Rodger's transfer dealings.
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RedZeppelin III
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I suspect that he wouldn't have come out & basically said Cissokho cant play football either.
OK, I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty much what he said.
OK, I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty much what he said.
Exactly, or the budget (incl wages) for it.
If Rodgers had a Chelsea/Man Utd/Man City size budget I'm sure he'd be targetting dead-cert 30m+ players much as Mourinho/Moyes/Pellegrini/potentially Wenger can.
We're (just) in the top four up against sides with significantly more spending power/revenues than we have. he's doing a decent job all round.
Surely it obvious that loaning Robinson & Wisdom out was in order for them to get guaranteed playing time - which they weren't going to get at Liverpool.
Assaidi & Borrini also stood more chance of getting games while on loan.
I think, if he could, Ibe & Alberto would be off out on loan too.
• Fabio Borini: £10,400,000 - Miss - Has looked decent at Sunderland, but struggled with injuries and poor form for us.
• Joe Allen: £15,000,000 - Early days - Young, promising midfielder, has looked great at times and average at others, again the victim of injuries.
• Oussama Assaidi: £2,400,000 - A low priced punt, now proving a real handful in the Premiership for Stoke, we'll at least make our money back
• Nuri Şahin: Loan - It didn't work out, for one reason or another, he cost us nothing and everyone was made up when we got him.
• Samed Yesil: £1,000,000 - A kid, again a low priced punt, suffered with injuries but has time on his side.
• Daniel Sturridge: £12,000,000 - Brilliant, he's probably worth 3-4 times what we paid for him already.
• Philippe Coutinho: £8,600,000 - Very good signing, looked amazing last season, absolute bargain.
• Luis Alberto: £6,800,000 - Big question marks, but again is only young and has time to make an impression
• Iago Aspas: £7,500,000 - Miss - will no doubt be going back to Spain the Summer.
• Simon Mignolet: £10,000,000 - Largely a success so far, despite a few wobbly games behind a terrible defense.
• Kolo Toure: Free. - Cost fuck all, started the season proving to be a shrewd signing, more than able squad player who's won the league with two other clubs.
• Aly Cissokho: Loan.- Poor, but he's on loan, again at least we got to have a look, he was one of Europe's bright young talents not long ago
• Tiago Ilori: £7,000,000 - Unknown quantity at the minute, looks set to go on loan to show what he can do, has looked well above others for the reserves - early days.
• Mamadou Sakho: £15,000,000 - One of Europe's hottest young defenders, has largely been a big hit.
• Victor Moses: Loan - Poor, again on loan, so we don't have to buy and commit big funds.
Rodgers needs to identify positions we need to strengthen and prioritise them more, but it's hardly a car crash of transfers, it's a mixture of youth, a few failed loans and the odd blip which every manager has. Sakho, Coutinho and Sturridge could be cornerstones of the team for years.
• Joe Allen: £15,000,000 - Early days - Young, promising midfielder, has looked great at times and average at others, again the victim of injuries.
• Oussama Assaidi: £2,400,000 - A low priced punt, now proving a real handful in the Premiership for Stoke, we'll at least make our money back
• Nuri Şahin: Loan - It didn't work out, for one reason or another, he cost us nothing and everyone was made up when we got him.
• Samed Yesil: £1,000,000 - A kid, again a low priced punt, suffered with injuries but has time on his side.
• Daniel Sturridge: £12,000,000 - Brilliant, he's probably worth 3-4 times what we paid for him already.
• Philippe Coutinho: £8,600,000 - Very good signing, looked amazing last season, absolute bargain.
• Luis Alberto: £6,800,000 - Big question marks, but again is only young and has time to make an impression
• Iago Aspas: £7,500,000 - Miss - will no doubt be going back to Spain the Summer.
• Simon Mignolet: £10,000,000 - Largely a success so far, despite a few wobbly games behind a terrible defense.
• Kolo Toure: Free. - Cost fuck all, started the season proving to be a shrewd signing, more than able squad player who's won the league with two other clubs.
• Aly Cissokho: Loan.- Poor, but he's on loan, again at least we got to have a look, he was one of Europe's bright young talents not long ago
• Tiago Ilori: £7,000,000 - Unknown quantity at the minute, looks set to go on loan to show what he can do, has looked well above others for the reserves - early days.
