Skrtel

[OLD_Lewy]

if city, or anyone else offer us something above 5 mill we should sell, id like to see coates come into the first team so we'd be buying back-up / competition for him. realistically he's had one good season for us so if people want to pay silly money for him then thats ok with me

 

[mark1975]

Key word you should be looking for here is 'several'. Ok?

*I've just said two minutes ago that he was one of our best performers last Seasons, so please.

Yet you said he's had "too many" mediocre seasons, suggesting he's been poor often - he hasn't. He was great for about the first 18 months he was here, keeping Agger out the side in the process, he then had a season where he struggled and had a good season again last season.

He might not be at the level of Alonso and co - few are, but by our current standards, and that includes wonderboy when he's fit, he's still one of our best assets. The only reason you're content with selling him is because of who he is. It's a win win as far as this argument goes with you, though I fear for whoever comes in to replace him, because whoever it is, dependent on Nationality will have to really be something to not be overshadowed by the Great Dane.

We'd be left with -

Agger - Quality when fit, and that being the key issue, he's as likely to spend months on the sidelines as he is available. Despite current medical form.

Carragher - Well past his best, good as cover only and against smaller cup sides.

Coates - Largely an unknown, has had a few great games and a few stinkers. Young, inexperienced, similar in style to Agger and potentially not the best foil for him. Also worryingly slow on the turn. Not a great issue, as we saw with Sami, but something that has an effect on the way the defense can play.

Kelly - Pointless debate as no one has really seen him play there except for at reserve team level. It's something of a theory at present and that's it. So depending on it in any shape or form is a gamble.

New guy - has to hit or surpass the standards of Skrtel and Agger last season, a tall order for a player in such a key position in the side. He not only has to hit the ground running but has to compliment what we already have and has to fit the system we'll play. A big ask all round, and it will be at a restricted asking price because we're trying to make money here, right?

So all in all, it's not a given, infact it's a massive gamble that's being advocated by posters all too willing to be dismissive of the talents of a present player, in the hope that for one, we'll find an able replacement, and two, we'll spend the remaining cash well. People are forgetting that out of £20m we'll be buying a replacement. That's not leaving us much to find this World Class attacking talent it's meant to be funding.

It's all pie in the sky bullshit, frankly.

 

[Red Mullet]

No he is not. He (and me) are saying that out of all current crop of 1st 11 players Skrtel is the one who would be missed the least. Good player for sure. I'm not arguing that but essential to the future success of the club? I'm not so sure. Maybe I'm underestimating him. He did have a good last season but he's hardly been the standout defender over the course of his LFC career. Ask yourself is he 'essential'? If Coates, Carra, Kelly, or Wilson replace him would our defence be fundamentally weakened to the point that we would start massively shipping goals. Again I don't think so. However would an extra 20Million be useful? Where could that money be spent to improve the team? I'm sure you could tell me that.

In an ideal world keeping Skrtel and having a 50million transfer budget would be great. It's not an ideal world and sometimes sacrifices must be made. If we could get 20million for Spearing I'd be all over that.

There are tiers of player quality within the club with essentials being at the top. Skrtel may only 'just' be in the tier below but there are plenty of players that are in the lower tiers so why not get rid of those first?

*can some list those players to see if the sum of those sales = £20mil?*

 

[Frogfish]

Right I'll be patient with you - Do you think he's not good enough to play CB or ever will be???

I like Kelly and I'd hope with his physical attributes that he has more in him and could adapt to make a fine CB .... but we haven't seen it yet and so the point I'm making is it would be total folly to sell a player of Skrtel's standing and expect that any of the players we currently have at the club (including Kelly) could replace him as Agger's partner in the heart of our defence. A step by step approach and not diving in head-first if you like.

 

[the_khl]

if city, or anyone else offer us something above 5 mill we should sell, id like to see coates come into the first team so we'd be buying back-up / competition for him. realistically he's had one good season for us so if people want to pay silly money for him then thats ok with me

*runs for cover*

 

[Red Mullet]

City could potentially be offering us silly money for Skrtel. I think Skrtel is a good defender but I dont think he's irreplaceable. Add that money to our current transfer kit and we could possible afford a marquee signing along with 3-4 lesser known players( your Cabaye's and Konoplyankas).

The thing is, Modo, £20 million isn't silly money. City are after him as back up, so won't be paying over £25 million.

 

[Modo]

He'll play as a CB eventually, I'm positive.

His hammies are probably gonna force him to make the move to CB. Havent we been through this before with Carra. Somewhere along the way a new manager will come in and recognize that Kelly is a CB.

 

[mark1975]

His hammies are probably gonna force him to make the move to CB. Havent we been through this before with Carra. Somewhere along the way a new manager will come in and recognize that Kelly is a CB.

This may be the case, but it doesn't automatically mean he'll be successful at it. He already has his flaws as a fullback and can be quite naive when it comes to positioning and decisiveness. That may be an age thing but that's half the point, he's inexperienced as a player, never mind in a role he's never played at this level.

