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Manager Paul Ince leaves Notts County

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[quote author=Modo link=topic=44805.msg1309971#msg1309971 date=1301905136]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44805.msg1309968#msg1309968 date=1301904997]
What about encouraging asians?

England has a large asian community, very few asian players and I'd imagine no managers.
[/quote]

TBF there's barely any asians footballers in the top divisions except Chopra.
Or Zesh Rehman.
[/quote]

So do they need to be encouraged to play football?
 
Good shout. Chris Hughton got Newcastle back to the premiership and was treated like dirt by the Newcastle board.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44805.msg1310002#msg1310002 date=1301906888]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44805.msg1309971#msg1309971 date=1301905136]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=44805.msg1309968#msg1309968 date=1301904997]
What about encouraging asians?

England has a large asian community, very few asian players and I'd imagine no managers.
[/quote]

TBF there's barely any asians footballers in the top divisions except Chopra.
Or Zesh Rehman.
[/quote]

So do they need to be encouraged to play football?
[/quote]

I have no idea, I've asked the same question before and the answer I seem to get is that the asian community in England don't rate football. But hey I live in the land of the blue-eyed blonds so, fuck do I know.
 
It was more of a general question rather than one directed specifically at you.

The article says black managerial candidates should be encouraged. It seems a bit of an odd thing to say.

Does the lack of proportional representation always mean something is wrong - that opportunities aren't being opened up due to unfair reasons / circumstances?
 
It does seem to be a bit of a closed shop at times though (not obviously just with regards to this race debate) , i mean we see the same old managers time and again getting sacked and then walking straight back into another job.

I can't help but think that there must be better options other than the likes of Megson and Laws.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=44805.msg1310013#msg1310013 date=1301908946 i mean we see the same old managers time and again getting sacked and then walking straight back into another job.

I can't help but think that there must be better options other than the likes of Megson and Laws.
[/quote]

I agree with that. Quite odd.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=44805.msg1309999#msg1309999 date=1301906594]
The problem in England, regardless of skin colour, is that becoming a footballer is practically restricted to those who forgo education. How many English internationals hold a third level degree?

It's rare that you get someone with the mental ability for management without a half decent education.
[/quote]

That's a good question, really.

I remember Heighway studied Economics at Warwick; and Josemi was a lawyer (but he's shit and Spanish).

Who else?
 
It's a good point Ross but lack of formal education doesn't mean people cannot be intelligent and have some common sense.
 
Ardiles has a Law Degree, I believe.

And there's that really ugly bastard, whose name escapes me, studied Chemical Engineering, or something.

Howie ?
 
Ince getting the boot has nothing to do with racial discrimination. Football is a results business and he didn't get the results. Maybe he is not as good as he thinks he is in his own mind.

Houghton at Newcastle is another case being mentioned but look at Newcastle's history with managers regardless of colour. They generally treat their managers like shite.
 
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=44805.msg1310013#msg1310013 date=1301908946]
It does seem to be a bit of a closed shop at times though (not obviously just with regards to this race debate) , i mean we see the same old managers time and again getting sacked and then walking straight back into another job.

I can't help but think that there must be better options other than the likes of Megson and Laws.
[/quote]
I agree with this, there does seem to be an old boys club where the same old faces keep on getting jobs even though their records aren't exactly the best. Ron Atkinson is an example.

I also think that the ex-professional players who become managers are too keen on getting a job in the premier league and they don't gather enough experience in the lower leagues first. Just because someone was a success on the pitch doesn't mean they will become a sensation on the side lines. They need to get a shit load more experience before taking over at a premier league side. I also think that clubs will give a managerial position to an ex-professional player before they would give it to someone who didn't play, even though there are examples of people who either didn't play professionally or did but weren't any good at it.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=44805.msg1310019#msg1310019 date=1301910614]
It's a good point Ross but lack of formal education doesn't mean people cannot be intelligent and have some common sense.
[/quote]

Certainly not. Plenty of my relatives have little formal education but have successful businesses. There will always be exceptions.

I just think odds of being a successful manager increase if you've got a bit more upstairs. So by and large English internationals have less of a chance of being good managers because they sacrificed so much to become England players.
 
