Thoughts on the Match...
- Thread starter Ryan
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[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39217.msg1066198#msg1066198 date=1268094665]
Ok. Fair enough. If you're prepared to analyse shite I sincerely wish you luck. I'm going to bed now to sulk. Laters
[/quote]
It usually takes me an hour or so after a game to get to work and in front of my computer, by which stage I've calmed down. That might explain the lack of "fucking shit cunt ra ra ra" chat.
Ok. Fair enough. If you're prepared to analyse shite I sincerely wish you luck. I'm going to bed now to sulk. Laters
[/quote]
It usually takes me an hour or so after a game to get to work and in front of my computer, by which stage I've calmed down. That might explain the lack of "fucking shit cunt ra ra ra" chat.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066137#msg1066137 date=1268091940]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066128#msg1066128 date=1268091554]
Fair point. What do you think it is Ryan?
[/quote]
It's a whole host of things Sheik. This 'the manager isn't animated enough' chat is laughable though. Fans look for the easy option most of the time. Look at Dreamy's post just there (and I'm not signling you out specifically Dreamy - your post is sympotamitc of a lot): "We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa."
That doesn't make sense. The Manager is not the fucking be all and end all for on-pitch ineptitude. 11 Internationals on a pitch mate. the majority fo them passing the ball to no one.
To put that down to "lack of motivation from the Manager" is lazy and for the most part - incorrect.
[/quote]
Ha ha you are laughable.
If one or two players are poor you can pinpoint the player when everyone is rubbish its a picture issue namely the manager.
Of course there are reaons why but if you consider above all else when we play the big boys we always look 100% committed then it shows that Rafa simply cannot get his team up for the softer games.
Its his primary job to motivate and install confidence in his players.
Fergie, Jose and Arsene are brilliant at it.
Rafa is rubbish and will never ever win us the leauge so to avoid all the bullshit discuss he should be sacked simply for the piece in bold.
That was why he was brought in.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066128#msg1066128 date=1268091554]
Fair point. What do you think it is Ryan?
[/quote]
It's a whole host of things Sheik. This 'the manager isn't animated enough' chat is laughable though. Fans look for the easy option most of the time. Look at Dreamy's post just there (and I'm not signling you out specifically Dreamy - your post is sympotamitc of a lot): "We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa."
That doesn't make sense. The Manager is not the fucking be all and end all for on-pitch ineptitude. 11 Internationals on a pitch mate. the majority fo them passing the ball to no one.
To put that down to "lack of motivation from the Manager" is lazy and for the most part - incorrect.
[/quote]
Ha ha you are laughable.
If one or two players are poor you can pinpoint the player when everyone is rubbish its a picture issue namely the manager.
Of course there are reaons why but if you consider above all else when we play the big boys we always look 100% committed then it shows that Rafa simply cannot get his team up for the softer games.
Its his primary job to motivate and install confidence in his players.
Fergie, Jose and Arsene are brilliant at it.
Rafa is rubbish and will never ever win us the leauge so to avoid all the bullshit discuss he should be sacked simply for the piece in bold.
That was why he was brought in.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066207#msg1066207 date=1268094990]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39217.msg1066198#msg1066198 date=1268094665]
Ok. Fair enough. If you're prepared to analyse shite I sincerely wish you luck. I'm going to bed now to sulk. Laters
[/quote]
It usually takes me an hour or so after a game to get to work and in front of my computer, by which stage I've calmed down. That might explain the lack of "fucking shit cunt ra ra ra" chat.
[/quote]
A few things...
1) I admire the fact that your coping mechanism is analysis, and Brendan aside, I think it's enjoyed. Let's not pretend that there isn't just a bit of optimism there this season though. The whole time you've been avoiding staring into the abyss because you have had a sense of almost aloof confidence that it was going to sort itself out. I wanted to believe it but knew it wasn't actually founded in anything. Are you at least coming to terms with the fact that your "we'll finish fourth" isn't some reasoned position, but instead just a hope, that isn't really born out of any particular logic? That's fine of course, support away, but that's what it is. Do you still feel that way?
2) There is often an Armchair vs match goer vs OOT etc thing that will come up sometimes, and many try to say we all get it, we all hurt as badly. Well, being from the other side of it, though I feel the pain a lolt, and it's just shat on my birthday, and has this season been a pure chore, I tend to agree with Sunny. There's a big tent feeling to the club, and that's great, there's a ton of ground, a lot of unity, a lot of shared experience. That said, why wouldn't he hurt more, why wouldn't his relationship to the club be different? This doesn't make my feelings less valid, and it certainly doesn't impact my ability to talk about the club on a messageboard, but I'm sure it hurts more intensely for others. My dad has a different relationship to the club than I do, because he has a relationship to the city. It doesn't mean we didn't just spend 45 minutes ranting at each other in disgust.
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39217.msg1066198#msg1066198 date=1268094665]
Ok. Fair enough. If you're prepared to analyse shite I sincerely wish you luck. I'm going to bed now to sulk. Laters
[/quote]
It usually takes me an hour or so after a game to get to work and in front of my computer, by which stage I've calmed down. That might explain the lack of "fucking shit cunt ra ra ra" chat.
[/quote]
A few things...
1) I admire the fact that your coping mechanism is analysis, and Brendan aside, I think it's enjoyed. Let's not pretend that there isn't just a bit of optimism there this season though. The whole time you've been avoiding staring into the abyss because you have had a sense of almost aloof confidence that it was going to sort itself out. I wanted to believe it but knew it wasn't actually founded in anything. Are you at least coming to terms with the fact that your "we'll finish fourth" isn't some reasoned position, but instead just a hope, that isn't really born out of any particular logic? That's fine of course, support away, but that's what it is. Do you still feel that way?
2) There is often an Armchair vs match goer vs OOT etc thing that will come up sometimes, and many try to say we all get it, we all hurt as badly. Well, being from the other side of it, though I feel the pain a lolt, and it's just shat on my birthday, and has this season been a pure chore, I tend to agree with Sunny. There's a big tent feeling to the club, and that's great, there's a ton of ground, a lot of unity, a lot of shared experience. That said, why wouldn't he hurt more, why wouldn't his relationship to the club be different? This doesn't make my feelings less valid, and it certainly doesn't impact my ability to talk about the club on a messageboard, but I'm sure it hurts more intensely for others. My dad has a different relationship to the club than I do, because he has a relationship to the city. It doesn't mean we didn't just spend 45 minutes ranting at each other in disgust.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39217.msg1066228#msg1066228 date=1268096439]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066207#msg1066207 date=1268094990]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39217.msg1066198#msg1066198 date=1268094665]
Ok. Fair enough. If you're prepared to analyse shite I sincerely wish you luck. I'm going to bed now to sulk. Laters
[/quote]
It usually takes me an hour or so after a game to get to work and in front of my computer, by which stage I've calmed down. That might explain the lack of "fucking shit cunt ra ra ra" chat.
