Liverpool vs Everton (league, home)

[manwithnoname]

Martinez is really banging his drum in ever increasing desperation.

His Times interview today claims that his playing style and philosophy allows him and Everton to "aim higher than Moyes" and "no longer restrained by an inferiority complex that made failure inevitable"

"I always promote a style of football that will allow us to compete with any team - and not have a roof of the Top 7"

It's hard to imagine this going down well with your average Bitters, because it does sort of suggest the following:

1) He has a philosophy of playing style that does not take into consideration the playing staff and resources available, a bit like Real Sociedad deciding they will play the same way as Barcelona. When playing Barcelona. This rather plays right into the hands of those who say he has no tactical Plan B and no grasp of actual reality; ie a bullshitting fantasist who refuses to change.

2) He seems quite happy to lose games, as long as they play with the right style. And this means that when they play superior teams, their style may occasionally allow them to secure a famous - one-off - win, as evidenced by his relative success in the cups so far, but overall, they'll lose far more than they win, as evidenced by his realtive lack of success in the league.

So his impassioned defence of himself and his managerial style and philosophy, is in fact a tacit agreement that all of the criticism aimed at him is entirely accurate.

He's getting sacked.

 

[Judge Jules]

What's the betting their new investor is putting the pressure on behind the scenes?

 

[manwithnoname]

What's the betting their new investor is putting the pressure on behind the scenes?

I'm not sure he has to do anything at all right now, apart from be there. Benignly plotting his first decisive statement as new majority shareholder (ie owner).
Martinez knows full well that obvious, noisy fan unrest is the death sentence for any manager if it goes on too long, especially with a new owner....sitting there. Watching.

If Bill wasn't still in his honorary chairman role, I'd be putting money on Martinez getting sacked in summer.

 

[leftpeg]

I'm ok with that rumoured 11. I'm also more confident we'll win tonight...because I'm not going...than I am about Newcastle at the weekend...because I am.

 

[doctor_mac]

We have had a recent record of scoring late in the game while Everton have a persistent habit of falling to pieces late in games. Lukaku v our defence scares me.

I'd bet on 4+ goals in this. 3-2. 4-3.

 

[Best Believe It]

We really should win this considering the state Everton are in. I imagine this is how Everton fans felt when we were managed by Hodgson.

 

[manwithnoname]

We really should win this considering the state Everton are in. I imagine this is how Everton fans felt when we were managed by Hodgson.

Well not quite, he actually had a pretty great season when he first arrived, plus they do actually have a very decent squad.

And going from Benitez to Hodgson, under the backdrop of liquidation and Hicks/ Gillette meltdowns is hardly the same as going from Moyes to Martinez and having a brand new owner/cash.

After that first season, when they finished fifth and won seven games on the bounce, it was all about "Return Of The School Of Science", and all of the players so lauded (McCarthy, Lukaku, Barkley, Barry, Jagielka, Stones, Mirallas,Coleman, Baines) are still there, but any cursory glance at Wigan under Martinez should have been enough to generate some warning signs.

But no, everything was just great and now, less than two seasons later, they all hate him and he's a fraud.

 

[Best Believe It]

Well not quite, he actually had a pretty great season when he first arrived, plus they do actually have a very decent squad.

And going from Benitez to Hodgson, under the backdrop of liquidation and Hicks/ Gillette meltdowns is hardly the same as going from Moyes to Martinez and having a brand new owner/cash.

After that first season, when they finished fifth and won seven games on the bounce, it was all about "Return Of The School Of Science", and all of the players so lauded (McCarthy, Lukaku, Barkley, Barry, Jagielka, Stones, Mirallas,Coleman, Baines) are still there, but any cursory glance at Wigan under Martinez should have been enough to generate some warning signs.

But no, everything was just great and now, less than two seasons later, they all hate him and he's a fraud.

You're right - I wasn't comparing the two in terms of record, more that Everton fans must have looked at us under Hodgson and thought we should beat these.

Martinez is indeed a massive bluffer; I'm impressed that he either can't see that everyone can see through him, or that he still thinks all the bluster will pull the wool over people's eyes. There's pretty much no-one lauding him in any way now but he's still trying to kid everyone that they've been playing brilliantly and that their position/points total is somehow false. Like a pint-pot Wenger.

 

[manwithnoname]

You're right - I wasn't comparing the two in terms of record, more that Everton fans must have looked at us under Hodgson and thought we should beat these.

Martinez is indeed a massive bluffer; I'm impressed that he either can't see that everyone can see through him, or that he still thinks all the bluster will pull the wool over people's eyes. There's pretty much no-one lauding him in any way now but he's still trying to kid everyone that they've been playing brilliantly and that their position/points total is somehow false. Like a pint-pot Wenger.

Well, you know the cliche about "form-books" and derbies. In any case, despite the rampant charlatanism on display from Martinez, and the hordes disaffected of Bitters scenting blood and ready to jump onto any mistake, they still have some very good players.

God, I just hope we batter them..

 

[doctor_mac]

Well not quite, he actually had a pretty great season when he first arrived, plus they do actually have a very decent squad.

And going from Benitez to Hodgson, under the backdrop of liquidation and Hicks/ Gillette meltdowns is hardly the same as going from Moyes to Martinez and having a brand new owner/cash.

After that first season, when they finished fifth and won seven games on the bounce, it was all about "Return Of The School Of Science", and all of the players so lauded (McCarthy, Lukaku, Barkley, Barry, Jagielka, Stones, Mirallas,Coleman, Baines) are still there, but any cursory glance at Wigan under Martinez should have been enough to generate some warning signs.

