Man Utd to appoint Mourinho

[peekay]

Before 2010, he was in charge of teams whose squad where exceptionally better than the rest of the competition. At Inter and Chelsea it was driven by the owners investment and from what I have read at Porto it was due to some astute purchases by Mourinho. When he has a squad which is significantly better than the competition he pretty much guarantees the league. That is not a criticism by the way. Even with an above average squad, not a lot of managers who deliver at the rate he does.

Post 2010, he still had an expensive squad at Madrid and Chelsea but those squads had competition. City, Arsenal, and United had started to spend at Chelsea level. In the La Liga he was up against one of the greatest club teams ever. He still managed to win twice which is decent but not the prodigious return he managed pre 2010.

I dont think his abilities as a manager has diminished. I think his rate of return in terms of league win is more to do with the relative strength of the squad with respect to the competition. He still plays the same way. Strong in defense and often the number of goals his team scored was a function of the quality of attackers he had. His Madrid team was not too shabby in attack. His Chelsea team with Robben and Duff used to rip apart teams too.

The bad news for us is that Utd have money to burn, and the background management at Utd is not as poisonous as at Chelsea and Madrid. I dont think player power will be that big of an issue as it was at Madrid and Chelsea. So most likely he will win the league and Utd may make a tilt at the Champions League while he is there.

But the somewhat good news for us is that both him and Guardiola are short term managers. So maybe there is an opportunity for us to play the long game (3-4 years) and build ourselves up in the background. Our last two title challenges relied on several exceptional circumstances occurring which were not bound to repeat the next season. As impressive as the title challenges were, they were built on a foundation of sand. So maybe there is an opportunity for us to slowly build the squad strength and create an exceptional first team relying on organic player development and astute purchases. Thankfully we have the manager who is one of the best at that. As long as FSG surround him with the right people in terms of scouts, player identification, we will be fine.

 

[Dirkus_Circus]

Cant argue with Jose stats, he always wins trophies.

The style of play may be lacking but if united are near the top at xmas, their fans rightly won’t mind.

Except this year when he didn't and he flamed out spectacularly
and 2012-13 at Real Madrid when he didn't win any trophies and called it the worst season of his career
or in 07-08 when he lasted until September and then was booted out of Chelsea the first time by Roman

 

[peterhague]

Why is United a bigger challenge than Chelsea?

United can easily match Chelsea's spending power. And they've a decent nucleus of players there already. I'd say the odds are that he does win a title there in 2-3 years.

The mere thought of it is nauseating.

Utd are in a much less promising position than Chelsea were and have much stronger competition.

Chelsea and City can at least match their spending. Arsenal (yeah I know) are in theory a few players away from a top class side. Spurs are very good and will improve, and even we have Klopp.

If Mourinho wins the title at Utd next season it'll be a much bigger achievement IMO.

 

[willby]

Forgive me, sir, it is the "one or two" I refer to. Being concerned is one thing, claiming him to be invincible demonic messiah is another altogether

He's the prince of f*king darkness
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0084855/quotes

 

[cloggypop]

 

[leftpeg]

All of this Mourinho love from the man who once thanked our Champions League winning manager then told him to fuck off.

The Mourinho myth is that he has some sort of Midas touch wherever he goes. This Utd job is unlike any other he's taken. If he's successful I'll hate it but fair play he will have proved his managerial excellence beyond any credible doubt. But I don't think he will be successful and then he'll be remembered as a lucky manager who walked into jobs from which he could hardly fail.

 

[gareth_thomas]

This Utd team isn't that bad!

Add an additional 100 - 200 million to this group and they should be expected to challenge for the league.

If Jose turns this Utd team into champions it won't change my opinion. I don't think he has the ability to make ordinary teams great...he simply makes great teams consistent. He sets up solid defensive structures and then relies on the world's best players to create and finish chances. That approach Is essentially the same as what Allardyce n Pullis use, but they don't have Drogba, Ronaldo, or Ibrahimovic to get them over the line.

 

[Hyena]

...

