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Thoughts on the Match...

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Ryan

The Prophet
Member
If "shite" and "fucking rubbish" are your thoughts - There are plenty of other easy threads for you to spout vitriolic nonsense. Use them.

- Pace. Torres, Gerrard, Johnson and later Babel. That's more pace than the side United put out at the weekend. More than Chelsea's and more than Arsenal's. For the one billionth time - it's not about fast players, it's the tempo you play at, the players you've got, and the speed you move the ball. How fucking slow and one-paced were we tonight? Plod plod plod. No movement in front of the player with the ball, no inventiveness, no imaginination, no ability to retain possession for prolionged periods of time and put the other team under pressure. Which brings to to my next point...

- Ball retention. I lost count at one stage but can anyone confirm Steven Gerrard did actually break the first-half record for giving the ball away more times than anyone in history? Fuck me. People slate Arsenal for trying to walk it into the net. I'd prefer that frustration than watching us cough it up every fucking single bastarding move. Gifting possession back to the opposition makes it so fucking easy for them - all they have to do is keep their shape and wait. We'll hand it over eventually. When you play in thirds (which we like most sides do) you can still motherfucking move out of position when we've got the ball. Look for space, get away from your opponent, drift inside from wide. Offer the midfielder in possession *something*. You could see the exasperation on Gerrard & Lucas' faces at times in that first half when there was zero movement on front of them. Bizarrely the only player who offered something in that respect was Maxi. He engineered space, and found a lot of the ball. He was either crowded out of it, or didn't have enough close options to do anything with it. Kuyt's fucking useless in the hole. He doesn't find space well enough in that position, and is too slow in possession to damage teams. Look at how Gerrard, Tevez and Rooney play that position; quick incisive touches. Dirk's too worried about getting his first touch right.

- Torres. Wonderful tackle (from a Wigan perspective) by Cladwell after 50 seconds. Defenders take note - if you want to intimidate the Spaniard out of most games just bury him early. He'll spend most of the next 89 minutes falling on his arse and complaining to the referee. Even then he could have got us a result with that overhead effort. We wouldn't have deserved it.

- Playing out of position. Here's how you do it - Mascherano. Here's how you don't - Benayoun. "He's shit on the left everyone knows it". Fair enough, it's not his position - doesn't mean he has to play like a fucking retard does it? He's the Tompkins of football - why take one touch when 10 will do. I've commented on it before, but look at the way Aquilani receives and gives quickly. That's how you increase the fucking tempo - one touch and pass, quickly. MOVE IT ON YOSSI. Instead he lumbered about, piroutted his way towards the touchline, and got bullied out of it. The only thing I'll give Benayoun is that he had zero support. Insua was so scared of getting burned by N'Zogbia he never crossed the halfway line once in the first half to support the Israeli. Not good enough from either of them. Benayoun like Babel is a better sub.

- Rafa. Don't cross him. Since Degen's 'effort' at the Emirates he hasn't been in one matchday squad since. Since Riera's 'effort' at home to Blackburn he hasn't played one minute of football since. I've no problem with that - if you're gonna offer up shit performances when you get the opportunity, then sit on your fucking arse for a while. Last time I checked both Switzerland and Spain were going to the World Cup. That pair would do well to get there. Here's a worrying indicator of things though; our subs bench tonight - Cavalieri, Aquilani, Riera, Babel, N'Gog, Johnson (am I missing anyone?) - The guts of 60-70M right there. It's a fair complaint all season long when you don't have that talent and dollar value at your disposal Rafa, but when you do get them back you've got to do something with them. Fail to beat Pompey next Monday night Rafa and you're fucked.

- A word on Wigan. How good was Caldwell? Totally commanding in the air, and mugged Torres on the ground on several occassions. Really impressive performance. McCarthy too. why did all the big clubs renege on this lad? Baffling one. The boy can really play. He reminded me of a young Gerrard; Head up, complete confidence in his touch and decision-making, and strutting about like he's been playing for 10 years. He won't be at Wigan for long if he keeps playing like that.
 
