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Pre Match: Everton (H)

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Brizzle

Brizzle

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Fuck it, we lost to PSG. We are still in that tournament and should think about that one in 3 games time, otherwise we'll find ourselves out of this one with our next three games being Everton, Burnley (A) and Bournemouth (A).

Whilst I rate Hendo, i am not disappointed in his suspension as it means we can't possibly field the same midfield trio.

I'd like to see:

---------------Alisson--------------
TAA---Gomez--VVD---Robbo
--------------Fabinho------------- I would fancy Fabs to be ok against Siggurdsson at AM
---------Milner----Shaqiri--------- I wouldn't be against seeing Keita get a start.
Salah-------Firmino-----Mane---

This game will need high pressing on the likes of Gueye and Gomes to completely nullify their attack who can't effectively play long ball (unless they bring on Tosun).

Everton started the season brightly but have been poor recently - i'm confident we can put Wednesday behind us and get straight back on track in the PL. Huge game.
 
Dahuge said:
I think we need to see Keita's dynamism against the blue shite - someone to press and harry a bit more than Fabinho.
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I see the two roles of Milner and Shaq as the pressers, and Fabinho the person giving them stability to do so. As mentioned I wouldn't be against Keita starting, but with Milner being the only person to really perform against PSG i'd be reluctant to drop him.

I agree about the need for dynamism, but will we get even a glimpse of heavy metal football this weekend?

Hopefully a later kick off means a cracking atmosphere.
 
Brizzle said:
Fuck it, we lost to PSG. We are still in that tournament and should think about that one in 3 games time, otherwise we'll find ourselves out of this one with our next three games being Everton, Burnley (A) and Bournemouth (A).

Whilst I rate Hendo, i am not disappointed in his suspension as it means we can't possibly field the same midfield trio.

I'd like to see:

---------------Alisson--------------
TAA---Gomez--VVD---Robbo
--------------Fabinho------------- I would fancy Fabs to be ok against Siggurdsson at AM
---------Milner----Shaqiri--------- I wouldn't be against seeing Keita get a start.
Salah-------Firmino-----Mane---

This game will need high pressing on the likes of Gueye and Gomes to completely nullify their attack who can't effectively play long ball (unless they bring on Tosun).

Everton started the season brightly but have been poor recently - i'm confident we can put Wednesday behind us and get straight back on track in the PL. Huge game.
Click to expand...

They've won four out of their last 6 games and only lost one.
 
As much as I'd like to see Fabinho in the team (with the caveat of him playing well) I don't know whether we need to play with two holding midfielders to accomodate him at the moment. So if he's there, does that mean Gini sits deep alongside him and we play Milner further ahead?
 
I'm quite upset that I can't really pick a side without changing my mind twice and not being happy with at least three of the starting players.

Alisson

TAA-----Gomez------VVD-------Robbo

Shaqiri------Wijnaldum-------Milner

Salah--------Firmino----------Mane

I'd probably go with that, although Milner is the only certain starter for me in that midfield. I wouldn't be too upset to see Fabinho start, as while there's always the chat about the "hurly burly" frenetic nature of the derby, Silva doesn't play like that, and their key midfield players Gomes and Sigurdsson are not going to be ploughing into our players, and they can't run past them either, so Fabinho's slightly lumbering style won't be exposed as it would be against quick, agile players.

Keita? Well, he's done nothing, and looked terrified and clueless in what little game time he's had, so that would be a bigger risk for me.

The attack is also a problem, with Salah being nowhere near as dangerous and unplayable as he was last season, and Firmino's been largely dogshit, but unless we move Shaq further forward, there's no other viable starting options.
 
Best Believe It said:
As much as I'd like to see Fabinho in the team (with the caveat of him playing well) I don't know whether we need to play with two holding midfielders to accomodate him at the moment. So if he's there, does that mean Gini sits deep alongside him and we play Milner further ahead?
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Klopp only trusts him with a sitting player like Wijnaldum right next to him in a 4-2-3-1, so yeah.
 
manwithnoname said:
The attack is also a problem, with Salah being nowhere near as dangerous and unplayable as he was last season, and Firmino's been largely dogshit, but unless we move Shaq further forward, there's no other viable starting options.
Click to expand...

Not to absolve them of any criticism, but I think, first few games aside, our midfield has been significantly worse than last season and this is having an impact on the front three. Firmino is having to come deeper, Mane and Salah are having to create everything themselves, unless the full backs are supplying crosses/passes. Chamberlain used to create space by his running, as did Coutinho, and no-one is doing that now. Shaqiri does it a little but he's a different sort of player really. I think fixing the midfield would massively help the front three, but as you and a number of others have pointed out, Keita and Fabinho have not showed form that would give you confidence the baton could be passed to them.
 