I don't think he has the ability to make ordinary teams great...he simply makes great teams consistent. He sets up solid defensive structures and then relies on the world's best players to create and finish chances. That approach Is essentially the same as what Allardyce n Pullis use, but they don't have Drogba, Ronaldo, or Ibrahimovic to get them over the line.

That's what all managers do. Question is who does it better.

I don't think Allardyce or Pulis could have won the CL with Porto, do you?

 

[moron]

This Utd team isn't that bad!

Add an additional 100 - 200 million to this group and they should be expected to challenge for the league.

If Jose turns this Utd team into champions it won't change my opinion. I don't think he has the ability to make ordinary teams great...he simply makes great teams consistent. He sets up solid defensive structures and then relies on the world's best players to create and finish chances. That approach Is essentially the same as what Allardyce n Pullis use, but they don't have Drogba, Ronaldo, or Ibrahimovic to get them over the line.

That is exactly what he does. It worked so well then at Chelsea but he had 2 wingers in their prime in Duff and Robben who were constantly creating along with a solid midfield. I actually agree that he may just need a 100M more to improve this team and get them playing consistently BUT i think players are changing and his methods and antics will not go down well with this new generation. I can see people not getting along with him and also if he brings along Zlatan I dont think it will create a good atmosphere in that club.

 

[Judge Jules]

This Utd team isn't that bad!

Add an additional 100 - 200 million to this group and they should be expected to challenge for the league.

If Jose turns this Utd team into champions it won't change my opinion. I don't think he has the ability to make ordinary teams great...he simply makes great teams consistent. He sets up solid defensive structures and then relies on the world's best players to create and finish chances. That approach Is essentially the same as what Allardyce n Pullis use, but they don't have Drogba, Ronaldo, or Ibrahimovic to get them over the line.

It's an appalling team by their standards. They've hardly got a decent defender to their name and their midfield isn't much better. In a decent Prem season, one which didn't see Leicester feckin City winning the league, that ManU side would never have got as high as 5th, and without de Gea they wouldn't have done so anyway.

As for Mourinho, Porto were a pretty ordinary side when he won Bigears with them. What is true about him is that he's shown no inclination to stay at such a club and build long-term success.

 

[Tinto]

That Utd team is no better than ours.

 

[Roopy]

He's had the one meltdown at Chelsea but other than that he's been absolutely brilliant.

Perhaps not a long term solution for United, but in the short term he will draw big names there (even without CL next season) and get the fans back on board.

 

[Best Believe It]

That's what all managers do. Question is who does it better.

I don't think Allardyce or Pulis could have won the CL with Porto, do you?

Allardyce probably thinks he would have.

 

[reuque]

Anyone else mention yet how this will undoubtedly fuck with Pep across the city? Guardiola was massively annoyed by Mourinho when the two were at the La Liga summit and it was even mentioned that Mourinho's mindgames was a big factor to why Guardiola took that one year sabbatical after leading Barca to a few cups and titles. Now they're both even closer in proximity to each other, you can just imagine how explosive the rivalry beetween Utd and City will be next season.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

He's had the one meltdown at Chelsea but other than that he's been absolutely brilliant.

Perhaps not a long term solution for United, but in the short term he will draw big names there (even without CL next season) and get the fans back on board.

He's had two ... plenty at Madrid ... None @ Inter as far as I remember.

 

[HC]

He's got the shortest , most explosive boom-bust cycle in football .
He certainly lost his shit at Madrid , gouging eyes and inane ramblings about his squad / club.

 

[hmmmmm1]

One or 2 quality signings and they will be back in the mix.

This campaign again shows the value of having 2/3 match winners who stay fit (kane / vardy etc). Last seasonhazard, costa, cesc were on fire.

 

[manwithnoname]

There were some really weird stories coming out of Chelsea, which seemed to suggest he just got totally bored; not bothering taking training sessions, lack of passion, lacklustre tactical sessions, ignoring almost everyone, almost like he'd given up.

Be great if we see a very similar story at United.

