Trent, Salah and VVD

[localny]

Also, Ian Graham, said the data nerds at Liverpool saw the return on investment in wages (for LFC proven players) is much higher than the return on investment in transfers. So paying Trent 2 years wages rather than sell him & raise £50-100M to reinvest in transfers may well make financial sense

Can we draft some rough numbers here to demonstrate?

For example, He likely gets paid UK180,000 a week or UK9.6 a year. That's 20M.
Let's say he would want what UK400,000 a week, 20, 800,000 a year. 41M over two years, 104M over 5 years.

In the last 2 years, Club have saved 20M in ages, for an asset they could have sold for 70M plus?

But we didn't need to pay anything to replace, because we have Conor?
So why not get a fee?

Or are we replacing a guy needing 100M in wages over 5 years with a guy who will be good for say 40M in wages over 5 years.

What am I missing here? @Beamrider

 

[Dreambeliever]

They can't sign anything that is legally binding until 1 January, but that doesn't mean they can't negotiate via intermediaries and get it all agreed in principle. @Woland is absolutely correct in his posts above.
It's a breach of football regulations for there to be direct contact between a club and a player before 1 January, but that's not to say it won't have happened. Proving it is the difficult part. We got in hot water over Virgil because we flew him to Blackpool airport to meet Klopp and then they were spotted together at the Pleasure Beach. I imagine Madrid, who are experts in tapping up, won't have been so careless as to pose for photos with Trent outside the Prado.
But I also don't believe they'll have been reckless enough to sign binding legal agreements ahead of time, which means we have until the New Year to turn his head back. And as I said above, we need to start by reminding him how it felt to win stuff with us.

The only reason Stevie G stayed was because he hadn’t had that feeling with the league for us. I don’t think Trent will care as he’s won it all with us. He’s gone.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Mentioned this before but where's the cunts passion?
Those fuckers beat him twice in the CL final and he decides to join them?!

Yep if I was going to go to Spain it’d be Barcelona.

 

[The Nomad]

When I was younger. I hated the McManaman and Owen transfers. But as I've got older, I can 100% see why they'd at least want to test the waters to see what they'd potentially get elsewhere. I guess following NFL where it's common place for players to talk but ultimately end up staying has swayed me too.

If Trent goes? So what? He gave us more than enough years. All those saying he's going on a free, hes a judas etc.. its not all black and white. We should have been giving him extensions every 2 years if it means that much. We could have inserted release clauses etc. We haven't, some of the blame needs to go on the club.

Salah and Virgil probably sting a bit more for me as we paid fees for them. But again, they are getting older. If the club are only offering 1 year extensions I can understand why they'd want to go too.

I still think two out of three stay. Just not sure which ones.

 

[Brizzle]

Trent hasn’t performed at a level that is worthy of being in our top 4-5 earners.

 

[localny]

When I was younger. I hated the McManaman and Owen transfers. But as I've got older, I can 100% see why they'd at least want to test the waters to see what they'd potentially get elsewhere. I guess following NFL where it's common place for players to talk but ultimately end up staying has swayed me too.

If Trent goes? So what? He gave us more than enough years. All those saying he's going on a free, hes a judas etc.. its not all black and white. We should have been giving him extensions every 2 years if it means that much. We could have inserted release clauses etc. We haven't, some of the blame needs to go on the club.

Salah and Virgil probably sting a bit more for me as we paid fees for them. But again, they are getting older. If the club are only offering 1 year extensions I can understand why they'd want to go too.

I still think two out of three stay. Just not sure which ones.

Trent should definitely GO, if he needs to. BUT NOT on a FREE. We need the cash to buy. It's a real Judas move. Like McMoneyman. At least with Owen we got something.

 

[rubans]

Bradley isn’t the answer though. We will buy someone to replace him regardless.

 

[Markeh]

i think we have to give bradley a run first before we can say that definitively but yea he has not looked great this season

 

[Frogfish]

Oh and I see a few people throwing around the £100m (€120m) asset. As if ANYONE would pay that for TAA.

Most expensive FB transfers:

Hakimi - Inter to PSG - 2021 - €68m
Cancelo - Juve to City - 2019 - €65m
White - Brighton to Arse - 2021 - €59m

Nothing above €40m since then.

Why do people persists with the "£100m asset"? He isn't. No club would ever pay that for him so why quote '£100m'? Is it just to make it sound like he'd be a bigger loss than he actually will be?

