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Kuyt (was he worth £10m)

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[quote author=redhorizon link=topic=44262.msg1287165#msg1287165 date=1297979331]
he scores on an average of 8-10 goals a season(quite bad for a striker). Does anyone have any stats on him to evaluate his worth?
[/quote]

* Stats for assists may differ slightly as various media's definition differs.

2010/11 Season
League: 22 app 4 goals 5 assists
Europa: 5 app 1 goal
FA Cup: 1 app

Sum: 28 app 5 goals 5 assists

2009/10 Season
League: 37 app 9 goals 4 assists
CL: 6 app 1 goal
Europa: 7 app 1 goal 1 assist
League Cup: 1 app
FA Cup: 2 app

Sum: 53 app 11 goals 5 assists

2008/09 Season
League: 38 app 12 goals 9 assists
CL: 11 app 3 goals 2 assists
FA Cup: 2 app

Sum: 51 app 15 goals 11 assists

2007/08 Season
League: 32 app 3 goals 8 assists
CL: 12 app 7 goals 1 assist
FA Cup: 4 app 1 goal

Sum: 48 app 11 goals 9 assists

2006/07 Season
League: 34 app 12 goals 1 assist
CL: 12 app 1 goal
FA Cup: 1 app 1 goal

Sum: 47 app 14 goals 1 assist

One standout is obviously his number of appearances - averaging 50 games per season for the last 4 (When you compare that against some of our other players, really puts their app stats to shame - you know who they are >_&lt😉.

Avg: 50 app per season, 1 goal every 4 app, 1 assist every 7 app
 
I think kuyt is poor and us given an easy ride because he works hard. But it's painfully apparent to anyone that he's more than justified his fee
 
Re: Kuyt (was he worth £10m)

He shouldn't be first choice anything for our club, not by a long shot, and we could have done better for £10M

But he has more than justified his fee with some very important performances.
 
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=44262.msg1287290#msg1287290 date=1297995861]
Kuyt shits appearances.
[/quote]

Hehe
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44262.msg1287288#msg1287288 date=1297994067]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44262.msg1287286#msg1287286 date=1297992689]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44262.msg1287274#msg1287274 date=1297987102]
He has probably been good value compared to lot of players we have had over the years, he is very likeable, but really not that much better than average, and for long spells is just plain awful.
Is he still worth 10m? I doubt it very much, and in reality should not be a first choice player week in week out , if we do have any ambition that is

regards
[/quote]

Scores important goals, in big games and probably has more goals and assists to his name than most wide men in the last few years in the Premiership.

He's not always great but putting him down as peripherally effective and average is doing him a massive injustice. He's proven his quality against top opposition time and time again.
[/quote]

He has some great strengths but equally great weaknesses Mark. As I said I like the guy he works hard and has a big heart, but that is not enough. He was brought as a striker, he could not hack it up front and was found a berth on the right more by accident than design. Where as I say he has been no more than an average to slightly above average job. Occasionally he is very good, but more often than not he isn't.
If you tell me you would rather have Dirk playing wide than a recognised wide player I would be very surprised. His touch is fucking awful, as is his decision making more often than not and his ability to hit the opposition player with the ball from three yards has few peers. He might support but for the position he plays does not create enough
I keep saying this and I am perfectly serious, the time I know we have progressed is when Dirk and Lucas are on the bench more often than not. At the moment we have no viable alternative.
I think people let their hearts rule their heads and let sentiment come into it when it comes to Dirk , he is like the family golden Labrador , everyone loves him, he is very faithful, but he is a bit clumsy and bouncy.
As I say I respect his work ethic, and I respect other peoples views, but as a footballer , he has never ever really convinced me

regards

[/quote]

I'm with Vlad.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=44262.msg1287327#msg1287327 date=1298011687]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44262.msg1287288#msg1287288 date=1297994067]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44262.msg1287286#msg1287286 date=1297992689]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44262.msg1287274#msg1287274 date=1297987102]
He has probably been good value compared to lot of players we have had over the years, he is very likeable, but really not that much better than average, and for long spells is just plain awful.
Is he still worth 10m? I doubt it very much, and in reality should not be a first choice player week in week out , if we do have any ambition that is

regards
[/quote]

Scores important goals, in big games and probably has more goals and assists to his name than most wide men in the last few years in the Premiership.