• Mamadou Sakho: £15,000,000 - One of Europe's hottest young defenders, has largely been a big hit.
• Victor Moses: Loan - Poor, again on loan, so we don't have to buy and commit big funds.
Rodgers needs to identify positions we need to strengthen and prioritise them more, but it's hardly a car crash of transfers, it's a mixture of youth, a few failed loans and the odd blip which every manager has. Sakho, Coutinho and Sturridge could be cornerstones of the team for years.
£95.2m spent
Success - £45.6m Sturridge, Coutinho, Mignolet, Sakho, Toure
Grey areas - £32.2m Allen, Assaidi, Yesil, Alberto, Ilori
Failures - £17.4 - Borini, Aspas, Sahin, Moses, Cissokho
In terms of out and out failures, that's two purchases in Borini and Aspas to the tune of 17.4m (plus three loans), Allen I think will come good, we will at least get over what we paid for Assaidi (and he's looking good for Stoke), Yesil (19), Alberto (21) and Illori (20) are hardly write offs yet, given their respective ages.
Success - £45.6m Sturridge, Coutinho, Mignolet, Sakho, Toure
Grey areas - £32.2m Allen, Assaidi, Yesil, Alberto, Ilori
Failures - £17.4 - Borini, Aspas, Sahin, Moses, Cissokho
In terms of out and out failures, that's two purchases in Borini and Aspas to the tune of 17.4m (plus three loans), Allen I think will come good, we will at least get over what we paid for Assaidi (and he's looking good for Stoke), Yesil (19), Alberto (21) and Illori (20) are hardly write offs yet, given their respective ages.
I'm glad people have decided those transfers were Rodgers deal and Rodgers alone? I presume he and he alone is responsible for the bids for costa, mikhitaryan, willian and salah too.
Back to the real world, Brendan and the scouts and the coaches put a list together of the sort of players they'd like and need, then that's given to Ayre and the owners and they go away and do their bit and try and see what they can get. And no doubt there is 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice etc for each of the positions.
I bet quite of a few of the players the club has signed were not Rodgers 1st choice, probably not his 2nd either, but the club didn't have the funds or tactical nous to get the players, or the players were not interested in coming, so we went for others.
I would guess that Sturridge, Coutinho, Mignolet, Sakho and Allen were first choice signings, maybe even Borini. And there's about a 50% success rate out of those, and the ones that were not first choice that we've signed, I'd expect us to get 50%+ of their transfer fees back.
Rodgers identifies players he wants, if the club can't get them, or gets alternatives.........
Back to the real world, Brendan and the scouts and the coaches put a list together of the sort of players they'd like and need, then that's given to Ayre and the owners and they go away and do their bit and try and see what they can get. And no doubt there is 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice etc for each of the positions.
I bet quite of a few of the players the club has signed were not Rodgers 1st choice, probably not his 2nd either, but the club didn't have the funds or tactical nous to get the players, or the players were not interested in coming, so we went for others.
I would guess that Sturridge, Coutinho, Mignolet, Sakho and Allen were first choice signings, maybe even Borini. And there's about a 50% success rate out of those, and the ones that were not first choice that we've signed, I'd expect us to get 50%+ of their transfer fees back.
Rodgers identifies players he wants, if the club can't get them, or gets alternatives.........
I'm not arsed who it's down to, we're just not very good at it. For a club with limited funds we aren't very savvy when it comes to transfers. We bought Borini for £10m, loan him out then buy the inferior Aspas for £7m. We sell Shelvey for £6m then buy a player of similar calibre, Alberto, for £8m. We buy Ilori for £7m when we've got a shed load of centre halves and then loan him out.
We take on Moses' wages when Sterling, Ibe or even Assaidi could do just as good a job. And don't get me started on the useless plank who played left back today. He should be paying us for getting a game.
Now we're doing it again. We don't need Salah, we need a top notch central midfielder and have done for fucking ages.
And I don't get the 'we send these kids on loan because they wouldn't get a chance here' argument. Yes they will get a chance, just like the shite like Moses, Aspas and Cissokho have.
We take on Moses' wages when Sterling, Ibe or even Assaidi could do just as good a job. And don't get me started on the useless plank who played left back today. He should be paying us for getting a game.
