Didn't we finish 2nd in league with Insua at LB?
Skrtel
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He was getting a good percentage of games, but was not playing every week. Which is my point.
To Modo: the year we finished 2nd, Insua played 13 games, as he got a run ahead of the injured Aurelio and shit Dossena.
The next year when he caused people like Avvy to characterise him as 'ponderous and shit' he played 44 games. He wasn't ready.
The next year when he caused people like Avvy to characterise him as 'ponderous and shit' he played 44 games. He wasn't ready.
I could have checked, but I decided to wing it and I was wrong.
I would ideally be all for 'cashing in'; and if Skrtel wants to join Citeh I hope we have the ability to take them to the cleaners.
But lets answer the obvious point; if we got 25 million for Skrtel we're likely to blow 16 of that on Scott Dann or somebody.
Yeah, if he wants to go so much we wont have a choice, but lets not congratulate ourselves on fleecing some team until we've seen who we bring in.
But lets answer the obvious point; if we got 25 million for Skrtel we're likely to blow 16 of that on Scott Dann or somebody.
Yeah, if he wants to go so much we wont have a choice, but lets not congratulate ourselves on fleecing some team until we've seen who we bring in.
Fair enough, Doc.
You're right that he is looking much better these days; but the point is whether or not we want to take the same kind of risk again.
Insua wasnt ready, but he was still really poor.
And if he had quality with him we might have seen a far better player emerge over a few years.
There is every chance that if we sold a quality player like Skrtel, we might be doing to Coates or even Kelly for that matter exactly what we did to Insua.
You're right that he is looking much better these days; but the point is whether or not we want to take the same kind of risk again.
Insua wasnt ready, but he was still really poor.
And if he had quality with him we might have seen a far better player emerge over a few years.
There is every chance that if we sold a quality player like Skrtel, we might be doing to Coates or even Kelly for that matter exactly what we did to Insua.
That was Doc's point Avey. People seem ready to rest on having Coates and Kelly as back up. Even if we get £20m for Skrtel, we still have to buy a centre back. According to some, there are plenty available for under £10m that are better than the Slovak.
Personally I just think it's another dose of selling mentality. How many times are we going to sell our player of the season? He might not be quite in the bracket of Torres and Alonso, but he's another one of our quality players that people seem a bit passive about. Especially the Agger flag wavers like Modo and Kris.
We should add quality on quality. Not withdraw quality and then start adding watered down versions of what we once had - which has been our problem for too many seasons recently. It has to stop.
As for Rosco hypothesizing about what we have available, he did that last season and we outspent it. No one knows what's available and what we will spend, so this assumption we need the extra £10m from selling Skrtel (which is what it will more or less be after buying a replacement) are basing it on conjecture and paper talk. So the ideal is not that we're making £20m on a top player, but that we're flogging him for the sake of adding £10m to top up whatever we have available. Ridiculous thinking.
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the_khl
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You guys are underestimating Coates. He's is no rookie despite being of tender age. He was voted The Best Young Player of the Copa Libertadores in '11 and has already had 9 Internationals under his belt.
There'll be fuck-ups from him in the future as well but I'm sure we've got a real player on our hands here.
There'll be fuck-ups from him in the future as well but I'm sure we've got a real player on our hands here.
I like the idea!
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the_khl
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For the record, I don't think at all there are many available defenders who's better than Skrtel for under £10M. I really don't think there is.
I'm weighing our options is all and you can get your hands on very good defenders for £10M and with an additional £10M to spend elsewhere we'd have every chance of moving forward from that deal, not backwards I believe.
"I'm sure"... do you not see the doubt? He's got potential based on what he's done in a completely different footballing culture. I do think he can look the part, but he can also look clumsy and indecisive. And on paper at least, he bares more resemblance to Agger than he does to Skrtel or Carragher, so potentially it could be two like for likes playing together and finding they don't compliment each other that much.
I find it astounding that you can big up the merits of a youngster based on what if's, yet you're quick to dismiss Skrtel as not that good - our player of the season last year.
Your complete bias on this subject is ridiculous, I'm surprised you haven't recommended that bag of shite Kjaer as a much better player for us to go for.
We shouldn't be selling our best players if we want a return to the Top 4 but if they want to go then that's an altogether different story. We should sell for top dollar and not accept any ransom demands from players or other buying clubs. It will be done on our terms only.
Skrtel had a great season but he like most players in our squad aren't irreplaceable. Personally I think that Kelly hasn't done anything to warrant the justification of being moved to CB as a replacement for anyone. He is a solid RB who is prone to the odd mistake and still learning but more glaringly is even more injury prone than Agger. So that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Coates needs a loan spell away to get more Premiership experience. He isn't quite ready and the only way to improve is getting playing time. His lack of pace for me is a worry but Sami is a great example. No disrespect but Carra is a disaster at this point and is best used as a sub if at all. His future is part of the coaching staff.