We were shambolic tonight. Our main problem was how cheaply we gave away possession. We couldn't pass to red shirt if Wigan weren't even on the pitch. The formation, given the team put out, was wrong. Yet again a massive lack of pride and commitment. No creativity yet again. Not even invidual performances cut overcome the complete lack of a team performances. Wigan deserved their win but we made them look good. Sorry Ryan, but fucking shite is the best way to describe our team currently. It's short, punchy and get's the point across effectively without having to write War and Peace.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066098#msg1066098 date=1268090432]
Because we're full of unimaginative, talentless plodders.
[/quote]

Hard to argue with that on tonight's performance. Every single player in the side tonight is an International (a few of them 'superstar' ones too) - what makes them play as bad tonight as they did? I'm keen to hear your thoughts mate.

(And it's not all the Manager's fault - despite what some think)
 
It's the managers job to motivate the players Ryan. I've said the players have to hold their hands up too. Between the two of them - players and manager - they've completely and utterly failed to deliver all season. The buck stops with the manager and it's time for him to go.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066104#msg1066104 date=1268090583]

Hard to argue with that on tonight's performance. Every single player in the side tonight is an International (a few of them 'superstar' ones too) - what makes them play as bad tonight as they did? I'm keen to hear your thoughts mate.

(And it's not all the Manager's fault - despite what some think)
[/quote]

Geoff Thomas was an international.

I agree it's not all the manager's fault. It's not the manager's fault an international footballer can't pass to a team mate 5 yards away or beat the first defender at a corner. Unfortunately, this manager bought the players and therefore the book stops with him.

What made the players play badly tonight? They're not arsed.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39217.msg1066108#msg1066108 date=1268090683]
It's the managers job to motivate the players Ryan. I've said the players have to hold their hands up too. Between the two of them - players and manager - they've completely and utterly failed to deliver all season. The buck stops with the manager and it's time for him to go.
[/quote]

The players have a duty to play for the club, regardless of the manager it's upto them, not Rafa, it's not like he's telling the players different things from last season, when we went so close

the team he put out tonight was more than capable of beating Wigan, if the players weren't up for it, they only themselves to blame
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39217.msg1066108#msg1066108 date=1268090683]
It's the managers job to motivate the players Ryan. I've said the players have to hold their hands up too. Between the two of them - players and manager - they've completely and utterly failed to deliver all season. The buck stops with the manager and it's time for him to go.
[/quote]

Sunny & Sheik,
He won't go though. Not now obviously, and is highly unlikely to in the summer either. So what's the fucking point in sitting here typing "fucking shite" after every loss, and criticising other for trying to offer up a more detailed opinion?
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066110#msg1066110 date=1268090811]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066104#msg1066104 date=1268090583]

Hard to argue with that on tonight's performance. Every single player in the side tonight is an International (a few of them 'superstar' ones too) - what makes them play as bad tonight as they did? I'm keen to hear your thoughts mate.

(And it's not all the Manager's fault - despite what some think)
[/quote]

Geoff Thomas was an international.

I agree it's not all the manager's fault. It's not the manager's fault an international footballer can't pass to a team mate 5 yards away or beat the first defender at a corner. Unfortunately, this manager bought the players and therefore the book stops with him.

What made the players play badly tonight? They're not arsed.
[/quote]

Spot on with your last line there, the scary question is why aren't they bothered ?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066116#msg1066116 date=1268091056]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39217.msg1066108#msg1066108 date=1268090683]
It's the managers job to motivate the players Ryan. I've said the players have to hold their hands up too. Between the two of them - players and manager - they've completely and utterly failed to deliver all season. The buck stops with the manager and it's time for him to go.
[/quote]

Sunny & Sheik,
He won't go though. Not now obviously, and is highly unlikely to in the summer either. So what's the fucking point in sitting here typing "fucking shite" after every loss, and criticising other for trying to offer up a more detailed opinion?
[/quote]

I haven't criticised anyone.

