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Rafa's end of term report

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I'm going to buck the trend and say that Rebel has a perfectly logical point, a point that everyone obstinately wants to ignore.


Yes we want to win the league, but if someone like manu invests more than us, with an already better squad than us (and, as numerous wankpots are delighted to point out), with the greatest leader of men since Hannibal, have we any right to expect to win the league? That seems perfectly reasonable as an argument, yet people are responding as if Rebel is posting after ingesting several hundred magic mushrooms with LSD chasers.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33774.msg876067#msg876067 date=1243379882]
I'm going to buck the trend and say that Rebel has a perfectly logical point, a point that everyone obstinately wants to ignore.


Yes we want to win the league, but if someone like manu invests more than us, with an already better squad than us (and, as numerous wankpots are delighted to point out), with the greatest leader of men since Hannibal, have we any right to expect to win the league? That seems perfectly reasonable as an argument, yet people are responding as if Rebel is posting after ingesting several hundred magic mushrooms with LSD chasers.
[/quote]

I was going to post something similar. He has a valid point, although it was very badly made.

Putting exact criteria over a five year period in the future would be a little silly. You just have to deal with the results once they're done. Although at the same time it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect, as much as you can, a league title in the next few years, but if we don't and we've picked up a few cups and gotten close and unlucky in the league it shouldn't necessarily mean he should lose his job. Anyway back to this years report....
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=33774.msg875998#msg875998 date=1243372712]
Why oh why didn't I follow my own advice and leave Rebel to argue away with himself in his own warped world!
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I blame Brendan, personally.

Had he been here sooner the car-crash would have ended on page 3.

The reason why some posters are talking like this is because they've always associated Liverpool FC with mediocrity.

They see us exactly as the Mancs see us.

A Cup team which can occasionally win some big games and a trophy every few years, but will always, ALWAYS fall short of the League title.

The posters who disagree with this are those who remember who we used to be, and who we CAN be again.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33774.msg875875#msg875875 date=1243367413]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=33774.msg875865#msg875865 date=1243367117]
as far as im concerned as long as Benitez is qualifying for the CL relatively easily like he is then I could care less if we win the league or not, it would be nice but to expect/demand it is silly and unrealistic for example as spider says one loss at old trafford next season could kill the dream. can we do it? absolutely but the margins are thin at the top.

I'm happy with the current level of the team and all that matters is qualifying for the CL to keep the bandwagon rolling

therefore, I give him an A.


[/quote]


So would you be happy with just another 5 years of CL football, but no trophies rebel?
[/quote]

No worries,PM.

No one's going to associate you with Rebel.

A one-man asylum, that one.

Having said that, your 'Parry bought Dossena' hypothesis is a bit mental.
 
100 out of 100.

We were unlucky IMO not to finish above a far superior squad. IMO Rafa got more out Liverpool this season than Fergie did out of man U. The fact that they hadn't romped away clear afetr winning 24 out of there last 26 games says everything about just how well Rafa got the boys playing.
 
I am happy to be narrowly missing out on trophies but qualifying for the CL, yes of course. the only other position is to say: we must win trophies or Benitez faces the sack, which is absurd and takes nothing else into account

If Benitez doesn't win a trophy within the next two or three seasons, I don't care how fucking close we get, or how many times we qualify for the CL, he will get the sack, and deservedly so.

So shut the fuck up, Headwand.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=33774.msg876187#msg876187 date=1243411430]
I am happy to be narrowly missing out on trophies but qualifying for the CL, yes of course. the only other position is to say: we must win trophies or Benitez faces the sack, which is absurd and takes nothing else into account

If Benitez doesn't win a trophy within the next two or three seasons, I don't care how fucking close we get, or how many times we qualify for the CL, he will get the sack, and deservedly so.

[/quote]

that is no way cut and dried. if we finished three seasons in a row as runners up (missing out by a few points) with no cups I don't think its automatic to assume rafa would get sacked. people would WANT him sacked but who knows what the owners see as a reasonable return on their investment? when was the last time hicks or gilletts team won something?
 
So if we win the FA cup , league cup and charity shield every season then everyone is happy? Rediculous.

It's not all about 'trophies' it's all about the 'right trophies'. We need to be putting in a consistent challenge for the league and champions league. And this season we did.