He's not always great but putting him down as peripherally effective and average is doing him a massive injustice. He's proven his quality against top opposition time and time again.
[/quote]

He has some great strengths but equally great weaknesses Mark. As I said I like the guy he works hard and has a big heart, but that is not enough. He was brought as a striker, he could not hack it up front and was found a berth on the right more by accident than design. Where as I say he has been no more than an average to slightly above average job. Occasionally he is very good, but more often than not he isn't.
If you tell me you would rather have Dirk playing wide than a recognised wide player I would be very surprised. His touch is fucking awful, as is his decision making more often than not and his ability to hit the opposition player with the ball from three yards has few peers. He might support but for the position he plays does not create enough
I keep saying this and I am perfectly serious, the time I know we have progressed is when Dirk and Lucas are on the bench more often than not. At the moment we have no viable alternative.
I think people let their hearts rule their heads and let sentiment come into it when it comes to Dirk , he is like the family golden Labrador , everyone loves him, he is very faithful, but he is a bit clumsy and bouncy.
As I say I respect his work ethic, and I respect other peoples views, but as a footballer , he has never ever really convinced me

regards

[/quote]

I'm with Vlad.
[/quote]

Same here ...

He's a great Red and WORTH his fee, but he's no RW in the 4-4-2 ... He's pretty good (when on form) in the 4-2-3-1 RW position however. I think a player like Kuyt should be a part of our team, but I don't think he'd be starting for the top 4 teams ... but for fuck sakes, we need to win something to get him a medal.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44262.msg1287288#msg1287288 date=1297994067]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=44262.msg1287286#msg1287286 date=1297992689]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44262.msg1287274#msg1287274 date=1297987102]
He has probably been good value compared to lot of players we have had over the years, he is very likeable, but really not that much better than average, and for long spells is just plain awful.
Is he still worth 10m? I doubt it very much, and in reality should not be a first choice player week in week out , if we do have any ambition that is

regards
[/quote]

Scores important goals, in big games and probably has more goals and assists to his name than most wide men in the last few years in the Premiership.

He's not always great but putting him down as peripherally effective and average is doing him a massive injustice. He's proven his quality against top opposition time and time again.
[/quote]

He has some great strengths but equally great weaknesses Mark. As I said I like the guy he works hard and has a big heart, but that is not enough. He was brought as a striker, he could not hack it up front and was found a berth on the right more by accident than design. Where as I say he has been no more than an average to slightly above average job. Occasionally he is very good, but more often than not he isn't.
If you tell me you would rather have Dirk playing wide than a recognised wide player I would be very surprised. His touch is fucking awful, as is his decision making more often than not and his ability to hit the opposition player with the ball from three yards has few peers. He might support but for the position he plays does not create enough
I keep saying this and I am perfectly serious, the time I know we have progressed is when Dirk and Lucas are on the bench more often than not. At the moment we have no viable alternative.
I think people let their hearts rule their heads and let sentiment come into it when it comes to Dirk , he is like the family golden Labrador , everyone loves him, he is very faithful, but he is a bit clumsy and bouncy.
As I say I respect his work ethic, and I respect other peoples views, but as a footballer , he has never ever really convinced me

regards

[/quote]

Vlad, I more or less agree, I'm just taking stock with the whole "was he worth £10m?" question. Of course he was.

I was as disappointed as anyone in his first season and more or less wrote him off, because I expected a goal machine, as it was what we got was endearing in a different way, he sweats blood and gives his all, and in that sense I'd liken him to Carra, another who people have dismissed and written off time and time again.

Agreed though, we should now be aspiring to better things as a team, but he still has a big part to play despite the recent slump (not forgetting his age now too).
 
he has definately justified his fee but it's time we moved on from him. a club with ambition wouldn't have him as first choice in a wide position and wouldn't have him as first choice up front. really hope he is sold in the summer and replaced with better options on the flanks because we already have better options up front.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44262.msg1287338#msg1287338 date=1298016853]
he has definately justified his fee but it's time we moved on from him. a club with ambition wouldn't have him as first choice in a wide position and wouldn't have him as first choice up front. really hope he is sold in the summer and replaced with better options on the flanks because we already have better options up front.
[/quote]

What's the point in him being sold, unless it's for a big fee? He should drop to the bench as Vlad said, strength in depth and all that. I'd rather see him there than Maxi, Cole, etc.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=44262.msg1287316#msg1287316 date=1298008641]
Yes. Also, his technical ability is terribly underrated.
[/quote]

This is a joke. right?
 
