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Gerrard's face after the substitution

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[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39651.msg1082686#msg1082686 date=1270513244]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=39651.msg1082684#msg1082684 date=1270513161]
Ryan, the reason you leave Torres on is because he can finish better than any other player we have, not because of a hypothetical.

[/quote]

So then Torres should never ever be subsituted that what you're saying?
[/quote]

Really? No, I am saying when we need a goal and we have nothing else to play for but 4th because Europa isn't as big a concern we should not take our best chance at scoring a goal off. Even if he is play like cack we needed to change the team to create more chances for him. I'd wouldn't mind seeing if N'gog and Torres could strike up an understanding in the last 30 minutes that we desperately need a goal as it happens pretty much every game under Benitez.
 
Ibro, i haven't looked at your sig in a while but I'm deperate to see that team play. Its pretty much the one I've wanted all season - with Maxi and Yossi being relatively interchangeable but Yossi offering more goalthreat.
 
Torres clearly has his eye on the 'twat of the Premiership' mantle that Ronaldo has vacated, there's no debating that.

However, there's also no debating that he should have stayed on the pitch in a 100% must-win game. Especially given that the bloke brought on as his replacement has a track record for missing clear cut chances. And had karma against him obviously.
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=39651.msg1082694#msg1082694 date=1270513842]
Ibro, i haven't looked at your sig in a while but I'm deperate to see that team play. Its pretty much the one I've wanted all season - with Maxi and Yossi being relatively interchangeable but Yossi offering more goalthreat.
[/quote]

Yeah, I do like Maxi. He's got some great touches and a good football brain. I'd probably have him just ahead of Yossi right now in my ideal team, although it is based off Yossi's form on the left (which is unfair).
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39651.msg1082699#msg1082699 date=1270514385]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=39651.msg1082694#msg1082694 date=1270513842]
Ibro, i haven't looked at your sig in a while but I'm deperate to see that team play. Its pretty much the one I've wanted all season - with Maxi and Yossi being relatively interchangeable but Yossi offering more goalthreat.
[/quote]

Yeah, I do like Maxi. He's got some great touches and a good football brain. I'd probably have him just ahead of Yossi right now in my ideal team, although it is based off Yossi's form on the left (which is unfair).
[/quote]

I think in that type of team he hasn't gotten the hang of the premiership enough yet to be one of the 3 goal scoring forwards where as Yossi can be very potent when played regularly. Maxi was a very good signing though.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39651.msg1082553#msg1082553 date=1270487639]
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39651.msg1082552#msg1082552 date=1270487228]
What do you mean Torres aint injured??

And Stevie G aint miffed, he's just scratching out that dandruff..........right Spider div?
[/quote]

sticks and stones. ohhh spider div...OHH THE PAIN!

ok sigmund, does torres look angry? goes gerrard look angry? incredulous? maybe. bemused? probably, but angry? whatever. and what's torres being injuried got to do with anything? did I say he was injuried?
[/quote]


Terrier's confusing you with another Cultist. ie krissr.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39651.msg1082686#msg1082686 date=1270513244]
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=39651.msg1082684#msg1082684 date=1270513161]
Ryan, the reason you leave Torres on is because he can finish better than any other player we have, not because of a hypothetical.

[/quote]

So then Torres should never ever be subsituted that what you're saying?
[/quote]

I don't get why you're on this, mate.

It was an absolute must-win game; you dont take off your best striker.

Granted, he was playing poorly, but replacing a striker for for a weaker striker at 1-1 in a must-win game is suicidal.

I'd rathr take of a goalie and a defender and chuck everyone forward, as ludicruous as it may be.

What good is a draw at this stage anyway?
 
It's all very well making an example of an underperforming player (who also happens to be our top goal-scorer), but if the person you replace him with would not look out of place in the fucking Championship then primarily, the only thing you're doing is damaging the team and with it, our chances of winning.

It was not the time for examples, or punishments, or whatever you want to call it. Right now, we simply cannot afford the luxury of removing our best player when we're desperate for a goal. It is a luxury you tend to forego when you lose ten times in a little over 30 Premiership games. We needed to score, and our chances of doing that are significantly higher when Torres is on the pitch.
 
Torres comes off and we start creating chances. We created 1 while he was on the pitch, and 10 when he was off it. That say's to me that the substitution was a good one.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39651.msg1082722#msg1082722 date=1270518250]
Torres comes off and we start creating chances. We created 1 while he was on the pitch, and 10 when he was off it. That say's to me that the substitution was a good one.
[/quote]

Birmingham tired significantly, leaving larger gaps to exploit. That much is obvious. What's more, there was a much greater urgency in our play. We did our usual thing of doing what we should have been doing from the first minute, for the last 20 minutes. It was a rather typical Rafa performance in that the shackles were released too late to make the difference. The midfield created more chances in general after the substitution, but to suggest this was all down to the removal of Torres is folly.