 

[Best Believe It]

Anyone else mention yet how this will undoubtedly fuck with Pep across the city? Guardiola was massively annoyed by Mourinho when the two were at the La Liga summit and it was even mentioned that Mourinho's mindgames was a big factor to why Guardiola took that one year sabbatical after leading Barca to a few cups and titles. Now they're both even closer in proximity to each other, you can just imagine how explosive the rivalry beetween Utd and City will be next season.

Well this is it. We can hope - sort of reasonably - that both will get distracted by each other and forget they are actually managing clubs rather than trying to get one up on the other. It'll be horrifically entertaining, and it's worth pointing out that Pep isn't necessarily that nice a human being either. And will probably be around for as short a time as Mourinho is.

 

[ibromurph]

But the somewhat good news for us is that both him and Guardiola are short term managers. So maybe there is an opportunity for us to play the long game (3-4 years) and build ourselves up in the background. Our last two title challenges relied on several exceptional circumstances occurring which were not bound to repeat the next season. As impressive as the title challenges were, they were built on a foundation of sand. So maybe there is an opportunity for us to slowly build the squad strength and create an exceptional first team relying on organic player development and astute purchases. Thankfully we have the manager who is one of the best at that. As long as FSG surround him with the right people in terms of scouts, player identification, we will be fine.

I'm not so sure about that.

Our problem has been, as soon as we mount a serious title challenge, we go and SELL one our main stars and do not build on a successful team.

We sold Reina, Alonso, Mascher and Torres after 2009.

And we sold Suarez and then Sterling after 2014.

Had we simply kept our main stars, we would have won the league by now.

Imagine Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge all in the same team 2-3 years ago (they were all still playing at a relatively high level then).

 

[manwithnoname]

I'm not so sure about that.

Our problem has been, as soon as we mount a serious title challenge, we go and SELL one our main stars and do not build on a successful team.

We sold Reina, Alonso, Mascher and Torres after 2009.

And we sold Suarez and then Sterling after 2014.

Had we simply kept our main stars, we would have won the league by now.

Imagine Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge all in the same team 2-3 years ago (they were all still playing at a relatively high level then).

How do you suggest we kept Torres and Masher? They basically stopped playing for us, so desperate were they to leave.

 

[ibromurph]

How do you suggest we kept Torres and Masher? They basically stopped playing for us, so desperate were they to leave.

Imo, by not selling Alonso in the first place and building on a strong side. That lack of ambition is pretty much why they left.

And it's the same reason why Sterling left after Suarez.

Great players want to play with great players. Iron sharpens iron. In my opinion, had we kept Alonso, and actually spent money on another top player, Mascherano and Torres would not have kicked up a fuss a season later (having played with shite for a year).

 

[jexykrodic]

I've no doubt I'll bring down abuse upon my head but isn't this fixation with what Manchester United are doing a bit embarrassing?

It's exactly what we accuse them of with their constant anti-LFC songs etc.

I'm fed up with fucking Mourinho/Van Gaal/their players are..., they've got more money than us blah blah fuckin' blah.

Make it stop.

 

[manwithnoname]

Imo, by not selling Alonso in the first place and building on a strong side. That lack of ambition is pretty much why they left.

And it's the same reason why Sterling left after Suarez.

Great players want to play with great players. Iron sharpens iron. In my opinion, had we kept Alonso, and actually spent money on another top player, Mascherano and Torres would not have kicked up a fuss a season later (having played with shite for a year).

I get all that and totally agree, but "lack of ambition" really means "lack of investment". That's the biggest factor. Nobody really believed we would ever win major trophies on a consistent enough basis. I didn't blame any of them for wanting to leave - I would have.

 

[50 shades of red]

I've no doubt I'll bring down abuse upon my head but isn't this fixation with what Manchester United are doing a bit embarrassing?

It's exactly what we accuse them of with their constant anti-LFC songs etc.

I'm fed up with fucking Mourinho/Van Gaal/their players are..., they've got more money than us blah blah fuckin' blah.

Make it stop.

Embarrassing in what sense? Employing double standards when criticizing your bitterest rivals? There must be something more to following football than just watching a weekly 90 minute event.

 

[Judge Jules]

I've no doubt I'll bring down abuse upon my head but isn't this fixation with what Manchester United are doing a bit embarrassing?