And what's the point of typing "fucking shite' after every loss? Because it lets us get it off our chest. Is that ok?
 
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066118#msg1066118 date=1268091116]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066110#msg1066110 date=1268090811]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066104#msg1066104 date=1268090583]

Hard to argue with that on tonight's performance. Every single player in the side tonight is an International (a few of them 'superstar' ones too) - what makes them play as bad tonight as they did? I'm keen to hear your thoughts mate.

(And it's not all the Manager's fault - despite what some think)
[/quote]

Geoff Thomas was an international.

I agree it's not all the manager's fault. It's not the manager's fault an international footballer can't pass to a team mate 5 yards away or beat the first defender at a corner. Unfortunately, this manager bought the players and therefore the book stops with him.

What made the players play badly tonight? They're not arsed.
[/quote]

Spot on with your last line there, the scary question is why aren't they bothered ?
[/quote]

I honestly think it's down to a failure of the manager to motivate them. Does Rafa come across as a fire in the belly type of person to you Kriss?
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066122#msg1066122 date=1268091292]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066118#msg1066118 date=1268091116]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066110#msg1066110 date=1268090811]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066104#msg1066104 date=1268090583]

Hard to argue with that on tonight's performance. Every single player in the side tonight is an International (a few of them 'superstar' ones too) - what makes them play as bad tonight as they did? I'm keen to hear your thoughts mate.

(And it's not all the Manager's fault - despite what some think)
[/quote]

Geoff Thomas was an international.

I agree it's not all the manager's fault. It's not the manager's fault an international footballer can't pass to a team mate 5 yards away or beat the first defender at a corner. Unfortunately, this manager bought the players and therefore the book stops with him.

What made the players play badly tonight? They're not arsed.
[/quote]

Spot on with your last line there, the scary question is why aren't they bothered ?
[/quote]

I honestly think it's down to a failure of the manager to motivate them. Does Rafa come across as a fire in the belly type of person to you Kriss?
[/quote]

Does Arsene Wenger or Carlo Ancelotti?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066124#msg1066124 date=1268091410]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066122#msg1066122 date=1268091292]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066118#msg1066118 date=1268091116]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066110#msg1066110 date=1268090811]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066104#msg1066104 date=1268090583]

Hard to argue with that on tonight's performance. Every single player in the side tonight is an International (a few of them 'superstar' ones too) - what makes them play as bad tonight as they did? I'm keen to hear your thoughts mate.

(And it's not all the Manager's fault - despite what some think)
[/quote]

Geoff Thomas was an international.

I agree it's not all the manager's fault. It's not the manager's fault an international footballer can't pass to a team mate 5 yards away or beat the first defender at a corner. Unfortunately, this manager bought the players and therefore the book stops with him.

What made the players play badly tonight? They're not arsed.
[/quote]

Spot on with your last line there, the scary question is why aren't they bothered ?
[/quote]

I honestly think it's down to a failure of the manager to motivate them. Does Rafa come across as a fire in the belly type of person to you Kriss?
[/quote]

Does Arsene Wenger or Carlo Ancelotti?
[/quote]

Don't know about Ancelloti but Wenger gets fairly animated on the touchline. I'd say he gives it socks in the dressing room from time to time
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066122#msg1066122 date=1268091292]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066118#msg1066118 date=1268091116]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066110#msg1066110 date=1268090811]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066104#msg1066104 date=1268090583]

Hard to argue with that on tonight's performance. Every single player in the side tonight is an International (a few of them 'superstar' ones too) - what makes them play as bad tonight as they did? I'm keen to hear your thoughts mate.

(And it's not all the Manager's fault - despite what some think)
[/quote]

Geoff Thomas was an international.

