Is nobody going to say it?

[Whaddapie]

Respectfully, lads, I love the way so many posters are waxing poetic about "I'd shake his hand" and "to put it all to bed", when so many of those same posters fall over themselves to dig up month, sometimes year old posts about who knew Lucas would eventually come good or who said Downing is shite first...

This place often descends into an insult competition when views differ about the correct formations or which subs to use and when, so forgive me if I choose to not believe that a single one of you would sake the hand of a man that you know to have lied about you and forever brandished you a racist in the eyes of all of your peers, when you know yourself to be innocent.

It just wouldn't happen.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48657.msg1481484#msg1481484 date=1329027238]
I asked what you would do in that exact scenario, mate.

I know that you don't think him innocent, but he obviously believes himself so... I would blank the cunt too, in that scenario.
[/quote]

I would have apologized in the first place mate. Even if he wasn't intentionally being racist and had no idea it was a racist term, Evra has taken it that way, so apologise, learn your lesson, fall on your sword and this whole thing doesn't go the way it has.

I should know.

 

[rurikbird]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48657.msg1481489#msg1481489 date=1329029395]
Respectfully, lads, I love the way so many posters are waxing poetic about "I'd shake his hand" and "to put it all to bed", when so many of those same posters fall over themselves to dig up month, sometimes year old posts about who knew Lucas would eventually come good or who said Downing is shite first...

This place often descends into an insult competition when views differ about the correct formations or which subs to use and when, so forgive me if I choose to not believe that a single one of you would sake the hand of a man that you know to have lied about you and forever brandished you a racist in the eyes of all of your peers, when you know yourself to be innocent.

It just wouldn't happen.
[/quote]

I don't buy that argument. A lot of people behave like jerks online, but are polite and "normal" in real life. Those are different environment with different rules and expectations, you can't compare those things.

 

[Ossi]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48657.msg1#msg1 date=1329029571]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48657.msg1481484#msg1481484 date=1329027238]
I asked what you would do in that exact scenario, mate.

I know that you don't think him innocent, but he obviously believes himself so... I would blank the cunt too, in that scenario.
[/quote]

I would have apologized in the first place mate. Even if he wasn't intentionally being racist and had no idea it was a racist term, Evra has taken it that way, so apologise, learn your lesson, fall on your sword and this whole thing doesn't go the way it has.

I should know.
[/quote]

It's motherfucking Evra for fucks sake. You saw what he's made of if you didnt know it before.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48657.msg1481476#msg1481476 date=1329026380]
Whether the use of the term is racist or not in his native country, it would have been evident to him after the fist time he said it to Evra that Evra was uncomfortable with it. The fact he went on to say it 6, 7, 11 times whatever means he knew full well he was antagonizing him. [/quote]

This boggles my mind. Suarez admitted to saying the term ONCE - he never changed that. Evra changed the term AND how many times it was said a few times. Yet you trust Evra based on Suarez's 'entire character' over Evra? Really?

I'm glad we didn't treat you on this site the way the FA/footy fans have treated Suarez.

 

[spider-Neil]

suarez should be applauded. he has single handidly (see what I did there 😉 ) diverted attention away from how shambolic we are on the pitch.

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=48657.msg1481489#msg1481489 date=1329029395]
Respectfully, lads, I love the way so many posters are waxing poetic about "I'd shake his hand" and "to put it all to bed", when so many of those same posters fall over themselves to dig up month, sometimes year old posts about who knew Lucas would eventually come good or who said Downing is shite first...

[/quote]

Well fucking said!

 

[kingjulian]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48657.msg1481495#msg1481495 date=1329034769]
suarez should be applauded. he has single handidly (see what I did there 😉 ) diverted attention away from how shambolic we are on the pitch.
[/quote]

Yes...a typo!

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48657.msg1481476#msg1481476 date=1329026380]
Whether the use of the term is racist or not in his native country, it would have been evident to him after the fist time he said it to Evra that Evra was uncomfortable with it. The fact he went on to say it 6, 7, 11 times whatever means he knew full well he was antagonizing him.

That coupled with his entire character leave me in no doubt about him. Others can have their own interpretation, but I know how I view him. He's a horrible piece of work in so many ways, and I have zero respect or admiration for him. That he couldn't even shake the guys hand and get on with it for the good of the club that's stood by him though all this bullshit tells me evening about the selfish little shit.
[/quote]

I can completely understand how some people find him repugnant, but I am surprised at your readiness to accept the FA's findings (and quote them as fact), particularly given the the history and character of the accuser, the inconsistencies in the report, the unequal treatment of the two players, and the obvious bias shown from the outset.