But no, everything was just great and now, less than two seasons later, they all hate him and he's a fraud.

They paid 28m for Lukaku. 13m for McCarthy. 13.5m for Niasse. Moyes must have spat his tea out on a few occasions when he opened up the sports pages of his newspaper. They've been backing Martinez financially to a degree that didn't happen under Moyes.

 

[6TimesaRed]

I'm beginning to start to develop a hatred for Lucas.. As every thread I read on here nowadays is turning into a Lucas fest..

Can he just get injured again so we can all forget about him again for a while?? Please??

 

[manwithnoname]

They paid 28m for Lukaku. 13m for McCarthy. 13.5m for Niasse. Moyes must have spat his tea out on a few occasions when he opened up the sports pages of his newspaper. They've been backing Martinez financially to a degree that didn't happen under Moyes.

Martinez has spent about £10m net a year, so it's still not amazingly high. Moyes probably helped fund Lukaku by spending £28m on Fellaini.

 

[Modo]

Everton will probably rest a few players for the Fa cup semi final 3 days later, so hopefully we can coast this one.

The line up will probably be:

-----------------Mignolet

Clyne-----Lovren----Sakho----Moreno

------------------Lucas

-------Milner------------Allen

Lallana-------Sturridge------Coutinho

 

[Buddha]

Origi to start for sure.

 

[Judge Jules]

There's no way we'll be able to "coast" any part of this game. Whoever they play will be well up for it and urged on by a manager who knows his job's on the line. If we go into it with that attitude we'll lose.

 

[manwithnoname]

Everton will probably rest a few players for the Fa cup semi final 3 days later, so hopefully we can coast this one.

The line up will probably be:

-----------------Mignolet

Clyne-----Lovren----Sakho----Moreno

------------------Lucas

-------Milner------------Allen

Lallana-------Sturridge------Coutinho

They won't be resting players

 

[manwithnoname]

There's no way we'll be able to "coast" anything about this game. Whoever they play will be well up for it and urged on by a manager who knows his job's on the line. If we go into it with that attitude we'll lose.

True, plus Martinez won't rest players and it'll be a recognisable and strong Everton side, for all the obvious reasons.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I'd start Smith again ...

 

[Jack D Rips]

Well Coleman and Jagielka wont be playing anyway

 

[Hansern]

Martinez has spent about £10m net a year, so it's still not amazingly high. Moyes probably helped fund Lukaku by spending £28m on Fellaini.

They spent 27,7 mill net this season and 36,5 mill net last season, in his first season they had a negative net spend of 16 mill.

They've given him plenty of money.

 

[Modo]

They spent 27,7 mill net this season and 36,5 mill net last season, in his first season they had a negative net spend of 16 mill.

We should really try to lure Barkley over before Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal or Man C do.

 

[doctor_mac]

Martinez has spent about £10m net a year, so it's still not amazingly high. Moyes probably helped fund Lukaku by spending £28m on Fellaini.

Yes, selling Fellaini has helped balance the books. He has still spent a fair bit more than that net. He's spent 47.7m net in the last 3 seasons. That's silly money compared to what Moyes had to spend. I know, of course, it's significantly less than our spending.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/everton/english-football-teams/everton-transfers

 

[doctor_mac]

Coleman has apparently gone to shit this season. He has been consistently one of the best FBs in the league.

 

[Woland]

They were doing ok about six weeks ago. It's nowhere near as bad as they have been in recent memory

 

[manwithnoname]

We should really try to lure Barkley over before Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal or Man C do.

The chances of Everton selling their best young player since Rooney to Liverpool is laughably unlikely. It is equally unlikely that he would want to come, as a staunch Evertonian.

 

[Modo]

The chances of Everton selling their best young player since Rooney to Liverpool is laughably unlikely. It is equally unlikely that he would want to come, as a staunch Evertonian.

Well its all about ambition in the end and money talks.

 

[manwithnoname]

Well its all about ambition in the end and money talks.

No it isn't. Quite often when it comes to this kind of proposed transfer, money does not talk loudest. Which is why neither club has ever sold their current best young player to the other, and that transfers of any kind between the two are very rare indeed.

Cheers.

 

[Modo]

No it isn't. Quite often when it comes to this kind of proposed transfer, money does not talk loudest. Which is why neither club has ever sold their current best young player to the other, and that transfers of any kind between the two are very rare indeed.

Cheers.

Wow you're amazing. You think I'm talking about it as if I'm absolutely certain it will happen.


I still think we should test Everton regarding Barkley. Just like Man u did with Gerrard and probably with Fowler.
If the bid is good but the boy doesn't want to come well that's his problem.

We did buy Barmby from Everton if I remember it correctly.

 

[hamstrung_pigeon]

They were doing ok about six weeks ago. It's nowhere near as bad as they have been in recent memory

I think it's been much longer than that. Since the last week of November, they've compiled a 4W- 9D-7L record in 20 games. That's about a point a game and is skirting very close to relegation form.

 

[manwithnoname]

Wow you're amazing. You think I'm talking about it as if I'm absolutely certain it will happen.


I still think we should test Everton regarding Barkley. Just like Man u did with Gerrard and probably with Fowler.
If the bid is good but the boy doesn't want to come well that's his problem.

We did buy Barmby from Everton if I remember it correctly.

Yeah, we did. Was he the last one? Maybe Abel Xavier? Were either of them born in Wavertree?

And United making any bid for Gerrard or Fowler, assuming they happened anywhere else apart from in your head, is equally stupid