Best Believe It said:
Not to absolve them of any criticism, but I think, first few games aside, our midfield has been significantly worse than last season and this is having an impact on the front three. Firmino is having to come deeper, Mane and Salah are having to create everything themselves, unless the full backs are supplying crosses/passes. Chamberlain used to create space by his running, as did Coutinho, and no-one is doing that now. Shaqiri does it a little but he's a different sort of player really. I think fixing the midfield would massively help the front three, but as you and a number of others have pointed out, Keita and Fabinho have not showed form that would give you confidence the baton could be passed to them.
Click to expand...

Oh certainly I'm not absolving anyone of blame really. It's a collective issue.

It really does hammer home why everyone wanted us to sign a new attacking player who could do exactly that job, and Klopp knew it too, but sadly for whatever reasons the Fekir deal didn't happen. I wonder if that will be resurrected, or if we will look to spend big on an AM and a new striker in summer?

I think that's the plan, but I also think Klopp thought his defence and central midfield would be sorted and not require any investment in the next couple of years, and it looks like we'll need another CM aswell, given how fucked this summer's investment looks.

Klopp wanted a new DM, CM and AM, arguable that should have been Fabinho, Keita and Fekir in his remodelled team, but that's fucked.
 
manwithnoname said:
I'm quite upset that I can't really pick a side without changing my mind twice and not being happy with at least three of the starting players.

Alisson

TAA-----Gomez------VVD-------Robbo

Shaqiri------Wijnaldum-------Milner

Salah--------Firmino----------Mane

I'd probably go with that, although Milner is the only certain starter for me in that midfield. I wouldn't be too upset to see Fabinho start, as while there's always the chat about the "hurly burly" frenetic nature of the derby, Silva doesn't play like that, and their key midfield players Gomes and Sigurdsson are not going to be ploughing into our players, and they can't run past them either, so Fabinho's slightly lumbering style won't be exposed as it would be against quick, agile players.

Keita? Well, he's done nothing, and looked terrified and clueless in what little game time he's had, so that would be a bigger risk for me.

The attack is also a problem, with Salah being nowhere near as dangerous and unplayable as he was last season, and Firmino's been largely dogshit, but unless we move Shaq further forward, there's no other viable starting options.
Click to expand...

Agree with this - I think Milner and Shaqiri have to start this one so it's basically between Wijnaldum and Fabinho for me. I'd prefer Wijnaldum, we're at home and I don't know if Fabinho is ready to start the derby. I also think he's a bit shit, but you could easily make a case for Wijnaldum as well there so I wouldn't be too bothered with either of them starting
 
Best Believe It said:
Not to absolve them of any criticism, but I think, first few games aside, our midfield has been significantly worse than last season and this is having an impact on the front three. Firmino is having to come deeper, Mane and Salah are having to create everything themselves, unless the full backs are supplying crosses/passes. Chamberlain used to create space by his running, as did Coutinho, and no-one is doing that now. Shaqiri does it a little but he's a different sort of player really. I think fixing the midfield would massively help the front three, but as you and a number of others have pointed out, Keita and Fabinho have not showed form that would give you confidence the baton could be passed to them.
Click to expand...
I'm not at all sure about this 'not shown form'. They've hardly played between Klopp saying they need time to adjust to our style and minor injuries or lack of fitness. Give them a run in the team (easier said than done but the next three games are a good start) then judge if they've settled in (and not only them but the players around them getting on the same wavelength). They are both going to be excellent in time.
 
manwithnoname said:
Oh certainly I'm not absolving anyone of blame really. It's a collective issue.

It really does hammer home why everyone wanted us to sign a new attacking player who could do exactly that job, and Klopp knew it too, but sadly for whatever reasons the Fekir deal didn't happen. I wonder if that will be resurrected, or if we will look to spend big on an AM and a new striker in summer?

I think that's the plan, but I also think Klopp thought his defence and central midfield would be sorted and not require any investment in the next couple of years, and it looks like we'll need another CM aswell, given how fucked this summer's investment looks.

Klopp wanted a new DM, CM and AM, arguable that should have been Fabinho, Keita and Fekir in his remodelled team, but that's fucked.
Click to expand...
Knees through the ceiling after ⅓ season in which they've hardly played.
 
