Did you completely (conveniently) ignore the part where I said, let's spend what money we do have on good players?
Skrtel
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Did you completely (conveniently) ignore the part where I said, let's spend what money we do have on good players?
That's not what he is saying.
Er, yes he is. He wants money to buy players and selling Skrtel (one of our best performers for several seasons) is the way he wants to do it.
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the_khl
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I can understand why some posters are against selling our best players, I am too.
Skrtel was one of the best performers last Season no doubt about that, much improved too, but he's no Alonso, Masher or Torres in terms of importance for the team imo. He's simply had too many mediocre Seasons why £20M after his by far best one yet, could prove a very shrewd deal.
No one really know whether he'd keep up his new found level of performance, he might, but he might not just as well. So taking into consideration his importance to the team, his performance levels over the years and the potential re-investing elsewhere in the team I believe it's a good deal if true. Again I'd be well against selling Skrtel for say £10M as we'd then struggle to do anything but replace one good defender with another with the money gained.
Same logic for me could apply for Lucas. Mediocre for a number of Seasons and then he stepped up. Sadly got injured but even if he hadn't and kept his level of performance Season through I believe £20M would be another good deal for us, simply as he's not an 'irreplaceable' in the team. Yet at least.
Reina, Johnson, Agger, Gerrard, Suarez and Carroll are for the me the ones we can't sell if we want to move on as they'd all be extremely difficult to replace short-term. (Carroll's on a wild-card but he's been showing glimpses of what we can expect when he's up and running).
Skrtel was one of the best performers last Season no doubt about that, much improved too, but he's no Alonso, Masher or Torres in terms of importance for the team imo. He's simply had too many mediocre Seasons why £20M after his by far best one yet, could prove a very shrewd deal.
No one really know whether he'd keep up his new found level of performance, he might, but he might not just as well. So taking into consideration his importance to the team, his performance levels over the years and the potential re-investing elsewhere in the team I believe it's a good deal if true. Again I'd be well against selling Skrtel for say £10M as we'd then struggle to do anything but replace one good defender with another with the money gained.
Same logic for me could apply for Lucas. Mediocre for a number of Seasons and then he stepped up. Sadly got injured but even if he hadn't and kept his level of performance Season through I believe £20M would be another good deal for us, simply as he's not an 'irreplaceable' in the team. Yet at least.
Reina, Johnson, Agger, Gerrard, Suarez and Carroll are for the me the ones we can't sell if we want to move on as they'd all be extremely difficult to replace short-term. (Carroll's on a wild-card but he's been showing glimpses of what we can expect when he's up and running).
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the_khl
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He's not been one of our best performers for several Seasons. He really hasn't.
Last year at around same time there where talks of him being moved on and not many seemed to care much as he far to often made one or more fuck-up per game. Posters were saying that Cahill and Dann would make us stronger in the back if were selling Skrtel and Agger. Agger was injured and never got going and Skrtel had a very difficult time adjusting playing alongside Carra.
People who use the phrase "selling club" are usually fucking complete morons. If you can afford to spend 150m in paying your players and buying players every season, and 130m of it is tied up in shite players who have you in 8th spot - what would you do ? You sell and try to spend that money on something better. Lets just face up to reality and get on with it. Lets not fuck about trying to make statements of intent and showing ambition. That's what we did with our spending last year ... where did that get us ?
Villa fans knew they overextended themselves and it was time to pay the piper. Spurs on the other hand knew their limits, knew selling Keane and Berbatov was the best move forward because it gave them funds to improve and they did so, look where they are now after being accused of lacking ambition. 4 places above us with our statement of intent last season.
My only question was about Pepe ? I didn't pose one ! Unless you failed to recognise the rhetorical nature of my statement. And I certainly didn't say he is on the slide. Guess you read what you want to read when I said he's had one poor season, as any player can.
Not one iota of your whole post reflects the questions I actually posed to you (instead you go off on a tangent about selling Agger - which I didn't mention - and a slamming of Pepe - who I didn't mention in my last post either, other than to correct your totally incorrect assertion he has been on the slide for 3 years) whereas in fact I actually listed the two questions - which you sidestepped (for the second time) and ignored them because they blow holes in your arguments. How about answering the questions I asked ? Here they are again since you so blatantly avoided them or are you going to go for the hat trick and refuse to answer them again ?
1. Agger - if he is so injury prone why on earth sell Skrtel ?
2. Did we or did we not look, for a good part of last season, and for half the season before, like Top 4 contenders. And if so then what has changed so drastically to create such degeneration in the team as you would have us believe is the situation ?
That despite him being voted our Player of the Season last year ?
1. Because he's likely to be overvalued.
2. All teams have good and bad form throughout the year. We're the eight best team in league. Deal with it.
You don't really see how wrong you are do you ?
Wait til this time next year.
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the_khl
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To answer you first point Frogfish - you forgetting that Agger's the one been underlining his desire to stay where as rumors are gathering that Skrtel's head has been turned and he wants out?