I hate this argument. It pains me.
The deal AS ALWAYS is that a club will pick whoever they think is the best person to manage their expectations.
If Notts County advertise thier job and the applicants are
Robbie Savage
Paul Hart
and
Jean Tigana,
Then Jean Tigana will get the job, the fact is te same old tired merry go round motherfuckers will apply and they will get the job.
What it takes is for black players leaving the game to want to go into management, and im not convinced that is the case.
Me thinking Nicolas Anelka could be a good manager or David James or whoever os irrelevant if they arent interested in the job.
Football is no different to any job in that the candidates who succeed are always either promoted from within OR have experience (or on rare occassions are marquee names) it often doesnt matter what you have on paper to suggest you are the right fit.
I think someone has a tub to thump at the FA or PFA and it pisses me off. Manufactured discrimination leads to boy who cried wolf levels on actual discrimination.
Sheesh.
 
Couldn't agree more. Such nonsense must do more harm to the cause of anti-discrimination than almost anything else.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=44805.msg1310020#msg1310020 date=1301910735]
Ardiles has a Law Degree, I believe.

And there's that really ugly bastard, whose name escapes me, studied Chemical Engineering, or something.

Howie ?
[/quote]

Iain Dowie.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=44805.msg1310046#msg1310046 date=1301913483]
I think someone has a tub to thump at the FA or PFA and it pisses me off. Manufactured discrimination leads to boy who cried wolf levels on actual discrimination.
Sheesh.
[/quote]

You've just put Chumbawumba into my head. Thanks.
 
I'm sorry but I do actually think that it is beyond doubt that there is a a fairly monumental amount of discrimination going on, whether overtly or not, conciously or not, on the appointment of black managers. Why I do not know, it might be the clubs it might be the black ex players not applying because they think they will suffer from the discrimination etc etc ....

What is truly needed is a black manager to really succeed at a club over an extended period of time, preferably at a big club, to shatter any lingering prejudices and provide encouragement to black footballers generally.

I hope that happens.

Until it does so I think that legislation such as they have in the NFL where teams are obliged by law to interview minority candidates may well be necessary.
 
i don't think there is any discrimination, if there aren't many black people doing the course then there aren't going to be a lot of black managers. Off the top of my head i could name maybe 2/3 black english managers. The opportunites aren't just going to arise within the top levels fo english football (and by this i mean down to league 1) as theres too much finance at stake to try someone unproven. In the prem you can get away with it if you're a top club, or dont' fancy shelling out on a manager and promote from within.

If you're good enough you'll get the job, but sadly there aren't many black english managers good enough
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44805.msg1310410#msg1310410 date=1301991811]
i don't think there is any discrimination, if there aren't many black people doing the course then there aren't going to be a lot of black managers. Off the top of my head i could name maybe 2/3 black english managers. The opportunites aren't just going to arise within the top levels fo english football (and by this i mean down to league 1) as theres too much finance at stake to try someone unproven. In the prem you can get away with it if you're a top club, or dont' fancy shelling out on a manager and promote from within.

If you're good enough you'll get the job, but sadly there aren't many black english managers good enough
[/quote]

It would be nice to think it was that simple Fabio and i do agree there is a shortage of jobs and its big business but new white managers appear all the time so why not new black managers? Its unusual that in a sport where perhaps 30% of the players are from minority groups you only have 1 or 2 out of 92 managers.

Now Rio Ferdinand may be thick as muck and he definitely has a hair lip but other black players MUST have something to offer, something is going wrong and i think it would be for the good for the sport and society as a whole if there were more. just my opinion like, i understand other think differently.
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44805.msg1309855#msg1309855 date=1301863180]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44805.msg1309853#msg1309853 date=1301862846]
i don't see how the last part is relevant to the story. in my mind that bit kind of deserves expansion. How will they hope to interview more black managers? IF they aren't considered good enough they won't get the interview. Race (hopefully) doesn't come in to it
[/quote]

Isn't it a bit weird though that someone like Keane keeps getting job offers despite failing time and time again.

[/quote]

He's only had two jobs. He failed at Ipswich, but he didn't fail at Suderland....he just bottled it.
 
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=44805.msg1310490#msg1310490 date=1301998141]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=44805.msg1309855#msg1309855 date=1301863180]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=44805.msg1309853#msg1309853 date=1301862846]
i don't see how the last part is relevant to the story. in my mind that bit kind of deserves expansion. How will they hope to interview more black managers? IF they aren't considered good enough they won't get the interview. Race (hopefully) doesn't come in to it
[/quote]

Isn't it a bit weird though that someone like Keane keeps getting job offers despite failing time and time again.

[/quote]

He's only had two jobs. He failed at Ipswich, but he didn't fail at Suderland....he just bottled it.
[/quote]Dont stick up for him man. He fucked yous in 2002.
 
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