Suso vs Europe

[dakid1235]

According to some on other boards it's either play him or he leaves.

What other boards are these mate?
I havent seen any play me or im off stories. More like he wasnts to be involved with the first team. Remember he doesnt even train with them yet coady who he is clearly a cut above reguraly trains with the first team yet suso spains u19 captain doesnt.

 

[Modo]

What other boards are these mate?
I havent seen any play me or im off stories. More like he wasnts to be involved with the first team. Remember he doesnt even train with them yet coady who he is clearly a cut above reguraly trains with the first team yet suso spains u19 captain doesnt.

People talking on RAWK.
I was wrong about him being captain. It's Jose Campana.

 

[Hansern]

I doubt he's made any such comments. Does have 1 year left on his contract though.

He's a player Rodgers will love and a great talent. Will most definetly be in the squad this season.

 

[irishred]

I thought Henderson was captain of England and performed quite well?

'quite well', is that what we want from a first-team regular at Liverpool in the most important position on the pitch. The centre-midfielders dictate the game and and in comparison with the top teams ours are well below standard. (Man City - David Silva, Yaya Toure; Man Utd - Scholes, Carrick; Chelsea - Lampard, Ramires, Mata; Arsenal - Wilshere, Song, Arteta; Tottenham - Modric, Parker, Van der Vaart; Newcastle - Tiote, Cabaye).

If you're talking about Henderson captaining England in the U21's last summer, in my opinion he was terrible in that tournament and I couldn't believe we bought him but hoped he'd improve for us. I just don't see anything that makes me think he will be a top class midfielder and his goalscoring record for a midfielder is pretty abysmal - 8 goals in 140 games - and he's not really a defensive player aswell. He's probably not even the best Jordan at the club. 😉 But I really wish to be proved wrong though.

 

[Modo]

I remember that U21 tournament, he wasn't that impressive. Played in a holding midfield role and as usual didn't significantly affect the game. He just did what he usually does. Played it simple and didn't take any risks. He was neither good or bad.

 

[Hansern]

He played in the worst England u-21 side ever managed by the awful Pearce.

Played next to Michael Mancienne ffs.

 

[Glen C]

He played in the worst England u-21 side ever managed by the awful Pearce.

Played next to Michael Mancienne ffs.

if you're quality you will still stand out. Henderson was awful and I've never rated him even when he was at sunderland. waste of money. suso has more talent than him and shelvey, he just needs games to develop his game to the next level.

 

[red_maradona]

suso needs to play this season - normally for young players you start my sticking them out on the wing, but I don't think this will suite him - he needs to play in the middle, like a young fabregas, threading delicate balls and maintaining possession.

 

[Modo]

suso needs to play this season - normally for young players you start my sticking them out on the wing, but I don't think this will suite him - he needs to play in the middle, like a young fabregas, threading delicate balls and maintaining possession.

If we're gonna play him in the middle he will need someone to help him out defensively. Fabregas had Gilberto Silva to help him.
So Lucas needs to play.

 

[juniormember]

This is the first youngster at LFC in a loooong time that I'm certain we'll regret letting go, so we HAVE to get him on a long term contract and he HAS to be in the first team squad.
This lad will succeed wherever he goes.
And he's made for Barca/Spain. He'll be a 30m plus player within five years.

 

[juniormember]

eye for a pass, great great skills.
Plus has good acceleration and athleticism. Scored a few goals in the reserves too.
He's just too good for Rodgers not to consider next season. Criminally unused by the King.

 

[dmishra]

Massive hard-on watching that clip.

 

[RedStar]

One of the biggest disappointments over the last couple of years has been the way we have treated young players at this club, there is only so much a guy can learn from playing in the reserves and at a certain point we really need to start blooding them into the first team or their progress just stagnates. For me the best way to bring through a promising young player is to have them on the bench getting used to atmosphere and the routine of first team match day then giving them 15 or 20 minutes towards the end of a home game where we are a couple of goals ahead and in control of the fixture. That allows them to find their feet slowly in games where they will see the ball and not be under too much pressure, get them used to the crowd and the pace of the game.