 

[Red Astaire]

*can some list those players to see if the sum of those sales = £20mil?*

That is a very good point. Who else is worth 20million+? 20 Million for Skrtel is a no brainer.

 

[OLD_Lewy]

*runs for cover*

it was a typo! i meant 15mill!

 

[the_khl]

Yet you said he's had "too many" mediocre seasons, suggesting he's been poor often - he hasn't. He was great for about the first 18 months he was here, keeping Agger out the side in the process, he then had a season where he struggled and had a good season again last season.

He might not be at the level of Alonso and co - few are, but by our current standards, and that includes wonderboy when he's fit, he's still one of our best assets. The only reason you're content with selling him is because of who he is. It's a win win as far as this argument goes with you, though I fear for whoever comes in to replace him, because whoever it is, dependent on Nationality will have to really be something to not be overshadowed by the Great Dane.

We'd be left with -

Agger - Quality when fit, and that being the key issue, he's as likely to spend months on the sidelines as he is available. Despite current medical form.

Carragher - Well past his best, good as cover only and against smaller cup sides.

Coates - Largely an unknown, has had a few great games and a few stinkers. Young, inexperienced, similar in style to Agger and potentially not the best foil for him. Also worryingly slow on the turn. Not a great issue, as we saw with Sami, but something that has an effect on the way the defense can play.

Kelly - Pointless debate as no one has really seen him play there except for at reserve team level. It's something of a theory at present and that's it. So depending on it in any shape or form is a gamble.

New guy - has to hit or surpass the standards of Skrtel and Agger last season, a tall order for a player in such a key position in the side. He not only has to hit the ground running but has to compliment what we already have and has to fit the system we'll play. A big ask all round, and it will be at a restricted asking price because we're trying to make money here, right?

So all in all, it's not a given, infact it's a massive gamble that's being advocated by posters all too willing to be dismissive of the talents of a present player, in the hope that for one, we'll find an able replacement, and two, we'll spend the remaining cash well. People are forgetting that out of £20m we'll be buying a replacement. That's not leaving us much to find this World Class attacking talent it's meant to be funding.

It's all pie in the sky bullshit, frankly.

The thing is you could be right, we could be shooting ourselves in the foot if were to sell one of the key players from last Season. And I'm sure we'd not be having this discussion at all had we been 4th or better.

We ended in 8th place however and changes are needed - new manager has come in and new players will follow, and a new system will probably be applied as well. Skrtel has been a very reliable character in terms of always showing up giving his utmost. For me he's lacked the quality of a real top defender but he's been a stronger asset than Agger at times because he's rarely injured.

£20M is a great amount of money for almost any player and in Skrtel's case I believe it exceeds his real value. Don't know how to put this without offending anyone as I'm not trying to stir anything up here, but it's too good a deal to turn down. Young, strong CBs are out there and they are available for far less money and perhaps even with a style more suitable to Rodgers' plan why I really won't worry to much should we indeed get £20M for Srktel.

 

[the_khl]

it was a typo! i meant 15mill!

That was one of the most dangerous typos I've seen on here for ages mate..

😀

 

[Hansern]

There is absolutly no point in selling him. He has just had his best season ever and stepped up massively.

Changing 6-7 players each year gets you nowhere. 2-3 quality additions to the squad we have now and we'll improve greatly.

 

[Modo]

To be honest I'd rather keep Skrtel and sell Adam and Downing.
We'd get about £20million for them.
But it doesnt look like they're going anywhere so Im a bit desperate.

 

[the_khl]

There is absolutly no point in selling him. He has just had his best season ever and stepped up massively.

Changing 6-7 players each year gets you nowhere. 2-3 quality additions to the squad we have now and we'll improve greatly.

Would you keep him still even if he wants out? Alas we'll get no fee at all in a few years time?

 

[Delinquent]

Er, yes he is. He wants money to buy players and selling Skrtel (one of our best performers for several seasons) is the way he wants to do it.

Well, yeah. But it doesn't follow that we should sell all of our best players.

 

[Red Mullet]

Well, yeah. But it doesn't follow that we should sell all of our best players.

We don't have many so if we sell, what 2-3 that's probably all of them.

 

[Hansern]

Would you keep him still even if he wants out? Alas we'll get no fee at all in a few years time?

Thats a completely different ball game. Probably not if they offer 20-25 mill.

 

[King Binny]

I think we'll be more than willing to sell Skrtel for silly money. No one is saying he's indispensable. But in an inflated English market, as a key player (that's not even considering how he fare) in a big/ambitious club that aspire to challenge for honours, from a club that has spent £930m over the past few seasons, £20m is a 'fair' offer, at best. That's not taking into consideration agent fees, loyalty bonus etc.

And the main supporting reason for accepting the deal? To boost the transfer kitty.

Will the lack of this additional £20m cause us to give up/miss out on serious targets?

I can slightly understand if its Rafa under Hicks & Gillett or GH under Moores' reign. But under FSG, seriously?

Under a man who sanctioned spending of over £100m over the past 12 mths?