[quote author=Binny link=topic=44262.msg1287289#msg1287289 date=1297995559]
[quote author=redhorizon link=topic=44262.msg1287165#msg1287165 date=1297979331]
he scores on an average of 8-10 goals a season(quite bad for a striker). Does anyone have any stats on him to evaluate his worth?
[/quote]

* Stats for assists may differ slightly as various media's definition differs.

2010/11 Season
League: 22 app 4 goals 5 assists
Europa: 5 app 1 goal
FA Cup: 1 app

Sum: 28 app 5 goals 5 assists

2009/10 Season
League: 37 app 9 goals 4 assists
CL: 6 app 1 goal
Europa: 7 app 1 goal 1 assist
League Cup: 1 app
FA Cup: 2 app

Sum: 53 app 11 goals 5 assists

2008/09 Season
League: 38 app 12 goals 9 assists
CL: 11 app 3 goals 2 assists
FA Cup: 2 app

Sum: 51 app 15 goals 11 assists

2007/08 Season
League: 32 app 3 goals 8 assists
CL: 12 app 7 goals 1 assist
FA Cup: 4 app 1 goal

Sum: 48 app 11 goals 9 assists

2006/07 Season
League: 34 app 12 goals 1 assist
CL: 12 app 1 goal
FA Cup: 1 app 1 goal

Sum: 47 app 14 goals 1 assist

One standout is obviously his number of appearances - averaging 50 games per season for the last 4 (When you compare that against some of our other players, really puts their app stats to shame - you know who they are >_&lt😉.

Avg: 50 app per season, 1 goal every 4 app, 1 assist every 7 app



[/quote]

Thanks for that Binny, this season, just out of interest how many were pens? Anyone know?

regards
 
For me a good example is the athens final. Kuyt scored in that final but a better option crouch (who didn't score) IMHO would have won us the game. Kuyt gets goals and assists but better options in wide positions probably won't score as much but will help win us more games which ultimately is all I give a fuck about.
 
I like Dirk a lot and I agree we've got our £10m worth for him. Having said that, when we bought him we had Crouch on our books and I wouldn't have spent that much money on another forward who wasn't a significant upgrade.

Still, I thought he was generally very good on the right of the 3 in the 4-2-3-1 during the season we came second. He combined really well with Arbeloa to make our right flank a significant weapon. Also with Riera and Aurelio serving up some decent crosses from the left, Dirk was able to get on the end of some of them and score a few goals.

Since then though, he hasn't really been able to form such a good understanding with Johnson on our right flank for one reason or another, and crosses from the left has pretty much dried up, so there's nothing for him to get on to the end of.

He isn't as effective on the right now and I prefer him up top nowadays as he is better than Ngog, but yes, he should be a squad player rather than an automatic starter if we are to have title ambitions. Until we get better in the wide positions though, the team is better with him in it than not.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44262.msg1287359#msg1287359 date=1298022177]

Thanks for that Binny, this season, just out of interest how many were pens? Anyone know?

regards
[/quote]

Cheers, Vlads.

2 penalties from the 5 goals this season. Both at home - vs. Everton and West Ham.
 
[quote author=Binny link=topic=44262.msg1287401#msg1287401 date=1298026754]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44262.msg1287359#msg1287359 date=1298022177]

Thanks for that Binny, this season, just out of interest how many were pens? Anyone know?

regards
[/quote]

Cheers, Vlads.

2 penalties from the 5 goals this season. Both at home - vs. Everton and West Ham.
[/quote]

Thanks Binny, it's like having our very own Statto 😉

regards
 
He's been a good player for us. In as much as anyone is worth 10m he has to be regarded as a success. He works hard, he scores, he provides assists and he stays fit and loyal. Comparing him with the other 10m+ striker cum winger we signed in Ryan Babel and he's been the better buy.

If he became available I'm pretty sure there'd be plenty of interest.
 
I don't even know what it is that he does. It's like he's invented a new role. But we are almost always worse when he doesn't play. I used to think he was shit but he's instrumental in pretty much all of our forward play. He wouldn't so much be the first name I'd put on my team sheet, I'd just have the team sheets made with his name already on it.
 
seriously, how effectly would we be if we had someone with the skill and ability to simply be direct take the ball deep into the opposition half (with little or no support) and cross? I have confidence this will happen in the summer as 35m is way too much money to spend on a striker and then not play to his strengths. no offence to dirk who has been a good servent but I really hope he is sold.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44262.msg1287424#msg1287424 date=1298029250]
seriously, how effectly would we be if we had someone with the skill and ability to simply be direct take the ball deep into the opposition half (with little or no support) and cross? I have confidence this will happen in the summer as 35m is way too much money to spend on a striker and then not play to his strengths. no offence to dirk who has been a good servent but I really hope he is sold.
[/quote]

No, no, I don't want him sold, it's guys like Dirk that can give the strength in depth. As I said he was worth what we paid for him as it turns out, but as Krump says he has no particular role, he is not good enogh as a forward and produces nothing greatly constructive from wide, and I agree that currently there are few viable alternatives so he plays, but ultimately he is not good enough.

regards
 
Binny, can you like draw Rome perfectly from memory even though you only drove through it once and shit like that?
 
