Wigan Vs Liverpool.
- Thread starter Oncy
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[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
Yes, all these factors will realign the gozzy twats' eyes.
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
Yes, all these factors will realign the gozzy twats' eyes.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=42681.msg1215757#msg1215757 date=1289428860]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
Yes, all these factors will realign the gozzy twats' eyes.
[/quote]I love it. Its the best argument ever. *passing improves*
Genius.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
Yes, all these factors will realign the gozzy twats' eyes.
[/quote]I love it. Its the best argument ever. *passing improves*
Genius.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
if your team mates are 5 yards away from you rather than 20 it is going to be easier find them with a pass. hilarious that you find the obvious funny.
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
if your team mates are 5 yards away from you rather than 20 it is going to be easier find them with a pass. hilarious that you find the obvious funny.
Neil, it's not about defending deep. That wasn't our problem. A high line might have caught us out with their pace in attack. What we needed was a quicker tempo and for our players to press the ball and not invite the opposition onto us. We didn't put Wigan under pressure when they had it. When we did we regained possession but we had problems keeping it.
A lot of top sides have had bad results against weaker teams so far this season:
Wolves beating City
Bolton beating Spurs
WBA beating Arsenal
Bolton drawing with Utd etc
Yes, Wigan lost 6-0 at home to both Blackpool and Chelsea, but they're one of those teams who can be shite one week and very good the next. Unfortunately tonight, we encouraged and allowed them to be very good. We were lucky to get a draw in the end, and I think we have to just move on and try to regain the confidence we had before this game.
Wolves beating City
Bolton beating Spurs
WBA beating Arsenal
Bolton drawing with Utd etc
Yes, Wigan lost 6-0 at home to both Blackpool and Chelsea, but they're one of those teams who can be shite one week and very good the next. Unfortunately tonight, we encouraged and allowed them to be very good. We were lucky to get a draw in the end, and I think we have to just move on and try to regain the confidence we had before this game.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
there is no argument to be had, if we hold a high line our attack will improve, it really is as simple as fucking that the question is are we prepared to take the consequences of getting caught on the break? well, obviously not.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215760#msg1215760 date=1289428953]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
if your team mates are 5 years away from you rather than 20 it is going to be easier find them with a pass. hilarious that you find the obvious funny.
[/quote]So you think that in 45 metres congested with 21 players in it our players who for 90 minutes barely made a pass between them would suddenly find it easier than passing in a hundred metre space with no congestion?
Thats a laughable premise.
And let me ask you what exactly happens in your scenario when one (unlikely as this is given how *passing has improved*) of our lads *shockingly* missplaces a pass and the midlielder of wigan flicks the ball over our *high* backline into the 30 yards of space before our goal?
I'll give you a lil ole pop quiz.
Who gets to that ball first? N'zogbia or Carragher?
I'd fucking LOVE to play your team at football.
'Right lads, move up the pitch en masse and....errr.........pass better.'
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
if your team mates are 5 years away from you rather than 20 it is going to be easier find them with a pass. hilarious that you find the obvious funny.
[/quote]So you think that in 45 metres congested with 21 players in it our players who for 90 minutes barely made a pass between them would suddenly find it easier than passing in a hundred metre space with no congestion?
Thats a laughable premise.
And let me ask you what exactly happens in your scenario when one (unlikely as this is given how *passing has improved*) of our lads *shockingly* missplaces a pass and the midlielder of wigan flicks the ball over our *high* backline into the 30 yards of space before our goal?
I'll give you a lil ole pop quiz.
Who gets to that ball first? N'zogbia or Carragher?
I'd fucking LOVE to play your team at football.
'Right lads, move up the pitch en masse and....errr.........pass better.'
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]
It must be because holding a high line automatically turns you into Barcelona with the ball at your feet.
Otherwise I'm spectacularly missing something.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]
It must be because holding a high line automatically turns you into Barcelona with the ball at your feet.
Otherwise I'm spectacularly missing something.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]Because they have defenders WITH PACE you unstoppable buffoon.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]Because they have defenders WITH PACE you unstoppable buffoon.