[/quote]
A few things...
1) I admire the fact that your coping mechanism is analysis, and Brendan aside, I think it's enjoyed. Let's not pretend that there isn't just a bit of optimism there this season though. The whole time you've been avoiding staring into the abyss because you have had a sense of almost aloof confidence that it was going to sort itself out. I wanted to believe it but knew it wasn't actually founded in anything. Are you at least coming to terms with the fact that your "we'll finish fourth" isn't some reasoned position, but instead just a hope, that isn't really born out of any particular logic? That's fine of course, support away, but that's what it is. Do you still feel that way?
[/quote]
Well I based that prediction on us finishing every season strongly that we've had under Rafa. That and our better players coming back. That's about as much 'liogic' as you can use when making a prediction of future success; past records.
As I mentioned before (elsewhere maybe) - the last week and a bit have changed my mind. City winning at Stamford bridge, when let's be honest - none of us expected them too, and us losing tonight have fucked us. Up until that I did believe we'd get 4th.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066207#msg1066207 date=1268094990]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=39217.msg1066198#msg1066198 date=1268094665]
Ok. Fair enough. If you're prepared to analyse shite I sincerely wish you luck. I'm going to bed now to sulk. Laters
[/quote]
It usually takes me an hour or so after a game to get to work and in front of my computer, by which stage I've calmed down. That might explain the lack of "fucking shit cunt ra ra ra" chat.
[/quote]
A few things...
1) I admire the fact that your coping mechanism is analysis, and Brendan aside, I think it's enjoyed. Let's not pretend that there isn't just a bit of optimism there this season though. The whole time you've been avoiding staring into the abyss because you have had a sense of almost aloof confidence that it was going to sort itself out. I wanted to believe it but knew it wasn't actually founded in anything. Are you at least coming to terms with the fact that your "we'll finish fourth" isn't some reasoned position, but instead just a hope, that isn't really born out of any particular logic? That's fine of course, support away, but that's what it is. Do you still feel that way?
[/quote]
Well I based that prediction on us finishing every season strongly that we've had under Rafa. That and our better players coming back. That's about as much 'liogic' as you can use when making a prediction of future success; past records.
As I mentioned before (elsewhere maybe) - the last week and a bit have changed my mind. City winning at Stamford bridge, when let's be honest - none of us expected them too, and us losing tonight have fucked us. Up until that I did believe we'd get 4th.
I can sympathize with what Sunny says to be honest about suffering at the game. And this is coming from the ultimate armchair supporter.
The time, effort and money it takes to go to the match... it's hard to top that. There have been quite a few times this season when I've gone and knew I'd regret it afterwards - driving home miserable after having wasted the day. I'd have struggled to keep it up this season big time.
The time, effort and money it takes to go to the match... it's hard to top that. There have been quite a few times this season when I've gone and knew I'd regret it afterwards - driving home miserable after having wasted the day. I'd have struggled to keep it up this season big time.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066235#msg1066235 date=1268096730]
As I mentioned before (elsewhere maybe) - the last week and a bit have changed my mind. City winning at Stamford bridge, when let's be honest - none of us expected them too, and us losing tonight have fucked us. Up until that I did believe we'd get 4th.
[/quote]
Our losing tonight wasn't exactly unexpected. The recovery of form we've seen recently hasn't involved us even getting into third gear as compared to last season. From the beginning of the pre season, until now, we have not played anything like good football, that's with or without our best players, that's in a variety of formations. You've been of the opinion we'd kick on somehow, when there has been no evidence to really suggest that was going to happen.
Turning to the game, I cannot fathom why we insist on playing Benayoun at LM, EVER. Especially with a left mid on the bench. Insua gets exposed, he's horrible when exposed, the CMs go over to help him, and we end up with a string of red shirts across the pitch. When we get possession of the ball, there are precious few outlet balls, because our CMs are so deep, and Torres is left doing work that is a total waste of his talents, deep in our half against three defenders. And so what if we break, there's no fleetness of thought, no pace, and no developed understanding between our hodgepodge of players who all prefer to occupy the same space (Gerrard, Benayoun, Rodriguez, and to a lesser extent Kuyt). Rafa has encouraged them, probably at length, with all sorts of tactical nuances, to occupy certain spaces, in certain situations. When Kuyt made that incisive pass for their goal, what the fuck was he doing near the left back position anyway? Yes there was a good amount of lazy lack of movement, and yes there's no Alonso for the outlet balls, but how often do we play an early pass into a space where there's just an understanding that someone will be there, and they are actually there? No one knows instinctively where anyone is going to be, because there aren't any players naturally occupying a single position.
We simply don't have the confidence for this, so why not use the same back to basics approach that has sorted our criminal defending out a bit? Riera can operate on the LW, naturally, and generally provides more cover for the fullback. Kuyt can operate on the right far better than in AM, or he can play as a second striker. We need more simplistic, defined roles, at least for now.
As I mentioned before (elsewhere maybe) - the last week and a bit have changed my mind. City winning at Stamford bridge, when let's be honest - none of us expected them too, and us losing tonight have fucked us. Up until that I did believe we'd get 4th.
[/quote]
Our losing tonight wasn't exactly unexpected. The recovery of form we've seen recently hasn't involved us even getting into third gear as compared to last season. From the beginning of the pre season, until now, we have not played anything like good football, that's with or without our best players, that's in a variety of formations. You've been of the opinion we'd kick on somehow, when there has been no evidence to really suggest that was going to happen.
Turning to the game, I cannot fathom why we insist on playing Benayoun at LM, EVER. Especially with a left mid on the bench. Insua gets exposed, he's horrible when exposed, the CMs go over to help him, and we end up with a string of red shirts across the pitch. When we get possession of the ball, there are precious few outlet balls, because our CMs are so deep, and Torres is left doing work that is a total waste of his talents, deep in our half against three defenders. And so what if we break, there's no fleetness of thought, no pace, and no developed understanding between our hodgepodge of players who all prefer to occupy the same space (Gerrard, Benayoun, Rodriguez, and to a lesser extent Kuyt). Rafa has encouraged them, probably at length, with all sorts of tactical nuances, to occupy certain spaces, in certain situations. When Kuyt made that incisive pass for their goal, what the fuck was he doing near the left back position anyway? Yes there was a good amount of lazy lack of movement, and yes there's no Alonso for the outlet balls, but how often do we play an early pass into a space where there's just an understanding that someone will be there, and they are actually there? No one knows instinctively where anyone is going to be, because there aren't any players naturally occupying a single position.
We simply don't have the confidence for this, so why not use the same back to basics approach that has sorted our criminal defending out a bit? Riera can operate on the LW, naturally, and generally provides more cover for the fullback. Kuyt can operate on the right far better than in AM, or he can play as a second striker. We need more simplistic, defined roles, at least for now.