I couldn't give two fucks about all the other mickey mouse cups.
 
the bottom line is every season I want a genuine league challenge (i.e. in the race till may) and progress.
if we do that every season, improve on our points total eventually we will win the league unless we continually short securing over 90 points which I can't see somehow.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33774.msg876278#msg876278 date=1243418392]
the bottom line is every season I want a genuine league challenge (i.e. in the race till may) and progress.
if we do that every season, improve on our points total eventually we will win the league unless we continually short securing over 90 points which I can't see somehow.
[/quote]

Well what we did this season would usually win us the league most every other season, so we can't complain. Do the same or win one game more next season - and it's in the bag.
 
[quote author=Mors link=topic=33774.msg876286#msg876286 date=1243418727]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33774.msg876278#msg876278 date=1243418392]
the bottom line is every season I want a genuine league challenge (i.e. in the race till may) and progress.
if we do that every season, improve on our points total eventually we will win the league unless we continually short securing over 90 points which I can't see somehow.
[/quote]

Well what we did this season would usually win us the league most every other season, so we can't complain. Do the same or win one game more next season - and it's in the bag.
[/quote]

I'm talking progress from this season onwards, so next season 86+ points and so on.
 
I agree a lot with what Rebel is saying here but he hasn't expressed it very well. I expect Liverpool supporters to expect trophies as that is why we exist but I do also want a board that makes decisions based on a lot more than whether we won a trophiy or not as we would soon head down the path of Spurs or Newcastle.

If the players are behind the manager and we are competitive in this league and the CL as we are now, we cannot expect much more than that on a consistent basis until the Stadium is complete.
 
We as fans should expect to win trophies now.

I think the calls for Rafa to be sacked over the last few years have been crazy in the extreme, as it was clear that he was taking us forward and trying to build a squad to match our rivals.

We've now got the squad (which includes some of the best players in world football i might add), so the time has come to deliver us somemore silverware. If he fails to do so over the next 2 seasons with this group of players, then it would be fair to assume that Rafa isn't as good as the vast majority of us think he is.

Don't worry though, we're going to win the league next season, and this debate will be all forgotton about.
 
Rafa and Liverpool is one of the few things that I cannot make my mind up on. Over the past two years I've changed my mind several times. There have been times when I was ready to see him gone, namely last season after the Reading away game, when we lost 3-1, and he took Gerrard and Torres off with 20minutes to go. At the time that game cemented the fact that Rafa was learning nothing, and instead was making the same mistakes with rotations and playing players out of position. However, the end of last season it finally clicked. The long awaited 4231 working. Gerrard in a free central role, with Torres up top and the perfect pairing of Mascherano to break down oppositions play and Alonso to retain and distribute. I was convinced that that was it. Set on formation, and knowing the best positions of our best players.

I was confident at the end last season. The summer destroyed that. Wanting to sell a player that I thought was key to make that formation work and sign one that didn't fit.

Beyond Rafa's control things seemed to work themselves out. Within a few months of the start of the season we were back to playing 4231 with the players we'd used at the end of last season. But it seemed accidental. Rafa had ended up keeping a player that he wanted out, and getting rid of the one he did sign within months of signing him. So I find myself in the same position as last summer. We finished the season playing in exactly the that I wanted to see. But summer dealing could throw that off again. Is this the formation he's now settled on? Or, like last year, was it just to see him through to the summer when he could buy and sell again? I'm never sure with Rafa whether he's learnt the lessons of his trials and errors.

Of course, we've made progress in the league. I don't mind to sound negative about that, like others have said a challenge is all many of us would have asked for at the start of the summer. But I don't feel the same confidence in Rafa that others do, I fear he'll mess too much with the things that worked this season and set us back again. I am reassured by the high points tally and lack of defeats, but unlike some, I don't feel the same joy and reason for celebration. It amounts to nothing, so what's the point? Like I say, I don't mean to be negative, but in terms of cold hard reality, it amounts to nothing. No trophies. I'd rather we achieved a fraction of those points and it was more than anyone else. Winning is only winning when you beat everyone else, not your own records.

That said, I've really enjoyed watching is play this season. We've developed a style. The kind that we all hoped for when Rafa arrived, the kind of slick movement and passing that we saw from Rafa's Valencia.

When I think about the league next season, I believe we'll win it, but my reasons are completely illogical and purely emotional with no reasoning, I feel we're going to win it, just because I think it's meant to be.

I realise I haven't answered the question. That's because I can't, I don't know where I stand on Rafa, I don't know how many of the things that happened this season where part of his 'Big Plan' and how many have been forced as consequences of things that didn't work out. And perhaps most importantly, I don't know what he'll do next year.
 
No Rafa4pm, it doesn't. It means stick with the formation and players in positions that work.

But don't let that stop you from silly posts and ignoring the point.
 
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