective style of play

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Do you all think we have actually paid £35mil for him, or could there be loads of add ons?

I was watching LFC TV last night and some lower league scouse manager was suggesting that so far nobody knows what we've paid for him.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47904.msg1442814#msg1442814 date=1323777977]
Do you all think we have actually paid £35mil for him, or could there be loads of add ons?

I was watching LFC TV last night and some lower league scouse manager was suggesting that so far nobody knows what we've paid for him.
[/quote]

i think it's probably pretty solidly £35m as a liability - even JWH talked openly about the £15m differential between it and the Torres fee; maybe Torres didn't go for quite £50m, but the fees certainly won't be far off imfo.

 

[Rosco]

The Newcastle CEO was pretty emphatic about it being 35m recently. And it was all paid up front - so he's not a liability (in accounting terms)

 

[the_khl]

...............................Carroll..................................
Suarez.......................................................Shaqiri
.....................Adam.......Henderson.......................
...........................Lucas.......................................

 

[Mystic]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=47904.msg1442842#msg1442842 date=1323779844]
...............................Torres..................................
Suarez.......................................................Shaqiri
.....................Adam.......Henderson.......................
...........................Lucas.......................................
[/quote]

 

[Rosco]

And to answer the topic at hand, no I do not want to see us pay any money at all for a broken, up his own arse striker who can't score.

 

[themn]

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47904.msg1442841#msg1442841 date=1323779742]
The Newcastle CEO was pretty emphatic about it being 35m recently. And it was all paid up front - so he's not a liability (in accounting terms)
[/quote]

IT WAS ALL PAID UP FRONT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

WORST. DEAL. EVER.

FUCKING EVER.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47904.msg1442847#msg1442847 date=1323780165]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47904.msg1442841#msg1442841 date=1323779742]
The Newcastle CEO was pretty emphatic about it being 35m recently. And it was all paid up front - so he's not a liability (in accounting terms)
[/quote]

IT WAS ALL PAID UP FRONT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

WORST. DEAL. EVER.

FUCKING EVER.
[/quote]

Surpassed only by the 50m Chelsea gave us up front for Nando.

 

[peterhague]

hmmm, fair point i guess.

still, though. i actually think i already knew that, tbh - it was that Llambias interview, right? i'd just obv blocked it out from sheer trauma.

 

[FoxForceFive]

The owners bought carroll to put fans ease regards them selling a fans favourite. Had they not have done many fans would have questioned their motives behind the sale and where the money would end up.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47904.msg1442855#msg1442855 date=1323780595]
The owners bought carroll to put fans ease regards them selling a fans favourite. Had they not have done many fans would have questioned their motives behind the sale and where the money would end up.
[/quote]

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[the_khl]

Is Torres going to be the Ian Rush of the 20th century then? (I know in somewhat smaller terms but still...)

I'd love it.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=47904.msg1442855#msg1442855 date=1323780595]
The owners bought carroll to put fans ease regards them selling a fans favourite. Had they not have done many fans would have questioned their motives behind the sale and where the money would end up.
[/quote]

absolutely foxy.

 

[Y1]

Yes
Y1, Anita, Themn, Mystic, KHL

No
Fabio, El Pistol, St George, Mama, Rosco

Dunno (Indecisive quiffers and uncommitted campers)
Gerry, Refugee, Asbo, Avvy, Peterhague, Spidey, K4PM, FFF

 

[the_khl]

Take him back for the surplus of their January-deals (Carroll and Torres) and we'd be with Torres again and have at the same time got Carroll on a free like.

 

[themn]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=47904.msg1442859#msg1442859 date=1323780682]
Is Torres going to be the Ian Rush of the 20th century then? (I know in somewhat smaller terms but still...)

I'd love it.
[/quote]

No, because Ian Rush is the Ian Rush of the 20th Century.

We are now in the second decade of the 21st Century.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=themn link=topic=47904.msg1442882#msg1442882 date=1323781483]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=47904.msg1442859#msg1442859 date=1323780682]
Is Torres going to be the Ian Rush of the 20th century then? (I know in somewhat smaller terms but still...)

I'd love it.
[/quote]

No, because Ian Rush is the Ian Rush of the 20th Century.

We are now in the second decade of the 21st Century.
[/quote]
Cheers mate. I've never been good with Centuries.

Torres will be the Rush of the 21st Century then?

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47904.msg1442847#msg1442847 date=1323780165]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47904.msg1442841#msg1442841 date=1323779742]
The Newcastle CEO was pretty emphatic about it being 35m recently. And it was all paid up front - so he's not a liability (in accounting terms)
[/quote]

IT WAS ALL PAID UP FRONT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

WORST. DEAL. EVER.

FUCKING EVER.
[/quote]

Well thats pissed on that slim hope then.