"there were too many things from us that I cannot understand"
Benitez is hurting, and I genuinely like the man, and rate him as a manager, but I don't think he has a clue how to turn things around at present. He has helped create some problems he can't fix.
Benitez is hurting, and I genuinely like the man, and rate him as a manager, but I don't think he has a clue how to turn things around at present. He has helped create some problems he can't fix.
i wonder what rafa has in mind for the summer? i bet it's a massive cull.
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39217.msg1066269#msg1066269 date=1268098970]
i wonder what rafa has in mind for the summer? i bet it's a massive cull.
[/quote]
There are clearly a number of players he's had enough of, however I don't think he has the money and / or the transfer nous to fix all of the problems we're facing.
The Keane / Dossena summer ruined everything for him.
i wonder what rafa has in mind for the summer? i bet it's a massive cull.
[/quote]
There are clearly a number of players he's had enough of, however I don't think he has the money and / or the transfer nous to fix all of the problems we're facing.
The Keane / Dossena summer ruined everything for him.
I think I know what the problem is.
Benitez is a vulcan.
He is tactically brilliant, but lacks the ability to engage people's emotions.
His management style seems to involve constant criticism of the players.
I bet that he will list to each player all the mistakes they did after every game, and make sure that everyone can recite their list of mistakes by heart.
Benitez is a vulcan.
He is tactically brilliant, but lacks the ability to engage people's emotions.
His management style seems to involve constant criticism of the players.
I bet that he will list to each player all the mistakes they did after every game, and make sure that everyone can recite their list of mistakes by heart.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39217.msg1066271#msg1066271 date=1268100013]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39217.msg1066269#msg1066269 date=1268098970]
i wonder what rafa has in mind for the summer? i bet it's a massive cull.
[/quote]
There are clearly a number of players he's had enough of, however I don't think he has the money and / or the transfer nous to fix all of the problems we're facing.
The Keane / Dossena summer ruined everything for him.
[/quote]
completely.
that was meant to be the summer of 'quality not quantity'. i was gobsmacked when i heard we were buying keane for that money. everyone seemed so happy about it that i assumed i'd missed something and hoped for the best.
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39217.msg1066269#msg1066269 date=1268098970]
i wonder what rafa has in mind for the summer? i bet it's a massive cull.
[/quote]
There are clearly a number of players he's had enough of, however I don't think he has the money and / or the transfer nous to fix all of the problems we're facing.
The Keane / Dossena summer ruined everything for him.
[/quote]
completely.
that was meant to be the summer of 'quality not quantity'. i was gobsmacked when i heard we were buying keane for that money. everyone seemed so happy about it that i assumed i'd missed something and hoped for the best.
S
Squiggles
Guest
At times I just find it impossible to believe we practice attacking football.
Or even play together as a team in training. Or do any training at all in fact.
The lack of movement under Benitez has always been a concern, but now it's more prevalent than ever. Basic errors from players who should know better are costing us hugely. As are shit players who shouldn't be anywhere near our club.
He promised us CL football next year, now it's unlikely we'll make it. Time to pack your bags, Benitez, and enjoy life in Turin.
Who needs a drink?
Or even play together as a team in training. Or do any training at all in fact.
The lack of movement under Benitez has always been a concern, but now it's more prevalent than ever. Basic errors from players who should know better are costing us hugely. As are shit players who shouldn't be anywhere near our club.
He promised us CL football next year, now it's unlikely we'll make it. Time to pack your bags, Benitez, and enjoy life in Turin.
Who needs a drink?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066143#msg1066143 date=1268092243]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066138#msg1066138 date=1268092042]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066137#msg1066137 date=1268091940]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066128#msg1066128 date=1268091554]
Fair point. What do you think it is Ryan?
[/quote]
It's a whole host of things Sheik. This 'the manager isn't animated enough' chat is laughable though. Fans look for the easy option most of the time. Look at Dreamy's post just there (and I'm not signling you out specifically Dreamy - your post is sympotamitc of a lot): "We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa."
That doesn't make sense. The Manager is not the fucking be all and end all for on-pitch ineptitude. 11 Internationals on a pitch mate. the majority fo them passing the ball to no one.
To put that down to "lack of motivation from the Manager" is lazy and for the most part - incorrect.
[/quote]
But that manager's players have lost 9 games this season, 7 of them against teams we should be beating. He bought them.
[/quote]
For most of the year we've been shy of our best players through injury Sheik. Hence why I'm prepared to give him another year, as he's proved with this bunch of players before that we can beat anyone, and perform very very well in the League.
[/quote]
I will give Rafa another year. We have suffered enough this year. Why not suffer another year? I am a masochist.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066138#msg1066138 date=1268092042]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066137#msg1066137 date=1268091940]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066128#msg1066128 date=1268091554]
Fair point. What do you think it is Ryan?
[/quote]
It's a whole host of things Sheik. This 'the manager isn't animated enough' chat is laughable though. Fans look for the easy option most of the time. Look at Dreamy's post just there (and I'm not signling you out specifically Dreamy - your post is sympotamitc of a lot): "We were awful all over the pitch and that comes down to Rafa."
That doesn't make sense. The Manager is not the fucking be all and end all for on-pitch ineptitude. 11 Internationals on a pitch mate. the majority fo them passing the ball to no one.
To put that down to "lack of motivation from the Manager" is lazy and for the most part - incorrect.
[/quote]
But that manager's players have lost 9 games this season, 7 of them against teams we should be beating. He bought them.
[/quote]
For most of the year we've been shy of our best players through injury Sheik. Hence why I'm prepared to give him another year, as he's proved with this bunch of players before that we can beat anyone, and perform very very well in the League.
[/quote]
I will give Rafa another year. We have suffered enough this year. Why not suffer another year? I am a masochist.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066192#msg1066192 date=1268094530]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066187#msg1066187 date=1268094315]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066179#msg1066179 date=1268094001]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066174#msg1066174 date=1268093852]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066172#msg1066172 date=1268093756]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066167#msg1066167 date=1268093434]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066161#msg1066161 date=1268092953]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066154#msg1066154 date=1268092581]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066148#msg1066148 date=1268092425]
So we all had our biggest hope at winning the league in years at the start of the season, and the players need motivating ? what a load of rubbish, if that didn't motivated them what will ?
[/quote]
OK then. Why are we fucking shit? Explain away.
[/quote]
Quality players, we always have to work with in a budget, contract renewals come out of our transfer budget, would that happen at Chelsea or Man Utd ? has Rafa ever been in the position to go out and get 2 or 3 of his 1st choice players ? no he hasn't, we are getting what we deserve
[/quote]
We got beat by Wigan. Not Man U or Chelsea. So, we'll agree that the defeats to Chelsea and Arsenal are perfectly acceptable as they are there or thereabouts in comparison to us. What about the other 7 defeats? Were they a result of working within a budget? Remember that that budget got him an 18 million quid right back and a 20 million quid central midfielder.