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the_khl
Guest
Key word you should be looking for here is 'several'. Ok?
*I've just said two minutes ago that he was one of our best performers last Seasons, so please.
That's no answer, Kristian. If Skrtel goes and Agger gets crocked again, we're stuffed.
No he is not. He (and me) are saying that out of all current crop of 1st 11 players Skrtel is the one who would be missed the least. Good player for sure. I'm not arguing that but essential to the future success of the club? I'm not so sure. Maybe I'm underestimating him. He did have a good last season but he's hardly been the standout defender over the course of his LFC career. Ask yourself is he 'essential'? If Coates, Carra, Kelly, or Wilson replace him would our defence be fundamentally weakened to the point that we would start massively shipping goals. Again I don't think so. However would an extra 20Million be useful? Where could that money be spent to improve the team? I'm sure you could tell me that.
In an ideal world keeping Skrtel and having a 50million transfer budget would be great. It's not an ideal world and sometimes sacrifices must be made. If we could get 20million for Spearing I'd be all over that.
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the_khl
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It's a risk, it always is and even bigger in Agger's case because of his history, but IF we were to sell Skrtel we'd be buying a replacement of course? Otherwise I'd be well against selling Skrtel no matter the prize.
Agger, Kelly, Coates, Carra plus £10M new guy. The rest goes towards other areas.
Good points, Skrtel makes the occasional mess-up (as Neil elegantly put "he always has a penalty in him) but I do believe it's because he's played out of position to accommodate Carra. When Carra was on his 2005 season form that's understandable but now? Skrtel has looked immense in partnership with Agger. With Coates and, potentially, Kelly and Wilson as back-up why change our plans for the defence? If its because Man City can offer us an opportunity then it's one we shouldn't be taking.
We have problems in midfield and the wings. I say concentrate there.
So you'd sell Skrtel and leave us with (to paraphrase your words) 'an injury prone CB who won't play half of the season', leaving us with Coates, Kelly and Carra as our CBs ? Brilliant, absolutely stunning logic.
And you don't see how petulantly arrogant you are being in assuming you have it all sussed out do you ?
Do we have another 'Kelly' at the Club? Only Kelly i can think of at LFC is Martin Kelly and he's a full back.
I understand that point - I'm curious though - Do you have any faith in Coates, Kelly, Carra or even Wilson?
What statements of intent did we make last year?
What has that got to do with anything I've said in this thread ? In fact what has that got to do with anything at all !?
I don't want Agger sold and I didn't suggest he should be. I posed a question to show that Rosco's thought process on selling Skrtel is flawed if he thought Agger was so injury prone he would be in the physios room more than on the pitch.
Kelly has played CB before and was widely touted as being a replacement for Carra. He could play both CB and FB.
Once again it all comes down to how much we've got to spend for me. If we've got enough to bring in the quality attacking players that we need then i'd be dead against selling him even for the reported £20mil, if however we're going to have to raise some cash via a sale then Skrtel would be the obvious choice to move on imo.
1. He'd bring in a fee that outweighs his true value to us.
2. As has been proven over recent years you can pick up quality defenders for very reasonable transfer fees.
3. We also have 2 young players in Kelly and Coates who could potentially fill the void.
1. He'd bring in a fee that outweighs his true value to us.
2. As has been proven over recent years you can pick up quality defenders for very reasonable transfer fees.
3. We also have 2 young players in Kelly and Coates who could potentially fill the void.
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the_khl
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I've utmost faith in Kelly mate myself, he'll defo make it. Ever since he broke through he's looked like a gem of a player (and I'm not talking in the LTW/FSP-bracket).
He's been getting loads of experience playing as a full back and it will make him even stronger overall. It's very common for youngsters to be played slightly out of position to gain experience and increase their skill-levels. Future top player for us I hope.
Coates has looked a bit hit and miss so far but from what we've seen so far and the way journos and pundits I've been agreeing with on earlier occasions praised him during Copa Libertadores, means I've still got great faith in him too.
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the_khl
Guest
My bad then, apologies.
Of course - he's well proven in that CB role in the PL isn't he.
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the_khl
Guest
He'll play as a CB eventually, I'm positive.
City could potentially be offering us silly money for Skrtel. I think Skrtel is a good defender but I dont think he's irreplaceable. Add that money to our current transfer kit and we could possible afford a marquee signing along with 3-4 lesser known players( your Cabaye's and Konoplyankas).
Do you not find it more than a little disconcerting then that the people who train these players day in day out are preferring Coates as the back-up CB (with Kelly not getting a look in) whilst Kelly only ever plays at RB ? It doesn't suggest they have confidence in his ability to handle the CB role (yet - I hope) .
Right I'll be patient with you - Do you think he's not good enough to play CB or ever will be???
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the_khl
Guest
Haven't thought too much about it to be honest as Coates has been brought in and was in need of games. And as he is older and more experienced it made sense.
Nothing is set in stone but I do believe the club has great faith in Kelly, I know I have.
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