[quote author=Krump link=topic=44262.msg1287435#msg1287435 date=1298030887]
Binny, can you like draw Rome perfectly from memory even though you only drove through it once and shit like that?
[/quote]

He's a legend.

Much like our Ritchi from days of yore.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=44262.msg1287353#msg1287353 date=1298020761]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=44262.msg1287316#msg1287316 date=1298008641]
Yes. Also, his technical ability is terribly underrated.
[/quote]

This is a joke. right?
[/quote]

His first touch can be agricultural at times but it's nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be. It's average at worst. Clearly, his skill level with the ball is not very advanced but he's strong and very reliable with his technique in striking or heading the ball. Similarly, he's also fairly skilled at holding the ball up and holding off players. Skills you seem to take for granted but are missing in half of our attacking players (and probably half the attacking players in the PL).

Recall him missing many sitters or squandering easy chances? No, right? He always buries them when he gets a chance. You don't do that unless you have good technique.

And this is besides his work ethic and game intelligence, which are absolutely top notch.

Essentially, a player who's averaged 10 goals and 5 assists per season (over five seasons) is well worth 10 million.

That we should have more potent attacking players than him in our squad is a different question altogher. Even if we did, I strongly suspect Kuyt would have been a first team regular. Reliable players like him generally are.
 
[quote author=Binny link=topic=44262.msg1287289#msg1287289 date=1297995559]
[quote author=redhorizon link=topic=44262.msg1287165#msg1287165 date=1297979331]
he scores on an average of 8-10 goals a season(quite bad for a striker). Does anyone have any stats on him to evaluate his worth?
[/quote]

* Stats for assists may differ slightly as various media's definition differs.

2010/11 Season
League: 22 app 4 goals 5 assists
Europa: 5 app 1 goal
FA Cup: 1 app

Sum: 28 app 5 goals 5 assists

2009/10 Season
League: 37 app 9 goals 4 assists
CL: 6 app 1 goal
Europa: 7 app 1 goal 1 assist
League Cup: 1 app
FA Cup: 2 app

Sum: 53 app 11 goals 5 assists

2008/09 Season
League: 38 app 12 goals 9 assists
CL: 11 app 3 goals 2 assists
FA Cup: 2 app

Sum: 51 app 15 goals 11 assists

2007/08 Season
League: 32 app 3 goals 8 assists
CL: 12 app 7 goals 1 assist
FA Cup: 4 app 1 goal

Sum: 48 app 11 goals 9 assists

2006/07 Season
League: 34 app 12 goals 1 assist
CL: 12 app 1 goal
FA Cup: 1 app 1 goal

Sum: 47 app 14 goals 1 assist

One standout is obviously his number of appearances - averaging 50 games per season for the last 4 (When you compare that against some of our other players, really puts their app stats to shame - you know who they are >_&lt😉.

Avg: 50 app per season, 1 goal every 4 app, 1 assist every 7 app

[/quote]

Those are the same I get from Soccernet, except that he had 6 assists (and not 1) in 2006-07.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=44262.msg1287430#msg1287430 date=1298030693]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=44262.msg1287424#msg1287424 date=1298029250]
seriously, how effectly would we be if we had someone with the skill and ability to simply be direct take the ball deep into the opposition half (with little or no support) and cross? I have confidence this will happen in the summer as 35m is way too much money to spend on a striker and then not play to his strengths. no offence to dirk who has been a good servent but I really hope he is sold.
[/quote]

No, no, I don't want him sold, it's guys like Dirk that can give the strength in depth. As I said he was worth what we paid for him as it turns out, but as Krump says he has no particular role, he is not good enogh as a forward and produces nothing greatly constructive from wide, and I agree that currently there are few viable alternatives so he plays, but ultimately he is not good enough.

regards
[/quote]

kirk isn't going to be happy to be relagated to the bench. if senior staff indicated to him that he can expect to be further down the pecking order I'm sure he would move on.
 
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