[/quote]
Because we haven't got the quality to consistently compete game after game, only quality players give you that consistency
[/quote]
I give in.
[/quote]
I agree with you both:
He's spent badly in quite a few areas.
We don't have enough top quality players either.
[/quote]
But we do because we finished 2nd last season. So Kriss was telling me before.Errrr...hmm...hang on a sec while I get this right. We finished second, had all the motivation brimming over into this season, spent 38 million on a right back and a central midfielder who was injured (we only lost Alonso and Arbeloa in the summer by the way) and we've turned to dog shit.
*Scratches head*
Fucking Parry. Fucking Yanks. Fucking Pope.
[/quote]
Well Alonso was a huge loss, and one we've not recovered from. Injuries haven't helped, and our form's been disasterous all season.
We need better players in quite a few areas though. We've two world class players when we attack - United, Chelsea and Arsenal have about half a dozen each.
[/quote]
A lot of that has to do with 'spending badly in quite a few areas' tho.
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066187#msg1066187 date=1268094315]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066179#msg1066179 date=1268094001]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066174#msg1066174 date=1268093852]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066172#msg1066172 date=1268093756]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066167#msg1066167 date=1268093434]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066161#msg1066161 date=1268092953]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=39217.msg1066154#msg1066154 date=1268092581]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=39217.msg1066148#msg1066148 date=1268092425]
So we all had our biggest hope at winning the league in years at the start of the season, and the players need motivating ? what a load of rubbish, if that didn't motivated them what will ?
[/quote]
OK then. Why are we fucking shit? Explain away.
[/quote]
Quality players, we always have to work with in a budget, contract renewals come out of our transfer budget, would that happen at Chelsea or Man Utd ? has Rafa ever been in the position to go out and get 2 or 3 of his 1st choice players ? no he hasn't, we are getting what we deserve
[/quote]
We got beat by Wigan. Not Man U or Chelsea. So, we'll agree that the defeats to Chelsea and Arsenal are perfectly acceptable as they are there or thereabouts in comparison to us. What about the other 7 defeats? Were they a result of working within a budget? Remember that that budget got him an 18 million quid right back and a 20 million quid central midfielder.
[/quote]
Because we haven't got the quality to consistently compete game after game, only quality players give you that consistency
[/quote]
I give in.
[/quote]
I agree with you both:
He's spent badly in quite a few areas.
We don't have enough top quality players either.
[/quote]
But we do because we finished 2nd last season. So Kriss was telling me before.Errrr...hmm...hang on a sec while I get this right. We finished second, had all the motivation brimming over into this season, spent 38 million on a right back and a central midfielder who was injured (we only lost Alonso and Arbeloa in the summer by the way) and we've turned to dog shit.
*Scratches head*
Fucking Parry. Fucking Yanks. Fucking Pope.
[/quote]
Well Alonso was a huge loss, and one we've not recovered from. Injuries haven't helped, and our form's been disasterous all season.
We need better players in quite a few areas though. We've two world class players when we attack - United, Chelsea and Arsenal have about half a dozen each.
[/quote]
A lot of that has to do with 'spending badly in quite a few areas' tho.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39217.msg1066250#msg1066250 date=1268097542]
I can sympathize with what Sunny says to be honest about suffering at the game. And this is coming from the ultimate armchair supporter.
The time, effort and money it takes to go to the match... it's hard to top that. There have been quite a few times this season when I've gone and knew I'd regret it afterwards - driving home miserable after having wasted the day. I'd have struggled to keep it up this season big time.
[/quote]
Agreed.
I cant even fathom any possibility of our suffering bein on a par with theirs.
We're watching in misery, they're living it.
I can sympathize with what Sunny says to be honest about suffering at the game. And this is coming from the ultimate armchair supporter.
The time, effort and money it takes to go to the match... it's hard to top that. There have been quite a few times this season when I've gone and knew I'd regret it afterwards - driving home miserable after having wasted the day. I'd have struggled to keep it up this season big time.
[/quote]
Agreed.
I cant even fathom any possibility of our suffering bein on a par with theirs.
We're watching in misery, they're living it.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39217.msg1066267#msg1066267 date=1268098494]
"there were too many things from us that I cannot understand"
Benitez is hurting, and I genuinely like the man, and rate him as a manager, but I don't think he has a clue how to turn things around at present. He has helped create some problems he can't fix.
[/quote]
i agree with you about benitez hurting but he really doesnt have anyone to blame but himself. I use to be a massive fan of his, i rated him as a manager, i agreed with his tactics but this season he has totally de-railed.
His inclusion of Lucas ahead of a 20mil aquilani just makes no sense at all..
His constant unwillingness to drop the off form dirk kuyt also amuses me..
His line-ups make you question whether he is going out to win games or just play them..
The facial expressions on our players makes them seem dis-interested and like they do not want to play under benitez anymore..
i just think, like houllier, his time is up and it is best for all parties that we depart with him.
i would much rather lose 20million by sacking him, than lose much more playing in the europa league(if we are lucky) and fighting out for 5th, 6th or 7th..
i believe a new manager will excite our players and make them step up and start performing the way they are paid to do..
i would love to see Mourinho take over, or even hiddink although he seems unavailable as he has signed for turkey.. i would not mind even if we got hodgeson as he has impressed me with what he has done at fulham last season and this season.
"there were too many things from us that I cannot understand"
Benitez is hurting, and I genuinely like the man, and rate him as a manager, but I don't think he has a clue how to turn things around at present. He has helped create some problems he can't fix.
[/quote]
i agree with you about benitez hurting but he really doesnt have anyone to blame but himself. I use to be a massive fan of his, i rated him as a manager, i agreed with his tactics but this season he has totally de-railed.
His inclusion of Lucas ahead of a 20mil aquilani just makes no sense at all..
His constant unwillingness to drop the off form dirk kuyt also amuses me..
His line-ups make you question whether he is going out to win games or just play them..
The facial expressions on our players makes them seem dis-interested and like they do not want to play under benitez anymore..
i just think, like houllier, his time is up and it is best for all parties that we depart with him.
i would much rather lose 20million by sacking him, than lose much more playing in the europa league(if we are lucky) and fighting out for 5th, 6th or 7th..
i believe a new manager will excite our players and make them step up and start performing the way they are paid to do..
i would love to see Mourinho take over, or even hiddink although he seems unavailable as he has signed for turkey.. i would not mind even if we got hodgeson as he has impressed me with what he has done at fulham last season and this season.
Tbh, I like these Ryan's analysis. Though it's often painted with his optimism (which sadly has almost run out too) or his bias towards certain players, at least it gives us something to discuss etc.
a few points:
1) Yossi is shit at LM. Everyone knows this. I don't get why he has to be played there ... I'd rather start with Aurelio or just 10 men if need be than see Yossi line up there.