It seems you are basing much of your opinion on the integrity of the FA, which is an incredibly dubious position from which to occupy the moral high ground. I can accept much of the shit that Suarez does, albeit begrudgingly, but I would find it very difficult to forgive a racist player. However, if you consider the possibility that he is not racist, and has been strung up by the FA, then you can view his decision not to shake Evra's hand in an entirely different context.

If I'd been wrongly accused of racism, and had my name dragged through the mud over it (to the point that some of my own fans were rounding against me), you can be pretty sure that I would refuse to shake the hand of the instigator.

 

[acejmk]

[quote author=L3WISR link=topic=48657.msg1481466#msg1481466 date=1329021376]
It's not that clear but Evra didn't even go to shake the hand of Suarez...
It's kind of visible in this image

At the end of the day It's a handshake, the media hype the whole controversy far too much
[/quote]

When I first saw it I thought that it was a double bluff as in evra wanted Suarez to take his hand and Suarez was thinking the same but neither did what the other wanted. If it was me I would have done similar hand my hand out for him to take as I would not make the first move. Also most other people would do the same you would not shake the hand of someone that has just fucked you even more so if you feel you have been wrongly treated.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=48657.msg1481497#msg1481497 date=1329035902]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48657.msg1481495#msg1481495 date=1329034769]
suarez should be applauded. he has single handidly (see what I did there 😉 ) diverted attention away from how shambolic we are on the pitch.
[/quote]

Yes...a typo!
[/quote]

spelling mistakes on a football forum. OH NO!

 

[KopPoNok]

Watch the slow motion:

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2012/02/a-message-for-the-media-and-the-hypocrite-ferguson/

 

[RedZeppelin]

Fuck sake , this is getting tiring . Is it not time the club came out and said what they want to on this ? they haven't been letting it go , Kenny said the other day that Suarez should never have been banned like he was and now it's all blown up again bigger then ever with this handshake shite . What have we got to lose now ?

Look it's all well and good saying we don't give a fuck what others say or think of us but we're getting battered out there and doing nothing to defend ourselves . I mean we're pretty much being blamed for reintroducing racism to the english game . Now of course that's ridiculous but people are believing it . I mean you've got that cunt Gordon Taylor saying how the Respect campaign has been "shredded" by Suarez's actions and how this can't be ignored in their 'battle against racism" . Fuck me how over the top is this getting.

See for the simpleton world of football this is pretty cut and dry . Suarez was charged of using a racist slur , found guilty and so is a racist . Simple. Nobody cares that there was a million holes in the procedure and don't believe the defence offered . They want to believe it cause it's football (and social ?) nature to want to put the opposition down . And now with Kenny's comments in recent weeks and this handshake crap , people are stupid enough to believe this means we are supporting racism and not condoning Suarez when really they are protesting the fact that they don't believe he is guilty at all.
So somebody needs to come out and calmly explain this , highlight how shite some of the crap being said is . I would have hoped it would be kenny but it doesn't seem it is , if anything is put to him it gets his back up and he goes all defensive and well frankly comes across quite badly . Yeah yeah we don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of us .

Look i mentioned in the match thread , i could actually live with all this shite if we were backing it up with results . Infact if we were top of the league i'd probably find aspects of this quite amusing . But we're not top and we're not playing well . The club will say this doesn't impact at all on the team or distract that much but come on don't tell me it helps . You can't surely want this shit going on around the club . And yeah many might not care about our reputation but again surely it would be better not to have this going on then to have .

So yeah , this shite has to end . Now again i'm not saying roll over and take it up the jacksy but something has to be done to explain the club's and Suarez's actions and then the bottom line is we need to get back to worrying about what's happening on the field because god knows we have enough problems to sort there .

 

[Hansern]

You're just full off shite if you're saying you would have shaken his hand. EVERYONE would have done the same when faced with a person that has gotten you wrongfully banned for 8 games and ruined your name in the world of football.

The only disgrace in all this are the media and Utd fans

 

[Woland]

Anyone can see that the management are handling it terribly. No statement of defence, just backing Suarez for no given reason. They should state that they maintain that Evra lied and the hearing was a shambles.

 

[Portly]

I am wholly behind Suarez in this. In a free society, nobody should be forced to shake hands with someone else if they don't want to. This pre-match handshake was introduced by the Premier League as a PR gesture but it doen't fit with the spirit of football. It's insncere. The handshake that means something is the one at the end of the game, should players spontaneously want to do it.

 

[mark1975]

They've already stated it Krump, we made our stance clear from the off and when the ban was handed out:


"Liverpool Football Club is very surprised and disappointed with the decision of the Football Association commission to find Luis Suarez guilty of the charges against him.

"We look forward to the publication of the commission's judgment. We will study the detailed reasons of the commission once they become available, but reserve our right to appeal or take any other course of action we feel appropriate with regards to this situation.