And the substitution was not a good one because N'gog contrived to miss three glorious chances to win the game. Had he put one away, it would have been a good substitution. As it stands, it was just another error, from an error-prone manager.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39651.msg1082729#msg1082729 date=1270519169]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39651.msg1082722#msg1082722 date=1270518250]
Torres comes off and we start creating chances. We created 1 while he was on the pitch, and 10 when he was off it. That say's to me that the substitution was a good one.
[/quote]

Birmingham tired significantly, leaving larger gaps to exploit. That much is obvious. What's more, there was a much greater urgency in our play. We did our usual thing of doing what we should have been doing from the first minute, for the last 20 minutes. It was a rather typical Rafa performance in that the shackles were released too late to make the difference. The midfield created more chances in general after the substitution, but to suggest this was all down to the removal of Torres is folly.

And the substitution was not a good one because N'gog contrived to miss three glorious chances to win the game. Had he put one away, it would have been a good substitution. As it stands, it was just another error, from an error-prone manager.
[/quote]

What did you think of Torres' performance Del?
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39651.msg1082732#msg1082732 date=1270520321]
Pretty bad. Quite wasteful at times. Although not unlike a number of his (scoring) performances this season.
[/quote]

Being bad and having a stinker's acceptable for the most part. It happens everyone at some stage. Actually not trying, giving up when you lose it, and wandering around sulking is not acceptable.

It's growing more and more into his game.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39651.msg1082741#msg1082741 date=1270521878]
A win. Hence bringing on 3 attacking players.
[/quote]
There were useless like for like substitutions, As usual.
Absolutely pointless.

What was his point?
Im starting to think he wants to get sacked and get his 16 millions.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39651.msg1082743#msg1082743 date=1270522096]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39651.msg1082741#msg1082741 date=1270521878]
A win. Hence bringing on 3 attacking players.
[/quote]
There were useless like for like substitutions, As usual.
Absolutely pointless.

What was his point?
Im starting to think he wants to get sacked and get his 16 millions.
[/quote]

Brilliant stuff.

How is Babel for Benayoun "like-for-like"? Or Aquilani for Dirk? Do you think they're similar types of player? Or should he have brought on Cavilieri to mix it up a touch?

Or are you just going to post more clueless shite?

I'm going for the latter.
 
These substitutions dont bring any kind of tactical modifications that could disrupt the opponent's defence.
Different player, same position. like for like useless substitution.
For instance I would take Insua off and bring N'gog on.
Thats how you look for a win.
Your previous posts were silly Ryan.
Del was spot on
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39651.msg1082749#msg1082749 date=1270523591]
These substitutions dont bring any kind of tactical modifications that could disrupt the opponent's defence.
Different player, same position. like for like useless substitution.
For instance I would take Insua off and bring N'gog on.
Thats how you look for a win.
Your previous posts were silly Ryan.
Del was spot on
[/quote]

I'm not even bothering to argue with that. You haven't got a fucking clue.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39651.msg1082749#msg1082749 date=1270523591]
These substitutions dont bring any kind of tactical modifications that could disrupt the opponent's defence.
Different player, same position. like for like useless substitution.
For instance I would take Insua off and bring N'gog on.
Thats how you look for a win.
Your previous posts were silly Ryan.
Del was spot on
[/quote]

exactly i agree with you.

Ryan taking off benayoun and bringing on babel is not going for a win.

taking off a defender for an attacker is trying to go all out to win a game.

he got his team wrong and his substitution of torres was just plain stupid in a MUST win game.

not acceptable
 
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=39651.msg1082769#msg1082769 date=1270535739]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39651.msg1082749#msg1082749 date=1270523591]
These substitutions dont bring any kind of tactical modifications that could disrupt the opponent's defence.
Different player, same position. like for like useless substitution.
For instance I would take Insua off and bring N'gog on.
Thats how you look for a win.
Your previous posts were silly Ryan.
Del was spot on
[/quote]

exactly i agree with you.

Ryan taking off benayoun and bringing on babel is not going for a win.

[/quote]

I don't really have the patience or temperament to debate this with you Zlatan.
 
Ibro and Del are spot on. Rafa simply doesn't have the luxury of being able to make an example out of a player. He forego this right when decided to buy lots of shit players.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39651.msg1082772#msg1082772 date=1270536170]
Ibro and Del are spot on. Rafa simply doesn't have the luxury of being able to make an example out of a player. He forego this right when decided to buy lots of shit players.
[/quote]

Who said anything about him making the sub to "make an example out of him".