Now we're doing it again. We don't need Salah, we need a top notch central midfielder and have done for fucking ages.
And I don't get the 'we send these kids on loan because they wouldn't get a chance here' argument. Yes they will get a chance, just like the shite like Moses, Aspas and Cissokho have.
When Mr Rodgers took over we were shit, losing loads of games and fighting to be top 8.
After all of his transfer dealings over the last 18months we are 50m net down (although arguably 20 to 30m would have been saved in wages on Aquilani, Carroll, Maxi, Aurelio, Downing, Adam etc) and we are fighting for top 4 again and 3 weeks ago people were still talking title.
Whats the fucking problem?
If he signs players I think are questionable and we keep winning and competing then fuck it.
I get the concern of course, but weve practically halfed the squad age and cleared a fuckload of deadwood and cut the wage bill. All these things needed doing. And if Borini, Alberto, Aspas, Illori, Sakho etc come good then we have done a bang up job.
I wouldnt write anyone off yet. Its too early.
And he signed Sturridge for 8m quid so for all his failures or percieved failures to date including sell on value hes well in the fucking green given Coutinho and Sturridge would go for about 60m the pair.
Im happy so far. My biggest gripe is seeing Borini and Assaidi go out on loan and Aspas and Moses come in. Its nonsensical.
But only viewing retrospectively.
Mr Rodgers is a o fucking k with me.
The crazy top 4 challenging bastard.
After all of his transfer dealings over the last 18months we are 50m net down (although arguably 20 to 30m would have been saved in wages on Aquilani, Carroll, Maxi, Aurelio, Downing, Adam etc) and we are fighting for top 4 again and 3 weeks ago people were still talking title.
Whats the fucking problem?
If he signs players I think are questionable and we keep winning and competing then fuck it.
I get the concern of course, but weve practically halfed the squad age and cleared a fuckload of deadwood and cut the wage bill. All these things needed doing. And if Borini, Alberto, Aspas, Illori, Sakho etc come good then we have done a bang up job.
I wouldnt write anyone off yet. Its too early.
And he signed Sturridge for 8m quid so for all his failures or percieved failures to date including sell on value hes well in the fucking green given Coutinho and Sturridge would go for about 60m the pair.
Im happy so far. My biggest gripe is seeing Borini and Assaidi go out on loan and Aspas and Moses come in. Its nonsensical.
But only viewing retrospectively.
Mr Rodgers is a o fucking k with me.
The crazy top 4 challenging bastard.
agree with all that and priority of cm, but we need more attacking power, as we can't rely on current bench to provide alterantives.
I think it's Suarez that is the crazy top 4 challenging bastard. Not that Rodgers hasn't done some good things but take Suarez out of the side and we're back battling in mid-table.
Don't like a mere semantic like that change things though. A month ago we were top of the league after having aspirations of climbing up the league a few places to signify progress. Now it's all doom and fucking gloom again and people are posting the same old shite. "Rodgers hasn't done much after all..." oh, really. Remind me where we finished with Suarez last time? Oh. So adding Sturridge and Coutinho and co has helped us push above and beyond, but we can safely say that it's more or less solely down to Suarez still.
It's great being the level headed cynic'n'all, but you know..
I actually think Robinson would have gotten more games seeing that Enrique would be our only fit leftback. Robinson cant be any worse than Cissokho. Wisdom could provide cover at rightback while Johnson switched to leftback.
So Sahko, Sturridge, Coutinho, Ming and holding onto Suarez.
That's not the worst record and I still believe Allen will become a regular. His injuries haven't helped.
That's not the worst record and I still believe Allen will become a regular. His injuries haven't helped.
With hindsight Robinson may have got games because of Enrique's injury.
Same as Wisdom - and having them sit on the bench as opposed to playing every week would do no good.
And as I said, can get the credit where it's due.
Where we're lacking at the moment is creating a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts. That aim has partly been hampered by injury problems and partly by poor signings.
The concern is obviously what will happen if Suarez leaves in the summer. Sturridge is still a major talent that can win games on his own but we need the supporting cast to be doing more... more like what we saw at Spurs.
There's definitely cause for concern over some of his dealings and the logic of loaning out players currently not good enough and then paying further cash to replace them with players who currently aren't good enough.