"We find it extraordinary that Luis can be found guilty on the word of Patrice Evra alone when no-one else on the field of play - including Evra's own Manchester United team-mates and all the match officials - heard the alleged conversation between the two players in a crowded Kop goalmouth while a corner kick was about to be taken.


"The club takes extremely seriously the fight against all forms of discrimination and has a long and successful track record in work relating to anti-racist activity and social inclusion. We remain committed to this ideal and equality for all, irrespective of a person's background.

"LFC considers racism in any form to be unacceptable - without compromise. It is our strong held belief, having gone over the facts of the case, that Luis Suarez did not commit any racist act. It is also our opinion that the accusation by this particular player was not credible - certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.

"It is key to note that Patrice Evra himself in his written statement in this case said: "I don't think that Luis Suarez is racist." The FA in their opening remarks accepted that Luis Suarez was not racist.

"Luis himself is of a mixed race family background as his grandfather was black. He has been personally involved since the 2010 World Cup in a charitable project which uses sport to encourage solidarity amongst people of different backgrounds with the central theme that the colour of a person's skin does not matter; they can all play together as a team.

"He has played with black players and mixed with their families whilst with the Uruguay national side and was captain at Ajax Amsterdam of a team with a proud multi-cultural profile, many of whom became good friends.

"It seems incredible to us that a player of mixed heritage should be accused and found guilty in the way he has based on the evidence presented. We do not recognise the way in which Luis Suarez has been characterised.

"It appears to us that the FA were determined to bring charges against Luis Suarez, even before interviewing him at the beginning of November. Nothing we have heard in the course of the hearing has changed our view that Luis Suarez is innocent of the charges brought against him and we will provide Luis with whatever support he now needs to clear his name.

"We would also like to know when the FA intend to charge Patrice Evra with making abusive remarks to an opponent after he admitted himself in his evidence to insulting Luis Suarez in Spanish in the most objectionable of terms. Luis, to his credit, actually told the FA he had not heard the insult."

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=48657.msg1481509#msg1481509 date=1329039463]
I am wholly behind Suarez in this. In a free society, nobody should be forced to shake hands with someone else if they don't want to. This pre-match handshake was introduced by the Premier League as a PR gesture but it doen't fit with the spirit of football. It's insncere. The handshake that means something is the one at the end of the game, should players spontaneously want to do it.
[/quote]

What annoyed me just as much was the way it was set up, with Suarez last in the line, like it was a big fucking Hollywood-ized countdown that would have everyone on the edge of their seats knowing something would happen.

The truth is, he feels he's innocent, he didn't admit to being a racist, he admitted to using a term that in his culture isn't considered racist, so other than his own comment, the FA have hung him out to dry in a publication which is largely based on assumption and the word of Patrice Evra.

The scenes at the end of the game summed up Evra, he lapped it up, like only a scumbag would, inciting players and opposition fans, for which no punishment will be forthcoming. Fergie has been on an agenda since he held Evra's hand all the way to the referees office and has sought to take out our best player and even yesterday, had the audacity to demand that we sack him as a player. I mean, really? Would anyone else get away with that? And while the squealing little cunt went crying (again) over this, over what was ultimately an exchange of words (and you're not telling me he hasn't had to put up with worse through his career), was it ok for him to dive into a tackle on Suarez that was so reckless and misjudged, that he took his own player out?

He's a grade A lying, cheating scumbag who has pulled the racist card for the greater 'good' and to fuck us up and Fergie has utilised it to the full to derail us on one of his anti Liverpool agendas. Fergie is one of the greatest managers the game has ever seen, but he and his club continue to be undignified, petulant and they use their power in the game to the full continuously to claw away at every other club they deem a threat. Winners are winners, they do it with grace. I've got absolutely zero respect for their club, their players and more than anything, their manager. There's a reason their called the Red 'Devils'. The sold their soul years ago.

 

[RedZeppelin]

oh and Fergie can go to fuck , whatever you think of Suarez , who the fuck is he to tell us anything . I don't remember him rushing to throw cantona out of english football or saying anything about keane admitting to trying to end a player's career .

And as for suarez himself ....he's caused so much shite he needs to start coming out and explaining his side and then more importantly start playing well and banging the goals in. Whether guilty or not he's not helped anybody with this or the way he has handled it . Either come out and explain yourself and actions or shut the fuck up and concentrate on what you're paid and supported to do , playing football and scoring goals .

I'm fed up with all this shite , it's a circus we seem to have no idea on how to handle and it has to end.


*** Edit ****
Sorry i should point out i don't have a problem with Suarez not shaking Evra's hand if he truly believes he was wronged but he needs to come out and explain why as it's caused a right shite storm which doesn't help anyone .

 

[mark1975]

You know, would Fergie have taken kindly to being told he should sell Cantona? Or Ferdinand?