He was playing shite, his attitude stank, and we were creating nothing with him. The substitution comes, and we start creating chances. I'm surprised people are trying to complaicate this with hypotheticals, and potshots at the Manager.

Actually, I'm not.
 
I really hope O'Tomkins fucks off along with Benitez this summer, his apologist sucking of the Benitez chorizo, along with the laughable chalkboard tactics and frankly astonishing 'I know football me' stance - especially when one considers he's been wrong about virtually everything so far this season - is getting a bit tiresome

Taking off your best striker and replacing him with a fucking cabbage who then misses three sitters is retarded

That's it.
 
He should've brought N'Gog to do the legwork and left sulky Torres on to benefit.

We needed to win the game and we were beginning to dominate the game. The pressure was coming and having the two strikers would've given us a better chance.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39651.msg1082782#msg1082782 date=1270537162]
I really hope O'Tomkins fucks off along with Benitez this summer, his apologist sucking of the Benitez chorizo, along with the laughable chalkboard tactics and frankly astonishing 'I know football me' stance - especially when one considers he's been wrong about virtually everything so far this season - is getting a bit tiresome

Taking off your best striker and replacing him with a fucking cabbage who then misses three sitters is retarded

That's it.
[/quote]

Brendan, I don't quite know how to dress this up in any other way - but you know absolutely fucking ZERO about football. Zero. I could not care less whether you agree with me or not on this forum, because I don't have any respect or interest in anything you type.

I'd happily get in a debate with you about anything football-related though cos it would (A) stop me having to trudge through your montonous dirge about Lucas/Insewer/Eggnog etc on a daily basis and (B) you'd take an absolute fucking shoe'ing. And you know it.

So if you're not interested in either, then fuck off and stop trudging around these threads after me.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39651.msg1082773#msg1082773 date=1270536340]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39651.msg1082772#msg1082772 date=1270536170]
Ibro and Del are spot on. Rafa simply doesn't have the luxury of being able to make an example out of a player. He forego this right when decided to buy lots of shit players.
[/quote]

Who said anything about him making the sub to "make an example out of him".

He was playing shite, his attitude stank, and we were creating nothing with him. The substitution comes, and we start creating chances. I'm surpris people are trying to complaicate this with hypotheticals, and potshots at the Manager.

Actually, I'm not.
[/quote] Only you and Benitez believe that N'gog for Torres improves Liverpool's chances of winning a football match. Plenty of players have been afforded the odd shit. game. Christ, in Dirk's case he's been afforded shit seasons, Crouch had some horrible spells, as has yossi on the left, and don't get of started on Insua - so even if you are right, how do you explain this level of inconsistency? You speak of joe cole, well tell me which seasoned international footballer did they replace him with, and ask yourself if we were in a position to do something similar. The only thing predictable here is your ego has yet again ensured you believe you have a deeper understanding of football than everyone else. On that score I can see you and Benitez being best mates. But yet again it's led you into defending an absurd decision, which nobody in football agrees with.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39651.msg1082787#msg1082787 date=1270537910]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39651.msg1082773#msg1082773 date=1270536340]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39651.msg1082772#msg1082772 date=1270536170]
Ibro and Del are spot on. Rafa simply doesn't have the luxury of being able to make an example out of a player. He forego this right when decided to buy lots of shit players.
[/quote]

Who said anything about him making the sub to "make an example out of him".

He was playing shite, his attitude stank, and we were creating nothing with him. The substitution comes, and we start creating chances. I'm surpris people are trying to complaicate this with hypotheticals, and potshots at the Manager.

Actually, I'm not.
[/quote] Only you and Benitez believe that N'gog for Torres improves Liverpool's chances of winning a football match. Plenty of players have been afforded the odd shit. game. Christ, in Dirk's case he's been afforded shit seasons, Crouch had some horrible spells, as has yossi on the left, and don't get of started on Insua - so even if you are right, how do you explain this level of inconsistency? You speak of joe cole, well tell me which seasoned international footballer did they replace him with, and ask yourself if we were in a position to do something similar. The only thing predictable here is your ego has yet again ensured you believe you have a deeper understanding of football than everyone else. On that score I can see you and Benitez being best mates. But yet again it's led you into defending an absurd decision, which nobody in football agrees with.
[/quote]

Well I've read plenty of posts on other forums that support the Torres subsitition.

I'm really not arsed with whether people agree with me though.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39651.msg1082783#msg1082783 date=1270537302]
He should've brought N'Gog to do the legwork and left sulky Torres on to benefit.

We needed to win the game and we were beginning to dominate the game. The pressure was coming and having the two strikers would've given us a better chance.
[/quote]

Exactly. Two strikers at the end of a game you desperately need to win... imagine that.
 
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