I agree it's not all the manager's fault. It's not the manager's fault an international footballer can't pass to a team mate 5 yards away or beat the first defender at a corner. Unfortunately, this manager bought the players and therefore the book stops with him.

What made the players play badly tonight? They're not arsed.
[/quote]

Spot on with your last line there, the scary question is why aren't they bothered ?
[/quote]

I honestly think it's down to a failure of the manager to motivate them. Does Rafa come across as a fire in the belly type of person to you Kriss?
[/quote]

No he doesn't, but neither does Wenger and he seems to have done alright, i think the problem of motivation comes down to the players themselves, the players shouldn't need someone motivating them to try like it's a final, every game we play in, playing for the shirt should motivate them by itself
 
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066130#msg1066130 date=1268091614]
No he doesn't, but neither does Wenger and he seems to have done alright
[/quote]

Why, what's he won of late?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066096#msg1066096 date=1268090364]
Why were we rubbish Sheik?
[/quote]

Our 11 are miles better than their 11 tonight so defeat falls squarely at Rafa's door.

It's his job to motivate his players and he f&cking stinks at it.

We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa.

The buck stops with him in this must win game.

Bye bye fourth, bye bye CL, bye bye title for another 20 odd years.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066131#msg1066131 date=1268091656]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066130#msg1066130 date=1268091614]
No he doesn't, but neither does Wenger and he seems to have done alright
[/quote]

Why, what's he won of late?
[/quote]

Nothing more Rafa since he become manager at us, but he certainly through his time at Arsenal has proved to be a very good manager
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066128#msg1066128 date=1268091554]
Fair point. What do you think it is Ryan?


[/quote]

It's a whole host of things Sheik. This 'the manager isn't animated enough' chat is laughable though. Fans look for the easy option most of the time. Look at Dreamy's post just there (and I'm not signling you out specifically Dreamy - your post is sympotamitc of a lot): "We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa."

That doesn't make sense. The Manager is not the fucking be all and end all for on-pitch ineptitude. 11 Internationals on a pitch mate. the majority fo them passing the ball to no one.

To put that down to "lack of motivation from the Manager" is lazy and for the most part - incorrect.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066137#msg1066137 date=1268091940]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066128#msg1066128 date=1268091554]
Fair point. What do you think it is Ryan?


[/quote]

It's a whole host of things Sheik. This 'the manager isn't animated enough' chat is laughable though. Fans look for the easy option most of the time. Look at Dreamy's post just there (and I'm not signling you out specifically Dreamy - your post is sympotamitc of a lot): "We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa."

That doesn't make sense. The Manager is not the fucking be all and end all for on-pitch ineptitude. 11 Internationals on a pitch mate. the majority fo them passing the ball to no one.

To put that down to "lack of motivation from the Manager" is lazy and for the most part - incorrect.

[/quote]

But that manager's players have lost 9 games this season, 7 of them against teams we should be beating. He bought them.
 
The man whose sole job is to motivate and train these players to win football games is failing to do that.
I dont know what else to say. All the talking and analysing in the world isnt going to change that.
I so wanted this to be the year, i thought for a long time it would be, and i defended him while players were injured and i stuck up for him when we were having bad luck (beachballs) but ultimately we couldnt beat Reading in two games. We got dumped out of another cup by Arsenal reserves. We bombed out of Europe against three second rate teams, non of whom have a chance of winning anything this year.
We have dropped points to Wolves, Stoke, Blackburn, Wigan, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Fulham and Sunderland........please go back and read that list of teams again there in fact.
We are shite and going nowhere under the man who is employed (and paid a kings ransom) to MAKE these players motivated, to NOT allow them to perform to that apathetic standard, to turn around the motivation and to perform to a standard that should be expected of a team he himself has assembled over 6 years for 200million pounds. We are going nowhere, and saying the players need to take the blame is ridiculous. Generals lose wars not soldiers. Benitez' soldiers should be lean mean fucking killing machines with raw meat hanging from their snarling jaws, Benitez' soldiers are fucking kittens.
We are lost, completely and utterly lost and rudderless and hoping that the tide will take us over the line to fourth. It wont. Fourth is gone, long gone. The man in charge is responsible thats a fact.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066137#msg1066137 date=1268091940]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066128#msg1066128 date=1268091554]
Fair point. What do you think it is Ryan?