2) I really thought the 'end of season' run would bring out the best in Kuyt. Bar a 3-4 game stretch, he's reverted to form. Forget the pass for the goal, that happens even to the best (Ask Stevie G). But he was just really poor - I don't think he should be starting next year. I know you love him, but a club as average as ours cannot sustain a player who has such bad runs of form every year.
3) Aqua and Babel. I feel for them. I bet both are dying to contribute, or at least put in an effort. No matter what they do on the pitch, Rafa will drop them the next game. They should ask to move on next summer. They both can perhaps play and contribute for a big team - as long as Rafa's not the gaffa.
4) I was a big fun of Insua's. I thought he'd make it. Last year gave me a lot of hope. I'm off that bandwagon. He won't make it here unfortunately.
5) Now that the run for 4th is over, and I know many will disagree, I think we NEED to give some kids a chance. Be it a Pacheco for 20-30 minutes every few games, or Kelly, or Eccelston. They have something to play for. Most of our team, as evident by last night, don't really care. So at least let's put a product on the pitch that does.
a few points:
1) Yossi is shit at LM. Everyone knows this. I don't get why he has to be played there ... I'd rather start with Aurelio or just 10 men if need be than see Yossi line up there.
2) I really thought the 'end of season' run would bring out the best in Kuyt. Bar a 3-4 game stretch, he's reverted to form. Forget the pass for the goal, that happens even to the best (Ask Stevie G). But he was just really poor - I don't think he should be starting next year. I know you love him, but a club as average as ours cannot sustain a player who has such bad runs of form every year.
3) Aqua and Babel. I feel for them. I bet both are dying to contribute, or at least put in an effort. No matter what they do on the pitch, Rafa will drop them the next game. They should ask to move on next summer. They both can perhaps play and contribute for a big team - as long as Rafa's not the gaffa.
4) I was a big fun of Insua's. I thought he'd make it. Last year gave me a lot of hope. I'm off that bandwagon. He won't make it here unfortunately.
5) Now that the run for 4th is over, and I know many will disagree, I think we NEED to give some kids a chance. Be it a Pacheco for 20-30 minutes every few games, or Kelly, or Eccelston. They have something to play for. Most of our team, as evident by last night, don't really care. So at least let's put a product on the pitch that does.
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39217.msg1066324#msg1066324 date=1268114361]
Tbh, I like these Ryan's analysis. Though it's often painted with his optimism (which sadly has almost run out too) or his bias towards certain players, at least it gives us something to discuss etc.
a few points:
1) Yossi is shit at LM. Everyone knows this. I don't get why he has to be played there ... I'd rather start with Aurelio or just 10 men if need be than see Yossi line up there.
Fair enough, not his position, but doesn't mean he has to play like an absolute retard mate. He was fucking diabolical. If you're being faced with two opponents, and are on your unpreferred side, don't try and fucking dribble round them. Give it off and quickly.
2) I really thought the 'end of season' run would bring out the best in Kuyt. Bar a 3-4 game stretch, he's reverted to form. Forget the pass for the goal, that happens even to the best (Ask Stevie G). But he was just really poor - I don't think he should be starting next year. I know you love him, but a club as average as ours cannot sustain a player who has such bad runs of form every year.
Anybody who scores over 10 goals from the win every year for 3 or 4 years deserves his place. That's not even counting his contribution to the team when he doesn't have the ball. But, as I said earlier - he was fucking rubbish in the hole tonight.
3) Aqua and Babel. I feel for them. I bet both are dying to contribute, or at least put in an effort. No matter what they do on the pitch, Rafa will drop them the next game. They should ask to move on next summer. They both can perhaps play and contribute for a big team - as long as Rafa's not the gaffa.
Babel's better as a sub. I've gone through this before - no defensive responsibilities, space to run into, tired defenders, etc etc - Ther's no hiding that. Aquilani benefited from a retreating Wigan, but did well. He moves it quickly and instantly, a skill sadly missing from several members of our side.
4) I was a big fun of Insua's. I thought he'd make it. Last year gave me a lot of hope. I'm off that bandwagon. He won't make it here unfortunately.
I don't think he's as bad as some make out. He got horribly exposed tonight, but in reality United have Evra, Chelsea have Cole, and we've got Emiliano. There's no comparison to make.
5) Now that the run for 4th is over, and I know many will disagree, I think we NEED to give some kids a chance. Be it a Pacheco for 20-30 minutes every few games, or Kelly, or Eccelston. They have something to play for. Most of our team, as evident by last night, don't really care. So at least let's put a product on the pitch that does.
Won't happen.
[/quote]
Tbh, I like these Ryan's analysis. Though it's often painted with his optimism (which sadly has almost run out too) or his bias towards certain players, at least it gives us something to discuss etc.
a few points:
1) Yossi is shit at LM. Everyone knows this. I don't get why he has to be played there ... I'd rather start with Aurelio or just 10 men if need be than see Yossi line up there.
Fair enough, not his position, but doesn't mean he has to play like an absolute retard mate. He was fucking diabolical. If you're being faced with two opponents, and are on your unpreferred side, don't try and fucking dribble round them. Give it off and quickly.
2) I really thought the 'end of season' run would bring out the best in Kuyt. Bar a 3-4 game stretch, he's reverted to form. Forget the pass for the goal, that happens even to the best (Ask Stevie G). But he was just really poor - I don't think he should be starting next year. I know you love him, but a club as average as ours cannot sustain a player who has such bad runs of form every year.
Anybody who scores over 10 goals from the win every year for 3 or 4 years deserves his place. That's not even counting his contribution to the team when he doesn't have the ball. But, as I said earlier - he was fucking rubbish in the hole tonight.
3) Aqua and Babel. I feel for them. I bet both are dying to contribute, or at least put in an effort. No matter what they do on the pitch, Rafa will drop them the next game. They should ask to move on next summer. They both can perhaps play and contribute for a big team - as long as Rafa's not the gaffa.
Babel's better as a sub. I've gone through this before - no defensive responsibilities, space to run into, tired defenders, etc etc - Ther's no hiding that. Aquilani benefited from a retreating Wigan, but did well. He moves it quickly and instantly, a skill sadly missing from several members of our side.
4) I was a big fun of Insua's. I thought he'd make it. Last year gave me a lot of hope. I'm off that bandwagon. He won't make it here unfortunately.
I don't think he's as bad as some make out. He got horribly exposed tonight, but in reality United have Evra, Chelsea have Cole, and we've got Emiliano. There's no comparison to make.
5) Now that the run for 4th is over, and I know many will disagree, I think we NEED to give some kids a chance. Be it a Pacheco for 20-30 minutes every few games, or Kelly, or Eccelston. They have something to play for. Most of our team, as evident by last night, don't really care. So at least let's put a product on the pitch that does.
Won't happen.
