Kuyt (was he worth £10m)
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[quote author=themn link=topic=44262.msg1287473#msg1287473 date=1298034644]
Kirk won't be happy unless he's Captain, Neil.
[/quote]
to be fair to kuyt I don't think he is a poor player and his performance v stoke up front on his own was fantastic but I we need better options in wide positons and wont progress until we get them. it's actually fair to say this has been the case for the better part of a decade.
Kirk won't be happy unless he's Captain, Neil.
[/quote]
to be fair to kuyt I don't think he is a poor player and his performance v stoke up front on his own was fantastic but I we need better options in wide positons and wont progress until we get them. it's actually fair to say this has been the case for the better part of a decade.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44262.msg1287476#msg1287476 date=1298035116]
[quote author=themn link=topic=44262.msg1287473#msg1287473 date=1298034644]
Kirk won't be happy unless he's Captain, Neil.
[/quote]
to be fair to kuyt I don't think he is a poor player and his performance v stoke up front on his own was fantastic but I we need better options in wide positons and wont progress until we get them. it's actually fair to say this has been the case for the better part of a decade.
[/quote]
"You're suffering from a Vulcan mind-meld, Neil"
[quote author=themn link=topic=44262.msg1287473#msg1287473 date=1298034644]
Kirk won't be happy unless he's Captain, Neil.
[/quote]
to be fair to kuyt I don't think he is a poor player and his performance v stoke up front on his own was fantastic but I we need better options in wide positons and wont progress until we get them. it's actually fair to say this has been the case for the better part of a decade.
[/quote]
"You're suffering from a Vulcan mind-meld, Neil"
Kirk might not be, but Dirk, I would like to think, would fight for a place, I doubt if there is a big move or pay day waiting anywhere.
He is pretty flexible and would get games
regards
He is pretty flexible and would get games
regards
I think that's probably right, though I can see Rafa asking about him again if he gets another top-end job.
Kuyt has justified the 10M easy. However, he wouldn't fetch that now. And if we paid 10M for the player he is now, I'd be gutted.
I don't agree with the point that Kuyt's stats are good because he's a wide player. He's not a strict wide player, never has been. That said, his return for wherever he plays has been ok. Martin Jol said he was a 20/20 player when we pipped his Spurs to Kuyt's signature; a 20 goal, 20 assist a season man. He's not been that good, but he's had decent returns.
We have other holes to fill before we get round to his deficiencies. Which has always been the case.
I don't agree with the point that Kuyt's stats are good because he's a wide player. He's not a strict wide player, never has been. That said, his return for wherever he plays has been ok. Martin Jol said he was a 20/20 player when we pipped his Spurs to Kuyt's signature; a 20 goal, 20 assist a season man. He's not been that good, but he's had decent returns.
We have other holes to fill before we get round to his deficiencies. Which has always been the case.
so what we are saying is kuyt is a fool, he burnt himself out when he should have been a bit smarter and coasted through a couple of games here and there like lucas does. then he might still have another five years of football left in him. but what's done is done and now that his visibily aged body is of no more use to us he can fuck off
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=44262.msg1287609#msg1287609 date=1298048166]
so what we are saying is kuyt is a fool, he burnt himself out when he should have been a bit smarter and coasted through a couple of games here and there like lucas does. then he might still have another five years of football left in him. but what's done is done and now that his visibily aged body is of no more use to us he can fuck off
[/quote]
errrr....No
so what we are saying is kuyt is a fool, he burnt himself out when he should have been a bit smarter and coasted through a couple of games here and there like lucas does. then he might still have another five years of football left in him. but what's done is done and now that his visibily aged body is of no more use to us he can fuck off
[/quote]
errrr....No
B
bkwitche2
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[quote author=RolandG link=topic=44262.msg1287049#msg1287049 date=1297977463]
He is still easily worth £10M!
[/quote]
First, yes, he was well worth the dosh we put down for him. He's probably scored 1 goal that was worth that much in the CL at some point.
Second, in response to Roland's comment here, being worth 10 back then and being worth 10 now are two VERY different things.
He is still easily worth £10M!
[/quote]
First, yes, he was well worth the dosh we put down for him. He's probably scored 1 goal that was worth that much in the CL at some point.
Second, in response to Roland's comment here, being worth 10 back then and being worth 10 now are two VERY different things.
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=44262.msg1287644#msg1287644 date=1298052586]
Im 100% with Vlad about Kuyt.
[/quote]
I think most are but feel too guilty to admit it.
Im 100% with Vlad about Kuyt.
[/quote]
I think most are but feel too guilty to admit it.
I can't hate Kuyt, he's far too nice a bloke. I don't want to see him on the team sheet every week, granted, but he gives his all which is far more than can be said of several players at the club over the last 2 seasons.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44262.msg1287647#msg1287647 date=1298052735]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=44262.msg1287644#msg1287644 date=1298052586]
Im 100% with Vlad about Kuyt.
[/quote]
I think most are but feel too guilty to admit it.
[/quote]
Hmm not too sure about that...hes rated as some footballing god by many posters on here.