Unfortunately we tend to use our young players only when we either have so many injuries they are thrown straight into the team with no experience or in a league cup game when we make so many changes to the team that the team is often not cohesive and bears little resemblance to the real first team style/pace.

It would be a shame to lose players of the quality of Suso and Sterling because we couldnt find a way to integrate them into the first team set up better than we have done with most players over the last 10 years

 

[red_maradona]

One of the biggest disappointments over the last couple of years has been the way we have treated young players at this club, there is only so much a guy can learn from playing in the reserves and at a certain point we really need to start blooding them into the first team or their progress just stagnates. For me the best way to bring through a promising young player is to have them on the bench getting used to atmosphere and the routine of first team match day then giving them 15 or 20 minutes towards the end of a home game where we are a couple of goals ahead and in control of the fixture. That allows them to find their feet slowly in games where they will see the ball and not be under too much pressure, get them used to the crowd and the pace of the game.

Unfortunately we tend to use our young players only when we either have so many injuries they are thrown straight into the team with no experience or in a league cup game when we make so many changes to the team that the team is often not cohesive and bears little resemblance to the real first team style/pace.

It would be a shame to lose players of the quality of Suso and Sterling because we couldnt find a way to integrate them into the first team set up better than we have done with most players over the last 10 years

not sure I agree with all of that, i think a lot of it comes down to expectations for playing for lfc and an increase in standards - if i was a youngster with talent i would not opt to play for a top 4 team to start with as you dont have the time to make it. how many of the youngsters of the last 4 yrs who were not given a chance have gone on to make it at a good level?

 

[RedStar]

not sure I agree with all of that, i think a lot of it comes down to expectations for playing for lfc and an increase in standards - if i was a youngster with talent i would not opt to play for a top 4 team to start with as you dont have the time to make it. how many of the youngsters of the last 4 yrs who were not given a chance have gone on to make it at a good level?

Fair point but then like I said without giving them a chance how would we know, once a player gets to a point where he is playing well regularly for the reserves there is nowhere for him to but the first team if he is to develop, if you keep him playing reserve team football he will not progress, he will stagnate.

Look at the amount of players that have come through at Arsenal Villa or Everton in the past 10 years, I dont believe for one minute that their young players are better than ours, that their scouts or coaches are better than ours, their systems better than ours. They blood young players and give them a chance, sometimes because they have to sometimes because they get an opportunity we dont, but the result is pretty obvious

 

[Jack D Rips]

One of the problems in the last few year is how often have we been a couple of goals up with 15-20 minutes to go.

 

[RedStar]

One of the problems in the last few year is how often have we been a couple of goals up with 15-20 minutes to go.

True, but even in the couple of years before that when we were doing well how many times did we use it to blood young players, there may never be an ideal time or an ideal game but if we dont do it we either lose them or ruin their progress

 

[mark1975]

There's got to come a point where we look at ourselves and say our overcaution is doing us no favours when it comes to youngsters. As said, the last 20 minutes when you're 2-0 up or whatever is the ideal time to give them a run out in a confident side that's in control. Sometimes there's a need to just see if they sink or swim, or you're never going to know. People might say, well it's obvious we haven't got anyone of the caliber of a Gerrard or an Owen, fair enough, but you still need to know whether their good performances at reserve level can be translated to the first team, if they swim then they will only improve further playing with better players, they will learn and develop.

 

[keniget]

We start with the same old players... bring on the same old players when we are struggling.

What's the worst that could happen if a youngster came on. You can't wait till youre 2 nil up to give kids a go in the last 7 minutes. The game is usually over by that point and they dont get a chance to do anything.

 

[FoxForceFive]

I've said it before but it's just as true now, when you've a successful winning side its much easier to bring in young players for a season, as you can carry them to a point.