He's doing a very good job overall and it feels harsh to be this picky - but when resources are as tight as ours, we really do have to be a lot smarter with our money. As it stands, Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho and the improvement of Henderson are covering up a lot of sins.
He's doing a very good job overall and it feels harsh to be this picky - but when resources are as tight as ours, we really do have to be a lot smarter with our money. As it stands, Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho and the improvement of Henderson are covering up a lot of sins.
Aspas served his purpose for the 6 games we didn't have Suarez. He had to try and spend a decent amount on someone because a youth player just wouldn't have cut it. No harm was done and it was probably always the intention to sell him again afterwards.
So you're not actually wasting 7m on him. The truth is 7m was probably all he had available in the budget, so he spent all of it to get the best replacement he could afford, and in the knowledge he'd recoup the 7m later.
So you're not actually wasting 7m on him. The truth is 7m was probably all he had available in the budget, so he spent all of it to get the best replacement he could afford, and in the knowledge he'd recoup the 7m later.
I am not sure if I agree with the argument that signings can be rated OK if their original or significant portion of their transfer price is recoupable. Of course it is better than the Aquilani or Caroll case where we lost a significant chunk but still it does not make the case where we can get back the original transfer fee an OK scenario. Every crap signing we make, we are missing the opportunity to improve the squad and the first team. Also the wages of players have become so significant that every wrong transfer, even a wrong loan signing can affect us financially. Aquilani will be an absolute shit signing even if some Seria A club paid us 20 million to take him back. Same with Aspas. If he continues to play the same way, he will be a shit signing irrespective of whether a La liga club pays us 2,3,5,7 million. What they cost us is far more valuable than the difference between purchase and sale price.
Not a criticism of Rodgers or Rafa, btw . This is a critique of the entire LFC scouting operation. I don’t think “gets rid of shit signings really fast” or “shit signings don’t cost that much” is a virtue. I know it is unrealistic to expect every signing to contribute significantly but we need to improve our scouting to the level where a majority of them contribute immediately or within a period of one or two years.
Oh I agree with you there. I was just saying Aspas was an exceptional case. We lost Suarez for 6 games. We're hardly going to replace him with a new long-term player over a poxy 6 game ban. But Rodgers still had a problem with what to do in those 6 games. He must have had 7 million spare change that he could afford to commit for a year, and spent that on getting Aspas.
Granted he is not a good player, but also 7m is about a fair price for him given his form at the time. We were better off doing the deal, rather than having 7 million sat doing nothing on our balance sheet and partnering Sturridge with Adam fucking Morgan for 6 games.
Once we sell him for 6 million or whatever in the summer, we can then use that to help get a player we genuinely want to have in the team.
A loan fee would be 1 million anyway, which is the same as we are going to lose on Aspas. So at least Aspas would feel like he was part of the team and try hard before we told him to "fuck off we were just trolling you idiot" in the summer.
Borini would have been better for us. But you would have made the same mistake, Borini looked shit for a season and was liable to get injured at any minute. Aspas was playing well and had more experience.
What's annoying is that no-one he has bought for that wide forward slot has worked.
Coutinho does ok there but I'm not convinced wide in a front 3 gets the best of him.
Borini, Aspas and Assaidi haven't cut it. Thats 0 out of 3 chances which is too shit a ratio to accept. Worryingly Borini was hand picked by Rodgers only to be dumped although I suppose he's been a bit no icky with injuries. That said, he never really showed much promise. Maybe the loan will benefit him but he'll never be a world beater.
Coutinho does ok there but I'm not convinced wide in a front 3 gets the best of him.
Borini, Aspas and Assaidi haven't cut it. Thats 0 out of 3 chances which is too shit a ratio to accept. Worryingly Borini was hand picked by Rodgers only to be dumped although I suppose he's been a bit no icky with injuries. That said, he never really showed much promise. Maybe the loan will benefit him but he'll never be a world beater.
I agree it was a tricky situation. In fact I really like the profile of signings which have been targeted by our scouting team/manager in the last two years. Just to add to Rafiagra's post in terms of attacking players we have bought - Aspas, Borini, Assaidi, Alberto, Coutinho, Sturridge. In fact I thought all of them where reasonable signings with acceptable risks. However as Rafiagra pointed out we really do need a higher success ratio there irrespective of the cost to regularly qualify and play in the Champions League.
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