I like Kuyt and his work ethic and wish other players in the squad had the same quality...But, he makes me cringe at times, breaking our counter attacks with an awful 1st touch, hitting the opponents on most crosses, etc...
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=44262.msg1287644#msg1287644 date=1298052586]
Im 100% with Vlad about Kuyt.
[/quote]
I think most are but feel too guilty to admit it.
[/quote]
Hmm not too sure about that...hes rated as some footballing god by many posters on here.
I like Kuyt and his work ethic and wish other players in the squad had the same quality...But, he makes me cringe at times, breaking our counter attacks with an awful 1st touch, hitting the opponents on most crosses, etc...
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44262.msg1287360#msg1287360 date=1298022629]
For me a good example is the athens final. Kuyt scored in that final but a better option crouch (who didn't score) IMHO would have won us the game. Kuyt gets goals and assists but better options in wide positions probably won't score as much but will help win us more games which ultimately is all I give a fuck about.
[/quote]I honestly think if you put this quote into some kind of search engine that took a bunch of factors like 'Making sense' and 'Being accurate' and 'Having a point' and probably about 15 to 20 other reverse negative factors along with every single post in the history of the internet in order to come up with the shittest single post in history, youd have a real good chance there Neil.
For me a good example is the athens final. Kuyt scored in that final but a better option crouch (who didn't score) IMHO would have won us the game. Kuyt gets goals and assists but better options in wide positions probably won't score as much but will help win us more games which ultimately is all I give a fuck about.
[/quote]I honestly think if you put this quote into some kind of search engine that took a bunch of factors like 'Making sense' and 'Being accurate' and 'Having a point' and probably about 15 to 20 other reverse negative factors along with every single post in the history of the internet in order to come up with the shittest single post in history, youd have a real good chance there Neil.
I agree with what Neil's getting at.
Having a wide tricky pacey player on the wing that wizzes past players and puts penetrating balls through or into the box, someone that the opposition seriously worries about, would be far more effective for the team's overall performance and results than when we play with Kuyt.
I'd rather have Macca at his peak, for example, playing for us instead of Kuyt, even though he got fewer goals for us (if my memory's right).
Having a wide tricky pacey player on the wing that wizzes past players and puts penetrating balls through or into the box, someone that the opposition seriously worries about, would be far more effective for the team's overall performance and results than when we play with Kuyt.
I'd rather have Macca at his peak, for example, playing for us instead of Kuyt, even though he got fewer goals for us (if my memory's right).
yes he was well worth the money we paid because he is a top player.
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=44262.msg1287665#msg1287665 date=1298056696]
I agree with what Neil's getting at.
Having a wide tricky pacey player on the wing that wizzes past players and puts penetrating balls through or into the box, someone that the opposition seriously worries about, would be far more effective for the team's overall performance and results than when we play with Kuyt.
I'd rather have Macca at his peak, for example, playing for us instead of Kuyt, even though he got fewer goals for us (if my memory's right).
[/quote]
It's easier to say Mcmoneyman.
I was racking my head wondering why you were talking wingers and then Steve Mcmahon 8)
I agree with what Neil's getting at.
Having a wide tricky pacey player on the wing that wizzes past players and puts penetrating balls through or into the box, someone that the opposition seriously worries about, would be far more effective for the team's overall performance and results than when we play with Kuyt.
I'd rather have Macca at his peak, for example, playing for us instead of Kuyt, even though he got fewer goals for us (if my memory's right).
[/quote]
It's easier to say Mcmoneyman.
I was racking my head wondering why you were talking wingers and then Steve Mcmahon 8)
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44262.msg1287723#msg1287723 date=1298066947]
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=44262.msg1287665#msg1287665 date=1298056696]
I agree with what Neil's getting at.
Having a wide tricky pacey player on the wing that wizzes past players and puts penetrating balls through or into the box, someone that the opposition seriously worries about, would be far more effective for the team's overall performance and results than when we play with Kuyt.
I'd rather have Macca at his peak, for example, playing for us instead of Kuyt, even though he got fewer goals for us (if my memory's right).
[/quote]
It's easier to say Mcmoneyman.
I was racking my head wondering why you were talking wingers and then Steve Mcmahon 8)
[/quote]
i was wondering how junior can even say that at all. was he trying to, the tone and flow his words gives the impression that kuyt is superior to macca, but for reason x y and z he'd rather have macca anyway.
thats a fucking insult. mcmanaman is as far beyond kuyt, as kuyt is beyond el zhar. fucking hell it makes me sad how such great players can be forgotten and ugh
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=44262.msg1287665#msg1287665 date=1298056696]
I agree with what Neil's getting at.
Having a wide tricky pacey player on the wing that wizzes past players and puts penetrating balls through or into the box, someone that the opposition seriously worries about, would be far more effective for the team's overall performance and results than when we play with Kuyt.
I'd rather have Macca at his peak, for example, playing for us instead of Kuyt, even though he got fewer goals for us (if my memory's right).
