I still rate Ayala, I thought he always looked decent.
Suso vs Europe
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I still rate Ayala, I thought he always looked decent.
He's good, been unlucky with injuries. But Im not sure he was good enough to play for us.
we might see more of him under brendan,
haha true
Who's to say that had they not been left 'stagnate' in the reserves team, they would not have progressed/improve further? It might have precisely been the way we dealt with their development that indirectly resulted of them ending up where they did/are, i.e. not fulfilling their promise.
Ryan Bertrand for example has been out on loan to 5 different clubs over the past 5 seasons, progressively from League 1 (Bournemouth, Oldham) to Championship (Norwich, Reading and Nottingham Forest).
Similar route for the likes of Tom Cleverley (League One - Leicester City to Championship - Watford to Premier League - Wigan) and Danny Welbeck (Championship - Preston to Premier League - Sunderland).
Mikel San Jose didn't fare too badly going on loan to Bilbao at the age of 20.
Ryan Bertrand for example has been out on loan to 5 different clubs over the past 5 seasons, progressively from League 1 (Bournemouth, Oldham) to Championship (Norwich, Reading and Nottingham Forest).
Similar route for the likes of Tom Cleverley (League One - Leicester City to Championship - Watford to Premier League - Wigan) and Danny Welbeck (Championship - Preston to Premier League - Sunderland).
Mikel San Jose didn't fare too badly going on loan to Bilbao at the age of 20.
We'll need to buy a left back then because we've got no one beyond Enrique, other than Johnson, and I'd rather see a left pegger.
The thing is many of them were loaned out. Welsh, Hammill, Anderson, Kelly, Spearing all of them did get loaned out. Some were just not good enough. Kelly is the only one imo. One player from the team that won the Fa youth cup, one player in 10 years who made it to the first team, that's terrible. (I'm not forgetting Spearing, I just don't rate him).
San José is someone we should have kept instead of buying Wilson for instance.
We tried with Insua but he's just wasn't good enough.
Spearing got his place in the team by default.
The only suggestion I somewhat agree with is that we should have played them instead of buying average bargain players who were marginally better.
Agger was decent there last season aswell.
I'm not fond of buying a back up left back, you can pretty much guarantee he'll be shite.
In my view Enrique ought to be punished for his performances at the end of last season. And if that means handing a place to Robinson before he has earned one, then so be it. His own time for punishment will probably come soon enough.
Another thread that has gone off topic somewhat but I'm so excited about our up and coming players.
-------------------Gulasci
McLaughlin Wilson Wisdom Robinson
-------------Shelvey---Texeira
Sterling----------------------------Suso
----------------Adorjan
-----------------------Pacheco
Dunn, Baio, Nacho, Lussey....
It's as good as it gets.
My ratings with regards to their potential:
(1-5 Stars)
Gulasci * * *
McLaughlin * * * * *
Wilson * * *
Wisdom * * *
Robinson * * * *
Shelvey * * *
Texeira n/a
Sterling * * * * *
Suso * * * * *
Adorjan * * *
Pacheco * * *
-------------------Gulasci
McLaughlin Wilson Wisdom Robinson
-------------Shelvey---Texeira
Sterling----------------------------Suso
----------------Adorjan
-----------------------Pacheco
Dunn, Baio, Nacho, Lussey....
It's as good as it gets.
My ratings with regards to their potential:
(1-5 Stars)
Gulasci * * *
McLaughlin * * * * *
Wilson * * *
Wisdom * * *
Robinson * * * *
Shelvey * * *
Texeira n/a
Sterling * * * * *
Suso * * * * *
Adorjan * * *
Pacheco * * *
Haha, I'm no MJ.
I definitely agree not all were up to grade but as I questioned, the treatment of their progress and development could've played a part. I don't think its just simply a case of them being 'not good enough'.
Take John Welsh for example. He made his first team debut in a Worthington Cup tie against Ipswich Town in Dec 2002. Had to wait almost a year before his Premiership debut came in a 2-1 defeat against Arsenal, in Oct 2003 at 19 years old.