I've skimmed through the last page or so, but it would seem to me that spidey is getting a little unfairly castigated here. If you push higher up the field, trying to win the ball back off the opposition you gain possession in more dangerous areas and they have less time to reorganize their midfield / defence.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215767#msg1215767 date=1289429211]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215760#msg1215760 date=1289428953]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
if your team mates are 5 years away from you rather than 20 it is going to be easier find them with a pass. hilarious that you find the obvious funny.
[/quote]So you think that in 45 metres congested with 21 players in it our players who for 90 minutes barely made a pass between them would suddenly find it easier than passing in a hundred metre space with no congestion?
Thats a laughable premise.
And let me ask you what exactly happens in your scenario when one (unlikely as this is given how *passing has improved*) of our lads *shockingly* missplaces a pass and the midlielder of wigan flicks the ball over our *high* backline into the 30 yards of space before our goal?
I'll give you a lil ole pop quiz.
Who gets to that ball first? N'zogbia or Carragher?
I'd fucking LOVE to play your team at football.
'Right lads, move up the pitch en masse and....errr.........pass better.'
[/quote]
I feel myself getting angry now,
WE HELD A HIGH LINE AT THE WEEKEND AND PICKED OUT TEAM MATES FOR FUN
so what the fucking HELL are you going on about?!! you are fucking arguing for the sake of arguing. saying we will get caught on the counter attack is valid, saying we wont be able to pass because the midfield will be congested is stupid, why wasn't this a problem at the weekend?!!
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215760#msg1215760 date=1289428953]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
if your team mates are 5 years away from you rather than 20 it is going to be easier find them with a pass. hilarious that you find the obvious funny.
[/quote]So you think that in 45 metres congested with 21 players in it our players who for 90 minutes barely made a pass between them would suddenly find it easier than passing in a hundred metre space with no congestion?
Thats a laughable premise.
And let me ask you what exactly happens in your scenario when one (unlikely as this is given how *passing has improved*) of our lads *shockingly* missplaces a pass and the midlielder of wigan flicks the ball over our *high* backline into the 30 yards of space before our goal?
I'll give you a lil ole pop quiz.
Who gets to that ball first? N'zogbia or Carragher?
I'd fucking LOVE to play your team at football.
'Right lads, move up the pitch en masse and....errr.........pass better.'
[/quote]
I feel myself getting angry now,
WE HELD A HIGH LINE AT THE WEEKEND AND PICKED OUT TEAM MATES FOR FUN
so what the fucking HELL are you going on about?!! you are fucking arguing for the sake of arguing. saying we will get caught on the counter attack is valid, saying we wont be able to pass because the midfield will be congested is stupid, why wasn't this a problem at the weekend?!!
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]
You hold a high line if you have a lot of possession, it doesn't work the other way around.
[
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]
You hold a high line if you have a lot of possession, it doesn't work the other way around.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215772#msg1215772 date=1289429376]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]Because they have defenders WITH PACE you unstoppable buffoon.
[/quote]
benitez held a high line with carra and sami so fucking come up with another excuse.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]Because they have defenders WITH PACE you unstoppable buffoon.
[/quote]
benitez held a high line with carra and sami so fucking come up with another excuse.
"Right you lot. Follow me. Up the pitch we go. Not you Sammy. Back in your cage."
Neil's got a point with that it's easier to pass and keep the ball when your players aren't fucking miles apart from each other. That is clear. What is also clear is that the passing doesn't AUTOMATICALLY get better just because the players are closer to each other.. You've got to have greater movement and players doing the tiring and boring runs just to make space for other players. It's quite simple really. We clearly didn't have that kind of energy or mentality that is needed today, except from the first 10 minutes. Instead, we either panicked and hoofed the ball, or sent away hopeful balls down the middle, which just contributed to their pressure.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215771#msg1215771 date=1289429298]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]
It must be because holding a high line automatically turns you into Barcelona with the ball at your feet.
Otherwise I'm spectacularly missing something.
[/quote]
I wasn't saying you become BETTER passers I was saying passing becomes EASIER because you have more options.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]
It must be because holding a high line automatically turns you into Barcelona with the ball at your feet.
Otherwise I'm spectacularly missing something.