Frogfish said:
I'm not at all sure about this 'not shown form'. They've hardly played between Klopp saying they need time to adjust to our style and minor injuries or lack of fitness. Give them a run in the team (easier said than done but the next three games are a good start) then judge if they've settled in (and not only them but the players around them getting on the same wavelength). They are both going to be excellent in time.
Click to expand...

Not shown form that would give you confidence they are at a point where we can rely on them game after game. I don't have a view on whether or not they will be excellent but I don't doubt their pedigree and agree they should be given a run in the side. That said, what I've seen so far doesn't automatically fill me with confidence. I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion to have.
 
Does anyone really see Firmino reaching the heights again of last season? His performance has dropped and the goals too, he hadn't scored big in England until last season either, so we're more or less relying (hoping) Salah AND Bobby regain previous form. I'd be surprised if either do on current evidence. I certainly don't see either of them scoring as many as they did last season, again.
 
mark1975 said:
Does anyone really see Firmino reaching the heights again of last season? His performance has dropped and the goals too, he hadn't scored big in England until last season either, so we're more or less relying (hoping) Salah AND Bobby regain previous form. I'd be surprised if either do on current evidence. I certainly don't see either of them scoring as many as they did last season, again.
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We have changed our style of play so it's more than a little unreasonable to expect them to hit those heights again. That said Salah, even without looking on form, is still amongst the PL's top scorers with Mane not far behind.
Conceding far fewer but as a consequence scoring quite a few less is where we are at. Results are all that matters in the end and so far the change in tactics seems to be greatly beneficial in terms of PL results but distinctly lacking against continental opposition in the CL.
 
Modo said:
On a positive note Lallana is fit again.
Click to expand...
KP2iTvQ.gif
 
manwithnoname said:
Oh certainly I'm not absolving anyone of blame really. It's a collective issue.

It really does hammer home why everyone wanted us to sign a new attacking player who could do exactly that job, and Klopp knew it too, but sadly for whatever reasons the Fekir deal didn't happen. I wonder if that will be resurrected, or if we will look to spend big on an AM and a new striker in summer?

I think that's the plan, but I also think Klopp thought his defence and central midfield would be sorted and not require any investment in the next couple of years, and it looks like we'll need another CM aswell, given how fucked this summer's investment looks.

Klopp wanted a new DM, CM and AM, arguable that should have been Fabinho, Keita and Fekir in his remodelled team, but that's fucked.
Click to expand...

It seems very premature to me to write off Fabinho and Keita.
 
All I know is a mate of a mate has been doing my fucking head in for tickets for this, and because I'm a fucking prick I've been doing everything to get them a pair, and so I finally sorted one face value at 3pm today, and was basically told I was a fucking shitbag for not getting them by yesterday because they've cancelled their hotels and wasted their dreams and whatever else.

I'm just venting here. Fucked off. Delighted that this pair of tickets have been given to my pair of sons and not a pair of cunts from Leicester. If I hadn't been trying so hard there's no way on Earth they'd have got in

I need to reprioritise my shit.
 
manwithnoname said:
Oh certainly I'm not absolving anyone of blame really. It's a collective issue.

It really does hammer home why everyone wanted us to sign a new attacking player who could do exactly that job, and Klopp knew it too, but sadly for whatever reasons the Fekir deal didn't happen. I wonder if that will be resurrected, or if we will look to spend big on an AM and a new striker in summer?

I think that's the plan, but I also think Klopp thought his defence and central midfield would be sorted and not require any investment in the next couple of years, and it looks like we'll need another CM aswell, given how fucked this summer's investment looks.

Klopp wanted a new DM, CM and AM, arguable that should have been Fabinho, Keita and Fekir in his remodelled team, but that's fucked.
Click to expand...

Fekir would have been nice to have in light of Firmino's recent poor form – but I don't think he would have solved the problem in midfield. He's more of a crafty technical wizard and finisher than an Oxlade-Chamberlain or someone like that who can provide dynamism and connection between midfield and the attack. Klopp actually needs either Ox or Lallana of 2 years ago – someone who can lead the press in midfield, create and contribute with key goals.

We seem to be leaderless in attack, players are trying various things and sometimes it works and sometimes doesn't, but nobody seems to set the tempo and the style of play in the same way Van Dijk sets the tone at the back. Lallana and Ox were never our best players, but they led by example and made teammates around them better. With the possible exception of Milner (who can't play every game), for all their great qualities none of our current first-choice attackers seem capable of that.
 