[/quote]
It's easier to say Mcmoneyman.
I was racking my head wondering why you were talking wingers and then Steve Mcmahon 8)
[/quote]
i was wondering how junior can even say that at all. was he trying to, the tone and flow his words gives the impression that kuyt is superior to macca, but for reason x y and z he'd rather have macca anyway.
thats a fucking insult. mcmanaman is as far beyond kuyt, as kuyt is beyond el zhar. fucking hell it makes me sad how such great players can be forgotten and ugh
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=44262.msg1287726#msg1287726 date=1298067491]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44262.msg1287723#msg1287723 date=1298066947]
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=44262.msg1287665#msg1287665 date=1298056696]
I agree with what Neil's getting at.
Having a wide tricky pacey player on the wing that wizzes past players and puts penetrating balls through or into the box, someone that the opposition seriously worries about, would be far more effective for the team's overall performance and results than when we play with Kuyt.
I'd rather have Macca at his peak, for example, playing for us instead of Kuyt, even though he got fewer goals for us (if my memory's right).
[/quote]
It's easier to say Mcmoneyman.
I was racking my head wondering why you were talking wingers and then Steve Mcmahon 8)
[/quote]
i was wondering how junior can even say that at all. was he trying to, the tone and flow his words gives the impression that kuyt is superior to macca, but for reason x y and z he'd rather have macca anyway.
thats a fucking insult. mcmanaman is as far beyond kuyt, as kuyt is beyond el zhar. fucking hell it makes me sad how such great players can be forgotten and ugh
[/quote]
I think you misunderstood me.
Kuyt gets more goals, but that's about it. But his workrate and goals gets him constant praise by some, and I was simply saying that the other qualities that I mentioned would far outweigh those goals, using McMoneyman (just for you, Avvy!) as an example.
Yes, he was a fantastic player for us. I long for the days of Fowler, McManaman, Collymore, Redknapp, etc. If only we had a stronger defense I'm positive we could have won a few titles under Evans.
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44262.msg1287723#msg1287723 date=1298066947]
[quote author=juniormember link=topic=44262.msg1287665#msg1287665 date=1298056696]
I agree with what Neil's getting at.
Having a wide tricky pacey player on the wing that wizzes past players and puts penetrating balls through or into the box, someone that the opposition seriously worries about, would be far more effective for the team's overall performance and results than when we play with Kuyt.
I'd rather have Macca at his peak, for example, playing for us instead of Kuyt, even though he got fewer goals for us (if my memory's right).
[/quote]
It's easier to say Mcmoneyman.
I was racking my head wondering why you were talking wingers and then Steve Mcmahon 8)
[/quote]
i was wondering how junior can even say that at all. was he trying to, the tone and flow his words gives the impression that kuyt is superior to macca, but for reason x y and z he'd rather have macca anyway.
thats a fucking insult. mcmanaman is as far beyond kuyt, as kuyt is beyond el zhar. fucking hell it makes me sad how such great players can be forgotten and ugh
[/quote]
I think you misunderstood me.
Kuyt gets more goals, but that's about it. But his workrate and goals gets him constant praise by some, and I was simply saying that the other qualities that I mentioned would far outweigh those goals, using McMoneyman (just for you, Avvy!) as an example.
Yes, he was a fantastic player for us. I long for the days of Fowler, McManaman, Collymore, Redknapp, etc. If only we had a stronger defense I'm positive we could have won a few titles under Evans.
Re: Kuyt (was he worth £10m)
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44262.msg1287736#msg1287736 date=1298068310]
Yeah, that team would have been very good had we not been saddled with the likes of Scales and Nutcracker. 🙁
[/quote]
I'm not sure I agree with you and juniormember on this actually. Both those players, and others whom we signed at the time (Riedle, McAteer, Leonhardsen, the list goes on), were in good form for their previous clubs and looked like decent buys, only for their careers to fizzle out once they arrived. IMO the main problem always lay in Uncle Roy's shortcomings as a manager. He's probably the clearest example I can recall in football of a good no.2 who should never have had the top job.
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=44262.msg1287736#msg1287736 date=1298068310]
Yeah, that team would have been very good had we not been saddled with the likes of Scales and Nutcracker. 🙁
[/quote]
I'm not sure I agree with you and juniormember on this actually. Both those players, and others whom we signed at the time (Riedle, McAteer, Leonhardsen, the list goes on), were in good form for their previous clubs and looked like decent buys, only for their careers to fizzle out once they arrived. IMO the main problem always lay in Uncle Roy's shortcomings as a manager. He's probably the clearest example I can recall in football of a good no.2 who should never have had the top job.
I think with Kuyt his passion, effort and tireless work rate masks his average ability. No doubt I think his been a better return than babbel (whom if he went to Arsenal, probably been world class by now).
Babel, mate, not Babbel (who was possibly our greatest RB ever), and I doubt he'd have made it even at the Arse - not enough brain or bottle to go with the definite ability. Wenger watched him for a long time and decided not to sign him, which tells its own story.
Took a while, but I did finally get a couple of bites.
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