It's ok for a player to kungfu kick a fan, for another to dodge a drugs test, for Rooney to get away with murder time and time again. For their players to consistently put pressure on referees, while we get fined for "failing to control our players". The FA have laughed at us over all of this and their actions over the Fulham game were set up to make and example of us for all the things that United and their players constantly get away with. They're laughing at us lads, a few of us have said for years now that there's a media and FA agenda against the club, and we've been accused of paranoia for it, whether there's any truth in that, the fact is United continue to get away with more than most and it seems Fergie has free reign to say what he likes in the press without being reprimanded. How many referees has he called foul? How many clubs has he layed into and forced enquiries against for incidents? Roy Keane ended Haaland's career, there was more cowardliness in that incident than in anything that's gone on over Suarez. Just to put things in perspective, Keane got a £5000 fine and a three match ban. Paranoia?

 

[Woland]

Dalglish had every opportunity to make all these points in the post match press conference.

He bravely ran away.

 

[RedZeppelin]

yeah but why do they get away with it ? Cause they win alot that's why . And that's football , so many things are excused when you win, winning gives you power . You can debate the morals in that all day but that's the way it is . If we were winning we'd have the same power and media lining up to lick the sweat from our arses on a hot day .

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Woland link=topic=48657.msg1481519#msg1481519 date=1329041320]
Dalglish had every opportunity to make all these points in the post match press conference.

He bravely ran away.
[/quote]

Sir Robin!

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=RedZeppelin link=topic=48657.msg1481520#msg1481520 date=1329041354]
yeah but why do they get away with it ? Cause they win alot that's why . And that's football , so many things are excused when you win, winning gives you power . You can debate the morals in that all day but that's the way it is . If we were winning we'd have the same power and media lining up to lick the sweat from our arses on a hot day .
[/quote]

It's not that though, I know the media suck up to them constantly, it's the actions of Fergie and the way he abuses his position of power. I'd hate to see us doing shit like that, refusing to appear on the BBC for a few years, walking out of press conferences because of a slightly controversial question? He's a cunt.

 

[RedZeppelin]

no your points are fair enough , i'm just offering my take on how he is able to do what he does .

 

[Woland]

My worst case scenario with Kenny's tenure was that he wouldn't do very well but would hand the place over in better condition and go back to an ambassadorial role. I can't see the latter having much chance now with all this shit. Everyone hates him and thinks he's a racist. Right or wrong, perception is everything and he's doing himself and the club zero favours by not making his position clear at every opportunity.

 

[doctor_mac]

He was in a lose/lose situation. If he has come out fighting it would have been 'paranoid Kenny loses the plot' and such like. The press aren't interested in Suarez's or KK's perspective. They are on the wrong side of a binaristic struggle between good and evil, and the media has already invested a lot of print in making the case that Suarez is a demon, and Liverpool's support folly at best, latent racism at worst.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=RedStar link=topic=48657.msg1481441#msg1481441 date=1329015570]
Suarez is an embarrassment to this club, I really cannot believe that he has once again decided to drag this club through the mud with his actions. Im loathe to say this but Ferguson is right we should get rid of him because he is a selfish nasty piece of work
[/quote]

Said it yesterday straight away after the beers were still in. Whatever way you cut it Suarez put himself above the club yesterday and left us open to continuing attack just to make his point, a point that cannot be won in the eyes of the non Liverpool public. I for one am disgusted with him, he made a mockery of the team a ludicrous spectacle out of the manager and left us all, yet again , in the line of fire.

The Liverpool way is broken and soiled if that's the best we can show for it, I want him gone and im stone cold sober. Say your piece Luis explain your innocence and then go and sign for Barca or whoever will want such a thoroughly selfish nutter.

Blah Blah Blah but fergies a cunt .... YEAH .... we know.... now we'll have another good few months of him pontificating about what a bunch of cunts we are and the upsetting thing is he will be right.

Suarez is too dumb to play for LFC.

 

[RedZeppelin]

"The lesson of the last couple of months is you can never be complacent," sports minister Jeremy Hunt told the Andrew Marr programme.

"The prime minster is very concerned we don’t go back to the old days."

He added: "It's incredibly depressing. It's very unsporting behaviour.

"I'm sure the FA will look into if any rules were broken."

See this is what i am talking about . It's getting ridiculous . Some cock politician is wading in now and we're becoming the face of a social issue that is much deeper than football or fully our fault. We have to come out and properly explain why our stance is what it is cause it's been missed or not made clearly enough .

 

[Hansern]

The FA decided that QPR and Chelsea didnt have to shake hands before the game. But yesterday they seemed to think that stance wasnt necessary.
Rules were broken?? You have to shake someones hand?? Fuck off.

The only thing that is certain from all this is that my love for the game has died a little. I care much less now that football isnt getting the most headlines, as Sky showed us yesterday by talking about a handshake incident all the time regardless of a game having actually been played.