[/quote]
I wasn't saying you become BETTER passers I was saying passing becomes EASIER because you have more options.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215774#msg1215774 date=1289429465]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215767#msg1215767 date=1289429211]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215760#msg1215760 date=1289428953]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
if your team mates are 5 years away from you rather than 20 it is going to be easier find them with a pass. hilarious that you find the obvious funny.
[/quote]So you think that in 45 metres congested with 21 players in it our players who for 90 minutes barely made a pass between them would suddenly find it easier than passing in a hundred metre space with no congestion?
Thats a laughable premise.
And let me ask you what exactly happens in your scenario when one (unlikely as this is given how *passing has improved*) of our lads *shockingly* missplaces a pass and the midlielder of wigan flicks the ball over our *high* backline into the 30 yards of space before our goal?
I'll give you a lil ole pop quiz.
Who gets to that ball first? N'zogbia or Carragher?
I'd fucking LOVE to play your team at football.
'Right lads, move up the pitch en masse and....errr.........pass better.'
[/quote]
I feel myself getting angry now,
WE HELD A HIGH LINE AT THE WEEKEND AND PICKED OUT TEAM MATES FOR FUN
so what the fucking HELL are you going on about?!! you are fucking arguing for the sake of arguing. saying we will get caught on the counter attack is valid, saying we wont be able to pass because the midfield will be congested is stupid, why wasn't this a problem at the weekend?!!
[/quote]Jesus Christ its like talking to custard. We held a high line (in the first half) at the weekend because we were playing well and NOT giving the ball away constantly. Our defenders trusted in the front players to maintain possession and not have continual pacy attacks thrust at them out of position. In the second half we were not keeping possession so the defenders dropped deep to stop Anelka and Malouda skinning them. JUST like they did tonight.
Controlling the football allows you to dictate tactics, not will alone. Just saying 'Push up and pass better' doesnt fucking make it so.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215767#msg1215767 date=1289429211]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215760#msg1215760 date=1289428953]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215756#msg1215756 date=1289428783]
*Passing improves*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[/quote]
if your team mates are 5 years away from you rather than 20 it is going to be easier find them with a pass. hilarious that you find the obvious funny.
[/quote]So you think that in 45 metres congested with 21 players in it our players who for 90 minutes barely made a pass between them would suddenly find it easier than passing in a hundred metre space with no congestion?
Thats a laughable premise.
And let me ask you what exactly happens in your scenario when one (unlikely as this is given how *passing has improved*) of our lads *shockingly* missplaces a pass and the midlielder of wigan flicks the ball over our *high* backline into the 30 yards of space before our goal?
I'll give you a lil ole pop quiz.
Who gets to that ball first? N'zogbia or Carragher?
I'd fucking LOVE to play your team at football.
'Right lads, move up the pitch en masse and....errr.........pass better.'
[/quote]
I feel myself getting angry now,
WE HELD A HIGH LINE AT THE WEEKEND AND PICKED OUT TEAM MATES FOR FUN
so what the fucking HELL are you going on about?!! you are fucking arguing for the sake of arguing. saying we will get caught on the counter attack is valid, saying we wont be able to pass because the midfield will be congested is stupid, why wasn't this a problem at the weekend?!!
[/quote]Jesus Christ its like talking to custard. We held a high line (in the first half) at the weekend because we were playing well and NOT giving the ball away constantly. Our defenders trusted in the front players to maintain possession and not have continual pacy attacks thrust at them out of position. In the second half we were not keeping possession so the defenders dropped deep to stop Anelka and Malouda skinning them. JUST like they did tonight.
Controlling the football allows you to dictate tactics, not will alone. Just saying 'Push up and pass better' doesnt fucking make it so.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215776#msg1215776 date=1289429540]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215772#msg1215772 date=1289429376]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]Because they have defenders WITH PACE you unstoppable buffoon.
[/quote]
benitez held a high line with carra and sami so fucking come up with another excuse.
[/quote]Did he fuck.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215772#msg1215772 date=1289429376]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215763#msg1215763 date=1289429053]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215752#msg1215752 date=1289428698]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215743#msg1215743 date=1289428305]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215731#msg1215731 date=1289427746]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42681.msg1215712#msg1215712 date=1289427265]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215708#msg1215708 date=1289427119]
these are our attacking players
torres
gerrard
kuyt
maxi
these are our tactics (whatever the tactics are on the day)
it's up to YOU to attempt to stop US.
in an ideal world this would be our mentality for the majority of our games, instead we look at the opposition and set up OUR team to stop THEM regardless if it negates our ability to attack ourselves. it's bullshit and has seen us lose points hand over fucking fist.
