Whether people like it or not I do still think being a scouser and living in the city is a big part of being a supporter.
You might care as much bring an OOT but not in the same ways. It's a less tribal connection.
So just outta interest, if losing the Derby..(the impromptu wine thread)
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Whether people like it or not I do still think being a scouser and living in the city is a big part of being a supporter.
You might care as much bring an OOT but not in the same ways. It's a less tribal connection.
Pragmatism on this level has no place in football.
The whole idea of football supporting is built on the absurd, but poetic premise that collective belief by a bunch of people can actually will success to the team. The idea of willing failure, though the mechanism is identical in its absurdity, is the death of the whole enterprise.
One of the commentators last week spoke to the fact that villa would have been looking to quiet the Anfield crowd, and that the early Milner goal would have done exactly the opposite. They then cut to the crowd and the commentator wryfully said, well, now they are in quiet satisfaction.
Our support is shit. As shit as Rodgers ability to cobble together a competent defense. As shit as our owners attempts to have some sort of cohesive transfer strategy. Our support is precisely as shit as our sponsors New Balance tagline, which, without a fucking hint of comprehension, or any sense of irony, surrounds our team with the slogan "Always in Beta."
I'm hoping we win, because even if I accepted this stupid premise, I don't want to have a bigger picture during games. You start to zoom out from this shit and its never going to work, especially now that football has been entirely coopted by money. You might see it for what it is. I'm pro-red colour, because that's what I was told was right, with no fucking context or reason, from when I was born.
The whole idea of football supporting is built on the absurd, but poetic premise that collective belief by a bunch of people can actually will success to the team. The idea of willing failure, though the mechanism is identical in its absurdity, is the death of the whole enterprise.
One of the commentators last week spoke to the fact that villa would have been looking to quiet the Anfield crowd, and that the early Milner goal would have done exactly the opposite. They then cut to the crowd and the commentator wryfully said, well, now they are in quiet satisfaction.
Our support is shit. As shit as Rodgers ability to cobble together a competent defense. As shit as our owners attempts to have some sort of cohesive transfer strategy. Our support is precisely as shit as our sponsors New Balance tagline, which, without a fucking hint of comprehension, or any sense of irony, surrounds our team with the slogan "Always in Beta."
I'm hoping we win, because even if I accepted this stupid premise, I don't want to have a bigger picture during games. You start to zoom out from this shit and its never going to work, especially now that football has been entirely coopted by money. You might see it for what it is. I'm pro-red colour, because that's what I was told was right, with no fucking context or reason, from when I was born.
Er, nah.
All the blind hope will return in spades as soon as a new manager arrives.
I think your premise is just wrong. Football support isn't based on that belief I've bolded. I've never seen it presented like that before and it certainly doesn't ring true.
None of us is trying to 'will' anything, and we wouldn't believe in it if we did.
People - mainly men - surely follow football teams because it appeals to our tribal nature, and that deep-rooted preference for teamwork. It's more warlike in essence than religious.
I think it's more like the way people watch eastenders and stuff.
I don't see your characterization as incompatible with what I said.
If there's some biological/tribal impulse for teamwork being appealed to by football, what is the teamwork at play between supporters and those actually materially doing everything? If there isn't one, why sing a song? What is the point of beating the drums of war?
If there's some biological/tribal impulse for teamwork being appealed to by football, what is the teamwork at play between supporters and those actually materially doing everything? If there isn't one, why sing a song? What is the point of beating the drums of war?
Not for long, and not as intensely. Our belief is burning out like the seratonin receptors of a pill fiend.
I don't see that what the fans do at matches, or even the attendance itself, necessarily follows from the initial drive to follow the team.
To me it seems to go like this: impulse drives adoption of some plausibly connected team, that creates loyalty, loyalty creates interest, interest creates attendance, pragmatism (help the team to win) as well togetherness drives vocal support etc.
What fans do at the ground shares some of the same roots of the initial drive to have a 'team', but also some different ones. It is well past the point of sentience to still be defined as some kind of instinctive, atavistic, behaviour.
Fuck this conversation
Peter, you're talking out of your hole again.
You don't half spout some shite sometimes.
Fuck me - someone get a mop, Peter's Haguasmed all over the floor again.
Groan, I don't want to have to argue with you, but you keep trying.
What's your objection, then?
If that post by tague doesn't make you want to kill yourself then you should think about killing yourself.
I'm not looking for an argument - I just think you're talking nonsense.
I think you're overthinking it and then applying that though as a blanket.
Sure - the tribal side of it might be what appeals to some people - a quasi-religious side might appeal to others.
Some people, self included, it has nothing to do with feeling part of "a tribe" or a religion- it's as much about simply having something to talk about and take an interest in.
I see it as a hobby that sometimes brings me joy.
Hang on, so Fark raises (or lowers) the conversation to a pretty intellectual (poncy?) level, I respond to his thoughts, and *I'm* the one to blame??
Oh I like that.
Oh I like that.
I would therefore urge you to think about it a bit more. IMO you just haven't realised the nature of your interest.
Do you get upset if we lose?
Do you have strong feelings towards, say, Man Utd, being successful?
If yes then what you're experiencing isn't the result of a 'hobby'.
Anybody who followed this club for a sustained period of time, OOT or not, would never want to lose this derby. You would have to be a daft cunt to wish that on LFC and hard pressed to call yourself a fan as well.
IMHO of course.
Farky always makes my eyes bleed with his awkwardly overwritten flourishes but you actually managed too outdo him.
I think I get it. It's like the way most of this site would feel happy if you got your head run over by a lorry.
LOL come off it mate you're as happy as anyone to spout off pseud nonsense if it suits you.
Nah
I've very passionate about wine.
I get upset if a nice bottle I've been saving is corked on opening. I feel strongly that certain wines are better than others.
I get upset if someone suggests Sauvignon Blanc is better that Riesling.
I'm fiercely loyal to certain producers and regions, while ambivalent to others. Their are certain producers and wineries I detests
I have particular "routines" I have when drinking wine - specific glassware for specific wines, orders in which specific wines should be drunk, I'll gargle most sips like its mouthwash.
Actually - I could say the same for beer.
So.... Am I being tribal or religious?
My description of what was going on wasn't intellectual, it was essentially saying that I watch football for childish/romantic reasons. I attempt to keep it that way, though its getting hard the more that people make money of it and a whole industry surrounds it.
What you did with it thereafter with your attempted geneology of why someone sings at the ground wasn't intellectual either, but it was definitely trying to be. It was a less comprehensible logical equivalent of yoda describing how pain leads to the dark side, i.e. a fucking retarded syllogism.
Whatever it is it's clearly not a hobby.
You don't understand what a syllogism is.
Oh, great.
I'll look forward to you logically dismantling it then, which would therefore be easy.
Because obviously just hurling insults at it wouldn't really be your thing.
I'd accept alcoholism.
However.... I have so many nerdy addictions it's seems unfair to single one out.
A less comprehensible logical equivalent.
Like seriously.
Like seriously.
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