We've not been in that position for a long time unfortunately. I've lost count of the amount of players utd gave kept faith with for ages whilst their fans were saying they weren't hood enough, & a lot more have come good than haven't.

 

[keniget]

It is but City brought loads through when they were shit. Largely out of nessecity.

You just have to keep the faith whether you're winning or not.

 

[rampage]

I rather throw him into the deep than play the likes of Adam, we have nothing to lose anyway.

 

[peterhague]

It is but City brought loads through when they were shit. Largely out of nessecity.

You just have to keep the faith whether you're winning or not.

Exactly. That's all there really is to it. All the talk about whether to bring them in at this or that time, for 10 minutes or 5 minutes, when the game's dead or alive, it's all kind of missing the point. Bringing through youngsters is an investment in the future, and like any investment there's a risk involved. If you're not willing to accept poor performances and mistakes as part of the deal you might as well not fucking bother. That's largely what it comes down to: are you brave enough to take the long term view?

 

[FoxForceFive]

Oh yeah, Everton manage it with some regularity too but then you have the reverse situation almost, where there's much less expectation & need for a league position so they can put up some bad results taking solace from gradual improvement of players.

We're in a position where we need results but would like to blood young players too, unfortunately it's very difficult to prioritise both, they're very often mutaly exclusive.

 

[dantes]

The real reason young players don't get picked, is not due to risk, but more an unspoken fear of upsetting senior players by dropping them for a kid. Downing / Sterling. Who in the name of all that is holy can honestly justify the notion that one is more of a risk than the other? What the fuck is so special about Downing than makes him less likely to be a cunt? It's nothing to do with taking risks, and everything to do with the rank of players in the squad.

Footballers are on the whole stupid creatures who repeat the exact same things year after year. Being 27 or 17 makes little difference.

 

[dmishra]

What keni said.

 

[Delinquent]

It is but City brought loads through when they were shit. Largely out of nessecity.

You just have to keep the faith whether you're winning or not.

I think the most disappointing thing is the amount of money and game minutes we've wasted on players who aren't good enough, when there were arguably better options in the reserves.

 

[Modo]

I think some of you are exaggerating a bit. I've been following reserve football for a while and during the last ten years we havent really had any real exciting talents. I mean there was Partridge, Welsh and co. Then you got you Hammills and Andersons, but they clearly weren't good enough. I don't believe first team action would changed anything. You all see where they ended up playing.
Rafa himself said that the academy pretty much wasnt up to standard and the scouting network needed improvement.
We're seeing the results of his work now.
The only thing that bothers me is that instead of playing our reserves we opted to buy players who weren't significantly better.

 

[irishred]

Teams our youngsters have made their first-team debut against:

Suso - Borussia Monchengladbach (Friendly)
Raheem Sterling - Borussia Monchengladbach (Friendly)
Martin Kelly - Lyon (Champions League)
Jay Spearing - PSV (Champions League)
Jon Flanagan - Man City (Premier League)
Daniel Pacheco - Fiorentina (Champions League)
Danny Wilson - Northampton Town (League Cup)
Jonjo Shelvey - Northampton Town (League Cup), First start Napoli (Europa League)
Stephen Warnock - Grazek AK (Champions League)
Djimi Traore - Hull City (League Cup 2nd Round)
Neil Mellor - Ipswich Town (League Cup 4th Round)
Gabriel Paletta - Wrexham (Friendly)
Paul Anderson - Wrexham (Friendly)
Jack Hobbs - Wrexham (Friendly)
Daniel Ayala - Tottenham Hotspur (Premier League)
Tom Ince - Northampton Town (League Cup 3rd round)
Emiliano Insua - Portsmouth (Premier League)
Stephen Darby - Tottenham Hotspur (League Cup 4th round)

It seems the better the opposition, the better the player.

 

[Modo]

Ayala must be top class then.