[/quote]
It's amazing that you come out with this AND you love Benitez.
[/quote]
I had my problems with rafa but the majority of times I watched games under rafa we were pretty much controlling the game but poor finishig, sloopy defending, whatever made points slip away. in what shape or form were we controlling the game today?
the reason I dislike roy so much is because the majority of time there is no rhyme or reason to his tactics, unless he WANTS the midfield to act like disjointed strangers.
[/quote]
The majority of the time under Rafa we set ourselves up to counter the oppositions strengths rather than play to our own. You idolise Rafa, and now criticise Roy for apparently doing the same.
Can you explain how our defence standing higher up the pitch means that Wigan now all of a sudden have to deal with Torres and Gerrard ?
There doesn't appear to be an ounce of logic in it.
[/quote]
* we push up the pitch
* the defense pushes the midfield closer to the attack
* the midfield becomes more compact because everyone is closer together
* passing improves
* the need to be direct (hoof) is lessended because the defenders are on the toes of the midfielders
* the strikers have more support because the midfield are closer
* the opposition have have to make decisions who to pick up rather than the easy choice of the isolated striker.
no logic? defending deep has even less logic when you consider how many of our players are negated by standing on the toes of the keeper.
obviously there is greater risk but do we want those 3 points or not? do we want to make the CL or not?
[/quote]
Our passing improves when we're closer to the opposition and we have less room to manouver in ? Really ? Why do every single team on the planet find it harder to work in the final third of the pitch then ?
Others have already pointed out the silliness in playing a defence that's vulnerable to pace higher up the pitch, in fact if you want an example of what would happen you could probably have a look at Inter Milan's game against Spurs last week. A player who was handled capably in recent weeks by Rafael, Phil Neville and some unknown Scandinavian last weekend turns into a world beater.
[/quote]
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]Because they have defenders WITH PACE you unstoppable buffoon.
[/quote]
benitez held a high line with carra and sami so fucking come up with another excuse.
[/quote]Did he fuck.
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=42681.msg1215775#msg1215775 date=1289429532]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]
You hold a high line if you have a lot of possession, it doesn't work the other way around.
[/quote]
I will definately conceed that often the quality of the opposition will force you deeper, pretty much what happened in the second half v chelsea but we need to set out our stall FIRST to impose ourselves FIRST that why YOU get to dictate the tempo of the game.
today we conceed ground to wigan because we were scared of getting caught on the counter rather than pushing up in an attempt to kill the game. had we push up secured the 2nd and THEN put bodies behind the ball here would be less to complain about.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42681.msg1215769#msg1215769 date=1289429236]
[
every team that holds a high line is vulnerable to the counter attack, why does ANY team hold a high line?
[/quote]
You hold a high line if you have a lot of possession, it doesn't work the other way around.
[/quote]
I will definately conceed that often the quality of the opposition will force you deeper, pretty much what happened in the second half v chelsea but we need to set out our stall FIRST to impose ourselves FIRST that why YOU get to dictate the tempo of the game.
today we conceed ground to wigan because we were scared of getting caught on the counter rather than pushing up in an attempt to kill the game. had we push up secured the 2nd and THEN put bodies behind the ball here would be less to complain about.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42681.msg1215788#msg1215788 date=1289429835]
Did he fuck.
[/quote]
Yeah, he definitely did - for long stretches we held a high line under Rafa and our offside trap was extremely tight.
We had Alonso dictating the majority of the distribution, and therefore possession, and we were very, very good at getting the ball back when we'd lost it.
Different kettle of fish than now, absolutely, but Rafa had us drilled to play that way a few years ago.
Did he fuck.
[/quote]
Yeah, he definitely did - for long stretches we held a high line under Rafa and our offside trap was extremely tight.
We had Alonso dictating the majority of the distribution, and therefore possession, and we were very, very good at getting the ball back when we'd lost it.
Different kettle of fish than now, absolutely, but Rafa had us drilled to play that way a few years ago.
- Status