His next move came 2 years later, age 21, in Aug 2005 on loan to Hull City. In between this period, all he had was three starts and four substitute appearances in all competitions for the 1st team, on top of reserves football. He impressed at Hull as he stepped up to fill the void left by Ian Ashbee due to his knee injury and they signed him outright.
He suffered a double break to his right leg 3 mins into a match and that kept him out for more than half a yr. The rest was history.
Jay Spearing's competitive first team debut in Dec 2008 as a sub. Again, his 1st start came almost a year later in 2009. His only loan stint was at Leicester in 2010 for barely 2+ months.
Fixed
What about Flanagan, Coady, Kristoffer Peterson, Pelosi, Ojo, Toni Silva. Adam Morgan, Ibe, Ngoo, Jerome Sinclair? Give us your star rating for these or don't you think these are good enough?
I picked the my first XI.
But here goes:
Flanagan * * 1/2 (I don't think he has what it takes to make it at Liverpool. He's the classic right back, I can't complain about his defending, but his attacking, passing etc. it's just not up to today's standard for a RB. McLaughlan has all that and pace.)
Coady * * 1/2
Kristoffer Peterson n/a (not noticed him or seen much of him)
Toni Silva * * (not good enough)
Adam Morgan * * * (Has some potential but I'm not sure about him. He's scores tons of goals but he misses 4 out 5 chances. The Fowler comparison is pretty harsh. I even think Mellor was better)
Ngoo * * (A big lanky striker, but he's just a terrible finisher. A poor Peter Crouch)
I'm not gonna rate the U18s cause I havent really seen that much of them. I dn't usually follow their games, unless it's the Fa youth cup, but we got knocked out pretty early last season.
Jerome Sinclair - sorry nothing
Ibe - Seen some clips looks pretty good. Plays on the right and has pace and technique.
Ojo - sorry nothing
Pelosi - suffered a terrible injury early on, been hearing good things about him before that.
completely agree.
I've mentioned this before, but Wenger/Ferguson's approach to the Carling Cup is exactly the right one. Play your kids, and find out if they can cut it at that level. If they can't - let them go, if they can - then you've got something you can work with.
Going to fucking Exeter City and sticking out your best 11 in round 1 one of the league cup is/was the most pointless thing I've ever seen. Trying to win the League Cup with your best 11 smacks of short-term thinking.
Play the kids, don't give two shiny fucks about that shite trophy, and at least we'll get somewhere in the long run. As it is, we've got 'potential' running round in the ressies that we could have fast-tracked 12 months ago.
That just sounds like another pot-shot at Kenny, Ryan. We weren't in Europe last season, so there was every reason to do it, we hadn't won a cup in years. Maybe Kenny used it as a safeguard, throwing everything at it in the hope that he'd win a cup and that would be the minimum requirement for him to have a successful season, as it was, it didn't save him because of his domestic form, but anyway.
I don't think you can have a go at us for occasionally taking it seriously and continuing the trend of winning stuff.
I don't think you can have a go at us for occasionally taking it seriously and continuing the trend of winning stuff.
Well, yeah, I agree that it would be nice to treat the Carling Cup like that. But when we need it to qualify for Europe, it's hard to ignore it. If/when we get back up into the Champions League places, then we could maybe use it as a youth cup
Only 3 for Adorjan? Have you started to doubt his talent?
Should be 3 and 1/2, tbh. He started off the season better than he finished it imo.
So sure, I kinda started having doubts about him, but I still reckon that he has a chance to make it.
I definitely rate him more than Coady.
I also like to amend Shelvey's rating to 3 1/2 as well.
Top rated talents (in order of potential):
- Suso * * * * *
- Sterling * * * * *
- McLaughlan * * * * *
- Robinson * * * *
- Shelvey * * * ,1/2 *
- Adorjan * * * ,1/2 *
Haven't been totally convinced by Robinson. I watched him play in a pre-season friendly (can't remember who against) and he got murdered by the opposition winger. Flanagan came on at half time for him and the first thing he did was to snap the winger in two. The winger wasn't the same for the rest of the match. He's young and has time, but he needs to learn the "professional" side of the game. Whereas Flanagan needs to learn to not let mistakes effect his game as much.
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