 

[Frogfish]

i think we have to give bradley a run first before we can say that definitively but yea he has not looked great this season

This season he hasn't kicked on - there are a lot of weaknesses in his defensive play, wingers go past him far too easily. If TAA goes then I think we'll buy a defensively stronger, but pacy, RB. No idea who that could be - some on here will.

 

[dmishra]

When I was younger. I hated the McManaman and Owen transfers. But as I've got older, I can 100% see why they'd at least want to test the waters to see what they'd potentially get elsewhere. I guess following NFL where it's common place for players to talk but ultimately end up staying has swayed me too.

If Trent goes? So what? He gave us more than enough years. All those saying he's going on a free, hes a judas etc.. its not all black and white. We should have been giving him extensions every 2 years if it means that much. We could have inserted release clauses etc. We haven't, some of the blame needs to go on the club.

Salah and Virgil probably sting a bit more for me as we paid fees for them. But again, they are getting older. If the club are only offering 1 year extensions I can understand why they'd want to go too.

I still think two out of three stay. Just not sure which ones.

I think Trent goes, but Virgil and Salah stay.

I love Trent, but I think him leaving his an inevitability. If the price to win another title is Trent leaving, I'd happily pay that.

It's rank incompetence from the business side of things though.

 

[Brizzle]

Feels harsh to judge Bradley as he’s barely played

 

[The Nomad]

Trent should definitely GO, if he needs to. BUT NOT on a FREE. We need the cash to buy. It's a real Judas move. Like McMoneyman. At least with Owen we got something.

Like I said, the club need to share the responsibility. They could have sold him. It's not a judas move.

To expect he'll sign a contract then be sold, just isn't realistic these days.

 

[MomoWASright]

Feels harsh to judge Bradley as he’s barely played

This. He will not be match fit because he’s not had a run of games. Having a consistent run has helped Tsimikas and he’s shit.

 

[StevieM]

Can we draft some rough numbers here to demonstrate?

For example, He likely gets paid UK180,000 a week or UK9.6 a year. That's 20M.
Let's say he would want what UK400,000 a week, 20, 800,000 a year. 41M over two years, 104M over 5 years.

In the last 2 years, Club have saved 20M in ages, for an asset they could have sold for 70M plus?

But we didn't need to pay anything to replace, because we have Conor?
So why not get a fee?

Or are we replacing a guy needing 100M in wages over 5 years with a guy who will be good for say 40M in wages over 5 years.

What am I missing here? @Beamrider

The thing that’s hard to quantify is his worth to the team in those two years over playing someone who is not as good as him - that’s what you need to factor in.

Big fan of Bradley, but he’s not at Trent’s level.

 

[Woland]

He suits are system, arguably the best wing back in the world, so noone is at his level, certainly noone I know of, and if they do exist they'll be worth zillions. So I'd say keep at all cost. Unfortunately if he's already made his mind up it'll be tough. I heard he's been looking at Zidane's old house in Madrid.

 

[Glen C]

He suits are system, arguably the best wing back in the world, so noone is at his level, certainly noone I know of, and if they do exist they'll be worth zillions. So I'd say keep at all cost. Unfortunately if he's already made his mind up it'll be tough. I heard he's been looking at Zidane's old house in Madrid.

If klopp was still here i'd agree. But slot doesn't give him as much licence to roam forward as klopp did. With the way he plays now he wouldn't be a big a miss. Im still trying to figure out why he wants to go to real madrid who have arguably the best right back in the world in carvajal. Yes i know he's injured for the season and is 32, but he will be their starting right back next season definitely. Unless real madrid are offering him a midfield role.

 

[Woland]

I get what you're saying about the system but he is that talented he could play anywhere on the pitch with the right coaching. He could step in for Salah if he was injured. That hybrid thing last season was a joke, but that's not an actual thing.

 

[StevieM]

If klopp was still here i'd agree. But slot doesn't give him as much licence to roam forward as klopp did. With the way he plays now he wouldn't be a big a miss. Im still trying to figure out why he wants to go to real madrid who have arguably the best right back in the world in carvajal. Yes i know he's injured for the season and is 32, but he will be their starting right back next season definitely. Unless real madrid are offering him a midfield role.

Fuck knows what system RM will be playing next season - zero chance Ancelotti is still manager if they keep on their current trajectory.