[/quote]
my obsersations are;
a) the central defenders are more often than not clueless with the ball.
the amount of times they were passing the ball between each other was heartbreaking.
they need some to take the ball off their toes and do something with it. don't expect the defenders to build from the back the midfielders are going to have to collect the ball otherwise the defenders will simply gift the ball to the oppersition.
b) everthing we do is one paced
its so slowwww. an absolute piece of piss to defend against.
players will recieve the ball and either pass it sideways or backwards, no pace (of movement of the ball) no invention. how many times did slick passing get behind wigan?
c) gerrard's days as a central midfielder are behind him
whether he has forgotten to play there or plain can't be bothered what's clear he is a forward now and that's the position he should play because frankly he was bossed by a kid yesterday.
d) yossi STILL hasn't learnt how to move the ball quickly
I'll also add yossi could easily increase his goal tally by just shooting at goal early.
e) kuyt is frankly an erratic player
kuyt has purple patches rather than extended periods of form and when he is off form he does more harm than good. kuyt was on the left side of the pitch playing an inch perfect pass to wigan for their first goal, I mean seriously, what the FUCK?!
then he was just chasing his own tail for the rest of the time. kuyt isn't ever made to pay for his poor form and the threat of him being dropped is non existant so he can happily regain his form in his own sweet time knowing full he will play week in week out regardless of how much he is stinking the place out.
f) torres is spending more and more time in wide areas
if torres was out wide and kuyt was busy doing an impression of a defender and gerrard was playing in midfield...exactly who was the focal point of the attack?
g) insua has next to no idea how competantly attack
he is either (a) crossing from a mile away from the oppsition goal meaning 9/10 he will overhit the cross its not like he's david fucking beckham or he is giving it easy, sideways or backwards. here's an idea insua, maybe once in a while either (a) get closer to the goal before crossing (b) try and take someone on every now and again to get behind the opposition defense.
h) babel
was rewarded with a place on this bench and asked to save the game with SEVEN minutes of the game remaining. this is after building confidence with some (relatively) good performances. how is anyone supposed to bulld confidence with that kind of treatment, seriously? I also thought babel did more in those 7 minutes than yossi and kuyt did with the entire time they were bumbling around in an extremely headless fashion.
we've simply forgetten how to move the ball quickly, retain possesion and get behind teams, its all one paced, plodding and in front of the opposition. its depressing.
a) the central defenders are more often than not clueless with the ball.
the amount of times they were passing the ball between each other was heartbreaking.
they need some to take the ball off their toes and do something with it. don't expect the defenders to build from the back the midfielders are going to have to collect the ball otherwise the defenders will simply gift the ball to the oppersition.
b) everthing we do is one paced
its so slowwww. an absolute piece of piss to defend against.
players will recieve the ball and either pass it sideways or backwards, no pace (of movement of the ball) no invention. how many times did slick passing get behind wigan?
c) gerrard's days as a central midfielder are behind him
whether he has forgotten to play there or plain can't be bothered what's clear he is a forward now and that's the position he should play because frankly he was bossed by a kid yesterday.
d) yossi STILL hasn't learnt how to move the ball quickly
I'll also add yossi could easily increase his goal tally by just shooting at goal early.
e) kuyt is frankly an erratic player
kuyt has purple patches rather than extended periods of form and when he is off form he does more harm than good. kuyt was on the left side of the pitch playing an inch perfect pass to wigan for their first goal, I mean seriously, what the FUCK?!
then he was just chasing his own tail for the rest of the time. kuyt isn't ever made to pay for his poor form and the threat of him being dropped is non existant so he can happily regain his form in his own sweet time knowing full he will play week in week out regardless of how much he is stinking the place out.
f) torres is spending more and more time in wide areas
if torres was out wide and kuyt was busy doing an impression of a defender and gerrard was playing in midfield...exactly who was the focal point of the attack?
g) insua has next to no idea how competantly attack
he is either (a) crossing from a mile away from the oppsition goal meaning 9/10 he will overhit the cross its not like he's david fucking beckham or he is giving it easy, sideways or backwards. here's an idea insua, maybe once in a while either (a) get closer to the goal before crossing (b) try and take someone on every now and again to get behind the opposition defense.
h) babel
was rewarded with a place on this bench and asked to save the game with SEVEN minutes of the game remaining. this is after building confidence with some (relatively) good performances. how is anyone supposed to bulld confidence with that kind of treatment, seriously? I also thought babel did more in those 7 minutes than yossi and kuyt did with the entire time they were bumbling around in an extremely headless fashion.
we've simply forgetten how to move the ball quickly, retain possesion and get behind teams, its all one paced, plodding and in front of the opposition. its depressing.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39217.msg1066327#msg1066327 date=1268114804]
my obsersations are;
a) the central defenders are more often than not clueless with the ball.
the amount of times they were passing the ball between each other was heartbreaking.
they need some to take the ball off their toes and do something with it. don't expect the defenders to build from the back the midfielders are going to have to collect the ball otherwise the defenders will simply gift the ball to the oppersition.
b) everthing we do is one paced
its so slowwww. an absolute piece of piss to defend against.
players will recieve the ball and either pass it sideways or backwards, no pace (of movement of the ball) no invention. how many times did slick passing get behind wigan?
c) gerrard's days as a central midfielder are behind him
whether he has forgotten to play there or plain can't be bothered what's clear he is a forward now and that's the position he should play because frankly he was bossed by a kid yesterday.
d) yossi STILL hasn't learnt how to move the ball quickly
I'll also add yossi could easily increase his goal tally by just shooting at goal early.
e) kuyt is frankly an erratic player
kuyt has purple patches rather than extended periods of form and when he is off form he does more harm than good. kuyt was on the left side of the pitch playing an inch perfect pass to wigan for their first goal, I mean seriously, what the FUCK?!
then he was just chasing his own tail for the rest of the time. kuyt isn't ever made to pay for his poor form and the threat of him being dropped is non existant so he can happily regain his form in his own sweet time knowing full he will play week in week out regardless of how much he is stinking the place out.
f) torres is spending more and more time in wide areas
if torres was out wide and kuyt was busy doing an impression of a defender and gerrard was playing in midfield...exactly who was the focal point of the attack?
g) insua has next to no idea how competantly attack
he is either (a) crossing from a mile away from the oppsition goal meaning 9/10 he will overhit the cross its not like he's david fucking beckham or he is giving it easy, sideways or backwards. here's an idea insua, maybe once in a while either (a) get closer to the goal before crossing (b) try and take someone on every now and again to get behind the opposition defense.
h) babel
was rewarded with a place on this bench and asked to save the game with SEVEN minutes of the game remaining. this is after building confidence with some (relatively) good performances. how is anyone supposed to bulld confidence with that kind of treatment, seriously? I also thought babel did more in those 7 minutes than yossi and kuyt did with the entire time they were bumbling around in an extremely headless fashion.
we've simply forgetten how to move the ball quickly, retain possesion and get behind teams, its all one paced, plodding and in front of the opposition. its depressing.