[/quote]

It's a whole host of things Sheik. This 'the manager isn't animated enough' chat is laughable though. Fans look for the easy option most of the time. Look at Dreamy's post just there (and I'm not signling you out specifically Dreamy - your post is sympotamitc of a lot): "We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa."

That doesn't make sense. The Manager is not the fucking be all and end all for on-pitch ineptitude. 11 Internationals on a pitch mate. the majority fo them passing the ball to no one.

To put that down to "lack of motivation from the Manager" is lazy and for the most part - incorrect.

[/quote]

Ryan, As you like to remind us regularly that you play football at a decent level. Do you honestly believe the players are giving their all for the manager this season ?
 
I just think Rafa has a clinical, robotic and emotionless viewpoint of how the game should be played and that passion comes much further down in his make-up. I think he's more German than Spanish. I could be wrong as I don't know him or work with him but that's the general perception I have of him.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066138#msg1066138 date=1268092042]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066137#msg1066137 date=1268091940]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066128#msg1066128 date=1268091554]
Fair point. What do you think it is Ryan?


[/quote]

It's a whole host of things Sheik. This 'the manager isn't animated enough' chat is laughable though. Fans look for the easy option most of the time. Look at Dreamy's post just there (and I'm not signling you out specifically Dreamy - your post is sympotamitc of a lot): "We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa."

That doesn't make sense. The Manager is not the fucking be all and end all for on-pitch ineptitude. 11 Internationals on a pitch mate. the majority fo them passing the ball to no one.

To put that down to "lack of motivation from the Manager" is lazy and for the most part - incorrect.

[/quote]

But that manager's players have lost 9 games this season, 7 of them against teams we should be beating. He bought them.
[/quote]

For most of the year we've been shy of our best players through injury Sheik. Hence why I'm prepared to give him another year, as he's proved with this bunch of players before that we can beat anyone, and perform very very well in the League.
 
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=39217.msg1066141#msg1066141 date=1268092139]


Ryan, As you like to remind us regularly that you play football at a decent level.
[/quote]

So did Garth Crooks. Would you ask that cunt for his opinion on football?
 
[quote author=Niall K link=topic=39217.msg1066141#msg1066141 date=1268092139]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066137#msg1066137 date=1268091940]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066128#msg1066128 date=1268091554]
Fair point. What do you think it is Ryan?


[/quote]

It's a whole host of things Sheik. This 'the manager isn't animated enough' chat is laughable though. Fans look for the easy option most of the time. Look at Dreamy's post just there (and I'm not signling you out specifically Dreamy - your post is sympotamitc of a lot): "We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa."

That doesn't make sense. The Manager is not the fucking be all and end all for on-pitch ineptitude. 11 Internationals on a pitch mate. the majority fo them passing the ball to no one.

To put that down to "lack of motivation from the Manager" is lazy and for the most part - incorrect.

[/quote]

Ryan, As you like to remind us regularly that you play football at a decent level. Do you honestly believe the players are giving their all for the manager this season ?
[/quote]

What the fuck has me playing football got to do with anything we're talking about here Niall?
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066142#msg1066142 date=1268092185]
I just think Rafa has a clinical, robotic and emotionless viewpoint of how the game should be played and that passion comes much further down in his make-up. I think he's more German than Spanish. I could be wrong as I don't know him or work with him but that's the general perception I have of him.
[/quote]

And he was like that 5 years ago Sheik. And other managers are like that.

I don't see what that's got to do with anything really.
 
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