It's exactly what we accuse them of with their constant anti-LFC songs etc.

I'm fed up with fucking Mourinho/Van Gaal/their players are..., they've got more money than us blah blah fuckin' blah.

Make it stop.

That doesn't deserve abuse of course, but I don't agree with it. The difference, and it's a big one, is that we discuss them when there's a specific reason to do so (in this case a change of manager, bringing with it the possible return of Mourinho to the Prem) whereas they're constantly on about us, their matchday crowds included, whether or not a particular reason arises.

 

[manwithnoname]

That doesn't deserve abuse of course, but I don't agree with it. The difference, and it's a big one, is that we discuss them when there's a specific reason to do so (in this case a change of manager, bringing with it the possible return of Mourinho to the Prem) whereas they're constantly on about us, their matchday crowds included, whether or not a particular reason arises.

Yeah, you can't please everyone all the time. Some people like discussing plenty of "non-LFC" events, and this news is pretty big, so it merits a thread in the Football Forum.

It's a bit like "transfer gossip". Lots of people enjoy discussing and rubbishing rumours of who is going where (I am one, it makes the grinding tedium of non-football summer more interesting, as long as it isn't from Twitter), many find it an irritation. As long as it's housed in a specific place, what's the harm?

Don't like it, avoid the thread in question.

 

[Woland]

It is pretty galling to discuss Maureen though. On the one hand it's so easy to hate the weasly little cunt that you can go about him in specific detail for hours, but on the other you just know he was the weird little bell wart in school who'd piss his pants just so people would look at him, so you feel dirty rising to the fact that he even exists.

 

[Silver Sean]

I will fast forward or mute any time he appears on my television for the length of his stay there. I have no interest in him, that club or the press that have their tongues rammed up his hoop. Given his record, I'll only need to do this for a max of about three years.
He's one of the main reasons I went off football.
The first question any media person should ask him anytime he pulls some of his ridiculous and vile shit is to ask, "How come Ranieri managed to win the league with no money and without behaving like a spoilt 5 year-old with narcissism and sociopathic issues?"
Every time.
Utter thundercunt.

 

[peekay]

I'm not so sure about that.

Our problem has been, as soon as we mount a serious title challenge, we go and SELL one our main stars and do not build on a successful team.

We sold Reina, Alonso, Mascher and Torres after 2009.

And we sold Suarez and then Sterling after 2014.

Had we simply kept our main stars, we would have won the league by now.

Imagine Alonso, Mascherano, Torres, Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge all in the same team 2-3 years ago (they were all still playing at a relatively high level then).

We only sold Alonso in 2009 summer. The team which finished 2nd previous year dropped to sixth. We still had Reina, Mascher, Torres.

Houllier finished second in 2002 and then finished fifth the next season.

We lost Suarez and dropped from 2nd to 6th again.

Teams loose great players. Even the Mancs under Ferguson lost players. I dont think we have had other clubs other than us launch a very good attempt at the title and then wilt away the next season. Chelsea this season is the only example I can think off.

Not trying to denigrate the achievements of 2002,2009,2014 squad and the managers. They were all spectacular efforts on everybody involved - from the manager down to the substitutes. But we had a number factors align for us. The randomness fell in our favor. In 2014 for example we had a significantly higher than average set piece goals, out defenders actually scored higher than average important goals, Sturridge remained fit. In 2009, we had fringe players like Yossi Benayoun and Riera playing way above their ability and making significantly higher than average contributions. In all three cases, we had a certain group of players performing at 120% which was phenomenal but not sustainable.

The next season when everyone reverted back to 80-100% performance level, we lose one important core player, get slightly unlucky with injuries, randomness corrects itself (not many set piece goals, no contribution to goals from defenders) and the entire campaign collapses. This was what I meant by foundation of sand. In all three cases, once you get past the core players the squad was very very poor. We need to build a strong base of young players and mix it with a few elite players (easier said that done) and we should be set to consistently challenge for trophies. We should be at a level where we can hit top 4 consistently with everyone performing at 80-100%.