Ideally we should be looking to add 3 top quality first teamers to the squad but the reality is that we need more unless we are going to persevere with the likes of Downing, Adam and co.
Q: Are you guys discounting that if we sell Skrtel that we won't go out and buy a ready made first team replacement?
£25m for Skrtel is worth considering. I don't agree with this nonsense that you should never* sell your best players, every player should have a price.
If we could sign James Tomkins from West Ham for £12m and sell Skrtel for £25m I would be perfectly happy going into the season with Agger, Tomkins, Coates, Kelly & Carra as our CB options.
* The only exception being a talismanic individual like Gerrard but Skrtel does not fall into this category.
If we could sign James Tomkins from West Ham for £12m and sell Skrtel for £25m I would be perfectly happy going into the season with Agger, Tomkins, Coates, Kelly & Carra as our CB options.
* The only exception being a talismanic individual like Gerrard but Skrtel does not fall into this category.
No Roland, but the point is that, out of the reported £20m price, we'd be paying for a centre back, which arguably leaves us with in the region of £10m to boost the coffers and as we know, money is no guarantee of success, and £10m is hardly breaking the bank either. So we'd be selling a quality player and taking another gamble, as we've seen with Aquilani and co in recent seasons.
Our two best players last season, out of all the money spent, were Bellamy and Enrique. No one knows our financial predicament and whether a player sale like this is even necessary.
Our two best players last season, out of all the money spent, were Bellamy and Enrique. No one knows our financial predicament and whether a player sale like this is even necessary.
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the_khl
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It's pretty annoying you get so fired up all the time Mark. Can't we discuss the matter in a more normal way?
Fair enough you disagree but really it's getting tiresome with all the abuse and namecalling.
Anyways, you rate Skrtel more than I do. I don't think Skrtel is a top defender - apart from one Season - why I think it would be clever to cash in now if there's any suiters out there prepared to break the bank for him.
I've got faith in Kelly and Coates to partner Agger and I've got faith that Rodgers will replace him with someone with great ability and ready to fit into his system going forward.
Maybe I'm wrong, who knows.
And Kjaer is not a better defender than Skrtel. He's got ability, he's young and will improve, but he's not a better defender than Skrtel. Potential is there, but whether he'll improve still is yet to be seen.
Good shout Pesam. Only saw a few West Ham games last season but was very impressed with Tomkins.
He's a handsome SOB too.
He's gonna cost us whatever we get from selling Skrtel. Carroll story again.
It's not namecalling it's just frustrating trying to debate the point KHL when you've always had a soft touch for Agger and as a result, a tendency to play down Skrtel at any give opportunity. There's no point debating it is there?
If City offered £20m for Agger I doubt you'd be so flippant about the need to sell.
If City offered £20m for Agger I doubt you'd be so flippant about the need to sell.
This is exactly what annoys me about your footballing points Modo, you make such a bold statement as "good shout!".... followed by, "well I've only watched him a few times". "He's gonna cost us whatever we get from selling Skrtel".
Do you even think before you post?
Yeah I think Tomkins could be the new Tony Adams and West Ham would probably hold us to ransom if they knew we were selling Skrtel.
I'd like to think that I do and I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm praising Pesam for mentioning Tomkins.
Yes, I haven't watched that many West Ham games but from the ones I've seen I got the impression that Tomkins was very good. Problem is, he's English and young.
West Ham are in no hurry to sell and if we for some reason sell Skrtel and go after Tomkins, West Ham are gonna try to do one over us like Newcastle and Aston Villa did.
I think he's superb Fabio, as I mentioned, he reminds me a lot of Tony Adams, he's a very dominant player at both ends of the pitch, he reads the game superbly, he's quick enough, decent in possession and very strong aerially.
I think he'll be an England regular very soon.
The point I was making was that you claimed Tomkins was a good shout and in the next breath said you'd only seen him a few times - for a Championship side. This is why I can't take the eagerness to sell Skrtel seriously, because the justification and well thought out opinions regarding his replacements are laughable.
There are more than a few decent CB available in the Premiership for 10M but like you said there's no guarantees. Rodgers is the only one who knows whats available in the transfer kitty. So all we can do is trust him to do what's good and right for the club as the captain of our ship. I actually believe that he is a very astute manager with wide ranging contacts. He'll make some very good additions and get us playing the right way to get results because thats all that matters in the end.
The only reason I'm even discussing this with you is because he apparently wants to leave.
I don't really think it's a good idea to force a player who only has two years left in his contract to stay.
Tbh if Agger wanted to leave I'd probably be saying the same.
I don't see how we'll benefit from turning down £20 Million and keeping a player who perhaps is unwilling to sign a new contract.
Yeah I jumped on the Tomkins bandwagon after the play off final, looks a very good prospect. I still think we'd end up going after caulker though, who I rate as well.
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the_khl
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Fair enough mate.
And no, I wouldn't really consider selling any of Reina, Johnson, Agger, Gerrard, Carroll and Suarez.
*Unless of course they wanted out.
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