[/quote]
Worryingly, there's not an awful lot to disagree with there.
my obsersations are;
a) the central defenders are more often than not clueless with the ball.
the amount of times they were passing the ball between each other was heartbreaking.
they need some to take the ball off their toes and do something with it. don't expect the defenders to build from the back the midfielders are going to have to collect the ball otherwise the defenders will simply gift the ball to the oppersition.
b) everthing we do is one paced
its so slowwww. an absolute piece of piss to defend against.
players will recieve the ball and either pass it sideways or backwards, no pace (of movement of the ball) no invention. how many times did slick passing get behind wigan?
c) gerrard's days as a central midfielder are behind him
whether he has forgotten to play there or plain can't be bothered what's clear he is a forward now and that's the position he should play because frankly he was bossed by a kid yesterday.
d) yossi STILL hasn't learnt how to move the ball quickly
I'll also add yossi could easily increase his goal tally by just shooting at goal early.
e) kuyt is frankly an erratic player
kuyt has purple patches rather than extended periods of form and when he is off form he does more harm than good. kuyt was on the left side of the pitch playing an inch perfect pass to wigan for their first goal, I mean seriously, what the FUCK?!
then he was just chasing his own tail for the rest of the time. kuyt isn't ever made to pay for his poor form and the threat of him being dropped is non existant so he can happily regain his form in his own sweet time knowing full he will play week in week out regardless of how much he is stinking the place out.
f) torres is spending more and more time in wide areas
if torres was out wide and kuyt was busy doing an impression of a defender and gerrard was playing in midfield...exactly who was the focal point of the attack?
g) insua has next to no idea how competantly attack
he is either (a) crossing from a mile away from the oppsition goal meaning 9/10 he will overhit the cross its not like he's david fucking beckham or he is giving it easy, sideways or backwards. here's an idea insua, maybe once in a while either (a) get closer to the goal before crossing (b) try and take someone on every now and again to get behind the opposition defense.
h) babel
was rewarded with a place on this bench and asked to save the game with SEVEN minutes of the game remaining. this is after building confidence with some (relatively) good performances. how is anyone supposed to bulld confidence with that kind of treatment, seriously? I also thought babel did more in those 7 minutes than yossi and kuyt did with the entire time they were bumbling around in an extremely headless fashion.
we've simply forgetten how to move the ball quickly, retain possesion and get behind teams, its all one paced, plodding and in front of the opposition. its depressing.
[/quote]
Worryingly, there's not an awful lot to disagree with there.
That was an absolute cunt of a game. If someone could be arsed doing some video editing, I'm pretty sure we could even eradicate the RAWK stronghold.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066328#msg1066328 date=1268115011]
Worryingly, there's not an awful lot to disagree with there.
[/quote]
obsevations are easy, solutions are hard.
Worryingly, there's not an awful lot to disagree with there.
[/quote]
obsevations are easy, solutions are hard.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39217.msg1066326#msg1066326 date=1268114779]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39217.msg1066324#msg1066324 date=1268114361]
Tbh, I like these Ryan's analysis. Though it's often painted with his optimism (which sadly has almost run out too) or his bias towards certain players, at least it gives us something to discuss etc.
a few points:
1) Yossi is shit at LM. Everyone knows this. I don't get why he has to be played there ... I'd rather start with Aurelio or just 10 men if need be than see Yossi line up there.
Fair enough, not his position, but doesn't mean he has to play like an absolute retard mate. He was fucking diabolical. If you're being faced with two opponents, and are on your unpreferred side, don't try and fucking dribble round them. Give it off and quickly.
I think he's never been a disciplined player. He was shit x 10 though, but we all knew that would happen!
2) I really thought the 'end of season' run would bring out the best in Kuyt. Bar a 3-4 game stretch, he's reverted to form. Forget the pass for the goal, that happens even to the best (Ask Stevie G). But he was just really poor - I don't think he should be starting next year. I know you love him, but a club as average as ours cannot sustain a player who has such bad runs of form every year.
Anybody who scores over 10 goals from the win every year for 3 or 4 years deserves his place. That's not even counting his contribution to the team when he doesn't have the ball. But, as I said earlier - he was fucking rubbish in the hole tonight.
We can keep Kuyt if we don't have a proper winger on the other side OR we have a phenomenal year from Torres/Gerrard last like year. To be honest, we have to keep Kuyt but I'm just sad that the days of seeing a winger like Shaggy or Digger seem to be long over.
3) Aqua and Babel. I feel for them. I bet both are dying to contribute, or at least put in an effort. No matter what they do on the pitch, Rafa will drop them the next game. They should ask to move on next summer. They both can perhaps play and contribute for a big team - as long as Rafa's not the gaffa.
Babel's better as a sub. I've gone through this before - no defensive responsibilities, space to run into, tired defenders, etc etc - Ther's no hiding that. Aquilani benefited from a retreating Wigan, but did well. He moves it quickly and instantly, a skill sadly missing from several members of our side.
You gotta give him a proper go though Ryan - He played well against Unirea and was dropped. Why? That's how you 'reward' a player for a good performance? It's a pity - he may have been the spark this team needed considering how utter tosh every other LW option we've had on the wing has been. Aqua needs to start the rest of the season with mascher protecting him now that Johnson is fit. I know you rate Lucas, but we cannot have Lucas/Mascher pairing - it doesn't work.
4) I was a big fun of Insua's. I thought he'd make it. Last year gave me a lot of hope. I'm off that bandwagon. He won't make it here unfortunately.
I don't think he's as bad as some make out. He got horribly exposed tonight, but in reality United have Evra, Chelsea have Cole, and we've got Emiliano. There's no comparison to make.
He's not as bad as many are saying, but he's not as good as many of us thought he could be based on last year. He's regressed a lot. I don't think he's got what it takes to be a 1st team for us ...
5) Now that the run for 4th is over, and I know many will disagree, I think we NEED to give some kids a chance. Be it a Pacheco for 20-30 minutes every few games, or Kelly, or Eccelston. They have something to play for. Most of our team, as evident by last night, don't really care. So at least let's put a product on the pitch that does.
Won't happen.
Which is why I don't get why any young players want to sign for us ... They don't get chances when we're doing well or poorly. Do we need to get relegated to give the yooth a chance?
[/quote]
[/quote]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=39217.msg1066324#msg1066324 date=1268114361]
Tbh, I like these Ryan's analysis. Though it's often painted with his optimism (which sadly has almost run out too) or his bias towards certain players, at least it gives us something to discuss etc.
a few points:
1) Yossi is shit at LM. Everyone knows this. I don't get why he has to be played there ... I'd rather start with Aurelio or just 10 men if need be than see Yossi line up there.