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Woland said:
All I know is a mate of a mate has been doing my fucking head in for tickets for this, and because I'm a fucking prick I've been doing everything to get them a pair, and so I finally sorted one face value at 3pm today, and was basically told I was a fucking shitbag for not getting them by yesterday because they've cancelled their hotels and wasted their dreams and whatever else.

I'm just venting here. Fucked off. Delighted that this pair of tickets have been given to my pair of sons and not a pair of cunts from Leicester. If I hadn't been trying so hard there's no way on Earth they'd have got in

I need to reprioritise my shit.
Click to expand...
Sorry Mark. I just woke up.
 
rurikbird said:
Fekir would have been nice to have in light of Firmino's recent poor form – but I don't think he would have solved the problem in midfield. He's more of a crafty technical wizard and finisher than an Oxlade-Chamberlain or someone like that who can provide dynamism and connection between midfield and the attack. Klopp actually needs either Ox or Lallana of 2 years ago – someone who can lead the press in midfield, create and contribute with key goals.

We seem to be leaderless in attack, players are trying various things and sometimes it works and sometimes doesn't, but nobody seems to set the tempo and the style of play in the same way Van Dijk sets the tone at the back. Lallana and Ox were never our best players, but they led by example and made teammates around them better. With the possible exception of Milner (who can't play every game), for all their great qualities none of our current first-choice attackers seem capable of that.
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Personally I disagree. Fekir seems a perfect fit for our team and what we are lacking. With Coutinho we had a player that could regularly go past the opposition and create chaos and space, Fekir can do that, Milner, Hendo and Gini (the latter on rare occasions) can't. Keita can - more time needs to be spent acclimatising him to the team and finding his best position within the team (possibly with two behind him, e.g. Fabs and Gini) giving him the freedom to attempt his dribbles and tricks (for which he had outstanding stats in the BL) but which seem to be tempered here, maybe at Klopp's insistence in maintaining shape.
 
Frogfish said:
Personally I disagree. Fekir seems a perfect fit for our team and what we are lacking. With Coutinho we had a player that could regularly go past the opposition and create chaos and space, Fekir can do that, Milner, Hendo and Gini (the latter on rare occasions) can't. Keita can - more time needs to be spent acclimatising him to the team and finding his best position within the team (possibly with two behind him, e.g. Fabs and Gini) giving him the freedom to attempt his dribbles and tricks (for which he had outstanding stats in the BL) but which seem to be tempered here, maybe at Klopp's insistence in maintaining shape.
Click to expand...

Well, Fekir isn't a #8 and those (including pundits) who place him there in our formation are wrong IMHO. He's more of a last pass or last touch guy and he can be very clinical and creative – but what I'm talking about is somebody who can drive forward from midfield the way Ox especially did last season, not necessarily scoring and assisting all that often himself, but creating a sense of danger and opportunities for teammates. Milner can do it in some games, but he can't be an answer to every question. Keita has all the tools to do it, but something is not quite right psychologically yet. Shaqiri can do it, but requires a change of formation because he's more AM than #8 (like Fekir). Lallana used to be able to do it, but might not anymore. Those are our options for now.
 
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For this game, I think 4-2-3-1 is on the cards, both because Hendo cannot play and Fabinho is still more comfortable in a double-pivot and also this would allow us to bring back Shaqiri, who has been our best inventor and creator in the last few games. This would mean there is no place for Milner, which is strange as he seems like the ultimate "derby player," but I think other considerations should win out. Everton will defend deep until they concede and I think we'll need 4 attacking players to put them under pressure.

Defensively, the biggest challenge will be keeping an eye on Walcott's runs in behind on our left. Robertson will have to stay back more than usual and Van Dijk (and Alisson) will have to be extra alert. The likes of Andre Gomes and Sigurdsson certainly have the quality to play a well-weighted pass in behind. This will be an interesting game between two teams with similar styles.

4-2-3-1:
----------------Alisson-------------------
Trent---Gomez---Van Dijk---Robbo
----------Fabinho-------Gini-----------
Shaq---------Firmino-----------Mane
-----------------Salah--------------------

Subs: Mignolet, Lovren, Matip, Keita, Milner, Lallana, Sturridge
 
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Shaq was the replacement purchase for Fekir isn't it? We would not buy both of them. So are we saying after seeing Shaq play we still want Fekir? I think Shaq has been a bright spot this season. A good purchase with all things considered.

Bobby has been the most disappointing for me so far. But he has been asked to play in a number of roles so who knows if that screwed with his head/performance a little.

Fab looks like he will come good. Keita looks nothing like the player at Salzburg. Let's hope they both come good by 2019 and we make a good push for top spot in the championship.
 
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