Under a man who said "The fact is, LFC is going to require substantial investment, as did the Red Sox", "This is the wrong business to get into for profit", "We intend to build on the strength of the current squad, not undermine it." and "I can reassure our supporters that we have no intention of allowing the team to be weakened going forward."?

With these in mind, coupled with the other factors to consider as mentioned in the thread, as such
- Agger's fitness
- replacement issues (eg. Coates - comparision with Agger's integration but the latter was introduced into a successful team, one that was building upon a CL win and Martin Kelly)
- how good players can be available at decent prices (isn't that what FSG wants to achieve)
the reason for sale at the price of £20m is being outweighed imo.

 

[Red Mullet]

Would you keep him still even if he wants out? Alas we'll get no fee at all in a few years time?

Yes, to be honest I would, at least till the following season. I would tell him this and if he still wants out then he's free to go (subject to the right amount). This will make sure he plays a blinder the next season to ensure he has other clubs chasing him.

 

[King Binny]

Yes, to be honest I would, at least till the following season. I would tell him this and if he still wants out then he's free to go (subject to the right amount). This will make sure he plays a blinder the next season to ensure he has other clubs chasing him.

And in 2 season's time, he'll be 29. Would a club of Man City's stature still be waiting for him, to sign on a free transfer? (and talking about 'losses', look at the Poulsen, Konchesky, Cole deals and the money spent on stadium planning...)

 

[Red Mullet]

And in 2 season's time, he'll be 29. Would a club of Man City's stature still be waiting for him, to sign on a free transfer?

If he plays a blinding season other clubs would be after him.

Besides Citah are only after him to be a back up CB, so he's gonna warm the bench for them. Really don't think he'll go for that.

 

[the_khl]

I'd be well against keeping any players that wants out against their will. This is Liverpool FC if you don't want to play for us then get your ass out of here.

Don't think much good will ever come from keeping a player against his will either despite Modric keeping his levels up all Season for Spurs after wanting out.

 

[Red Mullet]

I'd be well against keeping any players that wants out against their will. This is Liverpool FC if you don't want to play for us then get your ass out of here.

Don't think much good will ever come from keeping a player against his will either despite Modric keeping his levels up all Season for Spurs after wanting out.

Ronaldo's last season for Man Utd was fantastic, as was Alonso.

If a player wants out then make him stay one more season (as long as his contract allows it, ie. minimum 2 years left), it ensures they have to play well otherwise clubs wont be so interested.

It's not just a case of "no one person is bigger than the club", it's a case of "don't mess with the club". Players that demand out and get out has essentially said they are bigger than the club.

 

[Judge Jules]

I understand that point - I'm curious though - Do you have any faith in Coates, Kelly, Carra or even Wilson?

I think they're all excellent players but I don't think any of them could replace Skrtel on a regular basis. Coates and Kelly aren't ready, Carra's in the twilight of his career and, though I haven't written Wilson off yet, I do think there's a question over whether he's Liverpool standard.

 

[Red Astaire]

I think they're all excellent players but I don't think any of them could replace Skrtel on a regular basis. Coates and Kelly aren't ready, Carra's in the twilight of his career and, though I haven't written Wilson off yet, I do think there's a question over whether he's Liverpool standard.

Ok - I think we'll have to agree to disagree JJ. I've always enjoyed reading your posts btw - Now seems as good a time as any to tell you. 🙂

 

[Judge Jules]

Most kind, sir. I respect your judgment likewise and don't often find myself disagreeing with you.

 

[Modo]

This may be the case, but it doesn't automatically mean he'll be successful at it. He already has his flaws as a fullback and can be quite naive when it comes to positioning and decisiveness. That may be an age thing but that's half the point, he's inexperienced as a player, never mind in a role he's never played at this level.

Kelly isn't my first choice after Skrtel, I'm just stating that his future position will most likely be at CB.
I agree with KHL that it wouldn't be difficult to find a suitable CB to replace Skrtel.
When have we paid more than £8 Million for a CB?

 

[Insignificance]

To be honest I'd rather keep Skrtel and sell Adam and Downing.
We'd get about £20million for them.
But it doesnt look like they're going anywhere so Im a bit desperate.

No offence mate, but using that argument on all occasions ain't constructive. Selling Adam and Downing is a good idea, but not the answer for what to do with Skrtel?

 

[doctor_mac]

Most kind, sir. I respect your judgment likewise and don't often find myself disagreeing with you.

If I were to ajudge on this most good natured of quarrels, I'd have to say that JJ has it.

I think they're all excellent players but I don't think any of them could replace Skrtel on a regular basis. Coates and Kelly aren't ready, Carra's in the twilight of his career and, though I haven't written Wilson off yet, I do think there's a question over whether he's Liverpool standard.

JJ, you're bang on the money. We could end up with an Insua situation on our hands. A very good player, entrusted to be no. 1 in his position way too early in his development. And Carra looks like he has a big mistake in him pretty much every game he plays, I'm sad to say. Coates has had some great games, but he has also had a few stinkers. Which is fair enough, he's learning, and I'm sure he'll be a great player soon enough. Kelly is practically untried at CB at the top level. We'd be mad to sell Skrtel and trust to these lads at CB.