Fair enough, not his position, but doesn't mean he has to play like an absolute retard mate. He was fucking diabolical. If you're being faced with two opponents, and are on your unpreferred side, don't try and fucking dribble round them. Give it off and quickly.
I think he's never been a disciplined player. He was shit x 10 though, but we all knew that would happen!
2) I really thought the 'end of season' run would bring out the best in Kuyt. Bar a 3-4 game stretch, he's reverted to form. Forget the pass for the goal, that happens even to the best (Ask Stevie G). But he was just really poor - I don't think he should be starting next year. I know you love him, but a club as average as ours cannot sustain a player who has such bad runs of form every year.
Anybody who scores over 10 goals from the win every year for 3 or 4 years deserves his place. That's not even counting his contribution to the team when he doesn't have the ball. But, as I said earlier - he was fucking rubbish in the hole tonight.
We can keep Kuyt if we don't have a proper winger on the other side OR we have a phenomenal year from Torres/Gerrard last like year. To be honest, we have to keep Kuyt but I'm just sad that the days of seeing a winger like Shaggy or Digger seem to be long over.
3) Aqua and Babel. I feel for them. I bet both are dying to contribute, or at least put in an effort. No matter what they do on the pitch, Rafa will drop them the next game. They should ask to move on next summer. They both can perhaps play and contribute for a big team - as long as Rafa's not the gaffa.
Babel's better as a sub. I've gone through this before - no defensive responsibilities, space to run into, tired defenders, etc etc - Ther's no hiding that. Aquilani benefited from a retreating Wigan, but did well. He moves it quickly and instantly, a skill sadly missing from several members of our side.
You gotta give him a proper go though Ryan - He played well against Unirea and was dropped. Why? That's how you 'reward' a player for a good performance? It's a pity - he may have been the spark this team needed considering how utter tosh every other LW option we've had on the wing has been. Aqua needs to start the rest of the season with mascher protecting him now that Johnson is fit. I know you rate Lucas, but we cannot have Lucas/Mascher pairing - it doesn't work.
4) I was a big fun of Insua's. I thought he'd make it. Last year gave me a lot of hope. I'm off that bandwagon. He won't make it here unfortunately.
I don't think he's as bad as some make out. He got horribly exposed tonight, but in reality United have Evra, Chelsea have Cole, and we've got Emiliano. There's no comparison to make.
He's not as bad as many are saying, but he's not as good as many of us thought he could be based on last year. He's regressed a lot. I don't think he's got what it takes to be a 1st team for us ...
5) Now that the run for 4th is over, and I know many will disagree, I think we NEED to give some kids a chance. Be it a Pacheco for 20-30 minutes every few games, or Kelly, or Eccelston. They have something to play for. Most of our team, as evident by last night, don't really care. So at least let's put a product on the pitch that does.
Won't happen.
Which is why I don't get why any young players want to sign for us ... They don't get chances when we're doing well or poorly. Do we need to get relegated to give the yooth a chance?
[/quote]
[/quote]
I don't really see the point in laying into Yossi as a player. He's been excellent for us on the right hand side. But for some bizarre reason, he's atrocious on the left and I'm sure it's not on purpose. So to ask him to not play "like a retard" isn't going to help any. What is going to help is the manager not fucking picking him to play on the left.
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39217.msg1066267#msg1066267 date=1268098494]
"there were too many things from us that I cannot understand"
Benitez is hurting, and I genuinely like the man, and rate him as a manager, but I don't think he has a clue how to turn things around at present. He has helped create some problems he can't fix.
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I think that's largely to do with the fact that the problems cannot be solved with a couple of tactical changes. These players need to be picked up off the floor, shaken violently, and then whipped into gear. They need to want to play for the manager, or at the very least be fearful of not playing for him. I just don't think Rafa has it in his locker to arrest the situation.
What astounds me is that after an absolutely horrific showing in the first half, there was very little sign of a reaction from anyone after the break. That's not just true of yesterday either - it's been happening all season. What does Rafa say to them in the team talk? Why don't they come out in the second half with renewed vigour?
Look at MON's Villa against Reading at the weekend. Dreadful in the first half, given a right rollicking at half-time, and rampant in the second. Likewise, if Fegie's boys don't perform in the first half, it's the hairdryer treatment and more often than not a marked improvement (in effort, at least) in the second.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall for one of Rafa's half-time team talks when we're not playing well. Because by the looks of things he could easily be telling them to carry on doing what they're doing.
"there were too many things from us that I cannot understand"
Benitez is hurting, and I genuinely like the man, and rate him as a manager, but I don't think he has a clue how to turn things around at present. He has helped create some problems he can't fix.
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I think that's largely to do with the fact that the problems cannot be solved with a couple of tactical changes. These players need to be picked up off the floor, shaken violently, and then whipped into gear. They need to want to play for the manager, or at the very least be fearful of not playing for him. I just don't think Rafa has it in his locker to arrest the situation.
What astounds me is that after an absolutely horrific showing in the first half, there was very little sign of a reaction from anyone after the break. That's not just true of yesterday either - it's been happening all season. What does Rafa say to them in the team talk? Why don't they come out in the second half with renewed vigour?
Look at MON's Villa against Reading at the weekend. Dreadful in the first half, given a right rollicking at half-time, and rampant in the second. Likewise, if Fegie's boys don't perform in the first half, it's the hairdryer treatment and more often than not a marked improvement (in effort, at least) in the second.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall for one of Rafa's half-time team talks when we're not playing well. Because by the looks of things he could easily be telling them to carry on doing what they're doing.
I tend to think he does the rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic thing, with involved tactical advice, that has Kuyt, Maxi, and Yossi artfully circulating around depending on which way the wind is blowing when Wigan are in possession.
Sorry Ryan, but I cant look at the game tactically simply cos every player bar Torres & Stevie hid tonight.
They didnt make themselves available for passes, they didnt close down, they didnt press. They did nothing.
We got the ball in CM & were making 2/4 yard passes sideways cos nobody moved forwards. I'm not a Babel fan, but he came on & dropped to within 5 yards of our penalty area to try to get the ball cos it wasnt being passed forwards.
There's something seriously wrong somewhere.
Sometimes you need to go behind to an early goal to wake you up, but even that didnt do it. We were one nil down to Wigan & didnt put pressure on them once. I cant remember Kirkland making a single proper save all game.
They didnt make themselves available for passes, they didnt close down, they didnt press. They did nothing.
We got the ball in CM & were making 2/4 yard passes sideways cos nobody moved forwards. I'm not a Babel fan, but he came on & dropped to within 5 yards of our penalty area to try to get the ball cos it wasnt being passed forwards.
There's something seriously wrong somewhere.
Sometimes you need to go behind to an early goal to wake you up, but even that didnt do it. We were one nil down to Wigan & didnt put pressure on them once. I cant remember Kirkland making a single proper save all game.
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