If Trentsgoing there it’s for money and fame - not footballing reasons, I’d say - but end of the day, it’s his life.

 

[MomoWASright]

If klopp was still here i'd agree. But slot doesn't give him as much licence to roam forward as klopp did. With the way he plays now he wouldn't be a big a miss. Im still trying to figure out why he wants to go to real madrid who have arguably the best right back in the world in carvajal. Yes i know he's injured for the season and is 32, but he will be their starting right back next season definitely. Unless real madrid are offering him a midfield role.

At that age and with that injury he’s not going to be anywhere near the same player.

 

[Tinto]

Fuck knows what system RM will be playing next season - zero chance Ancelotti is still manager if they keep on their current trajectory.

If Trentsgoing there it’s for money and fame - not footballing reasons, I’d say - but end of the day, it’s his life.

If it’s Xabi, then Trent will be better fit for the wing back role than Carvajal, assuming Trent’s gotten over his dislike for running a lot

 

[StevieM]

If it’s Xabi, then Trent will be better fit for the wing back role than Carvajal, assuming Trent’s gotten over his dislike for running a lot

Lets see if Alonso’s star continues to burn so brightly.

Imagine Trent in a team of other players that don’t fancy tracking back and running much - hel be on loan to Juventus within a season.

 

[Tinto]

If Trent’s distaste for running is a permanent thing, then Slot’s role for him suits him perfectly.

Trent’s gets to stay behind the ball and hit Hollywood passes, only overlapping when there’s a good moment. Plus he even gets to invert into midfield when the tactical situation demands it.

He won’t get this under Xabi

 

[localny]

A mate was telling me at the Brighton game, he watched Salah tracking back and overtaking Trent trotting back on quite a few occasions.

It's a weird one.

End of the day, no one is bigger than the club

 

[Markeh]

i said it on here ages ago that i think he’ll get found out at madrid, alonso being manager wasn’t factored into that but i’m not sure it changes a great deal

 

[localny]

The thing that’s hard to quantify is his worth to the team in those two years over playing someone who is not as good as him - that’s what you need to factor in.

Big fan of Bradley, but he’s not at Trent’s level.

I think it's unquantifiable though, so I'm just focusing on the knowable

 

[Beamrider]

what was the spelling mistake? google didn’t help me

Only a minor one - the final instalment was stated as being in "GPB" and not "GBP". But I remember someone here commenting at the time that they thought the agreement might be fake because there was an error.
The big revelation was confirmation that the basic fee was £70m and not £75m, which one of the Barca directors had already leaked.

 

[Dreambeliever]

i said it on here ages ago that i think he’ll get found out at madrid, alonso being manager wasn’t factored into that but i’m not sure it changes a great deal

Madrid is one of the easiest teams to look good in. 90% of La Liga teams are shite and bend over for Madrid.

Look at Bellingham, looks a world beater there and he’s not that much better than everyone else in the world.

Personally I don’t see Trent going as that big of a loss.

He’s goals and assists have dried up massively in the last two years since he’s developed a chip on his shoulder, he’s still one of the worst full backs in the league defensively (granted he has improved slightly this season) and our new patient possession based football doesn’t allow him to showcase his range of passing as much as yesteryear.

 

[Markeh]

Madrid is one of the easiest teams to look good in. 90% of La Liga teams are shite and bend over for Madrid.

Look at Bellingham, looks a world beater there and he’s not that much better than everyone else in the world.

Personally I don’t see Trent going as that big of a loss.

He’s goals and assists have dried up massively in the last two years since he’s developed a chip on his shoulder, he’s still one of the worst full backs in the league defensively (granted he has improved slightly this season) and our new patient possession based football doesn’t allow him to showcase his range of passing as much as yesteryear.

that may be the case but their fans are unforgiving arseholes that could be on his case pretty quickly, he lives something of a charmed life at liverpool imo and hasn’t had to deal with this side of things.

i also don’t think madrid will indulge any midfield ambitions, lack of effort, freedom to be a creator or forgive defensive duties. their long standing right back has been a grafter, unglamorous but ultra competitive, hard working and ironically an academy graduate. it’s not the easiest act to follow.

 

[jexykrodic]

Trent has been at the club since six years old I believe, he may just fancy a change.

If this is his mindset then it will not matter what Liverpool offer him, in his own head he's already gone.

A change of club and country is a big deal so it will be complicated for him moving away from familiar surroundings.