Firmino was fucking shit. Yet again
Firmino
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Firmino was fucking shit. Yet again
Agreed.
Firmino needs to show more effort. He needs to be more direct.
Starting to lose patience with him.
Let's review Firmino's season under Klopp so far. He was injured when Klopp took over; his first start was against Bournemouth and I thought he was by far the best player on the pitch in that game. He looked like a real playmaker, controlling the passing combinations and helping the younger teammates shine as well. I wrote this after the game:
Firmino started up front vs Chelsea and did a decent job leading the line. Then the breakthrough came in a superb performance vs Man City – his energy, class, and ability to find space were top-notch in that game and the finishing was the only point of criticism. And just as it looked like he has completely settled in the team and is on the way to even better performances as his physical condition improves, his form suddenly dropped. Against Bordeaux I thought he was tired after putting such effort at Man City, so I wasn't alarmed by a quiet performance. Then in the absence of Coutinho he had to start again vs Swansea and looked physically shattered (not too surprising after starting in 3 games in 8 days), his touch was all over the place and the energy level not there. OK, still not quite a cause for concern. He got a full week's rest from playing to prepare for Newcastle and... I thought he stunk and I say this as a fan. I was especially disappointed by his lack of leadership and playmaking qualities (polar opposite to what I saw against Bournemouth); our attacking play wasn't working at all for the whole game and he didn't do enough to try to change something, to bring his teammates into play more, he was just kind of coasting through the game, which is unacceptable for a playmaker.
Against Sion it was more of the same – again, you could make an excuse about the frozen pitch or playing 2 games in one week, but it's pretty clear that after playing well or very well for 3 of his first starts under Klopp, Firmino is going through a dip in form that spans already 4 games. And it's not like he is being played out of position – Klopp is really doing everything he can to make it comfortable for him, but the player is just not delivering. Why? I really don't have an explanation... I know he is much better than this, it's strange to see him having quiet games one after another as he was one of the most consistent producers of goals and assists in the Bundesliga. Is it much colder in the North-West of England than in Hoffenheim? At times against Newcastle I thought I saw signs of a "Brazilian cold weather syndrome," but it could be something else entirely. Let's see what happens, I like this player but I'm not going to defend him blindly when the performances are so clearly below his own standard.
Firmino started up front vs Chelsea and did a decent job leading the line. Then the breakthrough came in a superb performance vs Man City – his energy, class, and ability to find space were top-notch in that game and the finishing was the only point of criticism. And just as it looked like he has completely settled in the team and is on the way to even better performances as his physical condition improves, his form suddenly dropped. Against Bordeaux I thought he was tired after putting such effort at Man City, so I wasn't alarmed by a quiet performance. Then in the absence of Coutinho he had to start again vs Swansea and looked physically shattered (not too surprising after starting in 3 games in 8 days), his touch was all over the place and the energy level not there. OK, still not quite a cause for concern. He got a full week's rest from playing to prepare for Newcastle and... I thought he stunk and I say this as a fan. I was especially disappointed by his lack of leadership and playmaking qualities (polar opposite to what I saw against Bournemouth); our attacking play wasn't working at all for the whole game and he didn't do enough to try to change something, to bring his teammates into play more, he was just kind of coasting through the game, which is unacceptable for a playmaker.
Against Sion it was more of the same – again, you could make an excuse about the frozen pitch or playing 2 games in one week, but it's pretty clear that after playing well or very well for 3 of his first starts under Klopp, Firmino is going through a dip in form that spans already 4 games. And it's not like he is being played out of position – Klopp is really doing everything he can to make it comfortable for him, but the player is just not delivering. Why? I really don't have an explanation... I know he is much better than this, it's strange to see him having quiet games one after another as he was one of the most consistent producers of goals and assists in the Bundesliga. Is it much colder in the North-West of England than in Hoffenheim? At times against Newcastle I thought I saw signs of a "Brazilian cold weather syndrome," but it could be something else entirely. Let's see what happens, I like this player but I'm not going to defend him blindly when the performances are so clearly below his own standard.
Remember when I posted all that stuff my brazilian mate told me? That he was shit, that he had a very strong sense that his agent had given the brazilian fa a massive bung to get him in the national side so that he'd get a big money transfer and all that? Well yeah. That.
Well, that doesn't explain his Budesliga performances and reputation. Which is, frankly, about all I have left to cling onto.
Yeah I remember this, and despite rarely believing stuff like that off an internet forum, I chose to believe it. Probably appealed to my pessimistic side. He does show signs of class and it is early days, but there could be something in it.
Do we not think that Jurgen Klopp can get Firmino playing well?
If anyone can, Klopp can, and I don't think he's yet had enough time to work on him to justify a final conclusion either way.
Are we going to say that about all our players? "Klopp can get him playing well"
How? He's a football manager not an alchemist. A very good one, but still just a manager. Not every single player can be turned into gold.
I've seen this an awful lot with Klopp, about how he can turn Origi into Henry, or Lucas into Gundogan, make Markovic play like Messi or whatever. How?
It's always the same when we get a new manager.
When Benitez arrived he was going to get the best out of Cheyrou, Le Tallec and the rest of the shite Houllier had hoarded. When Hodgson got here, there were even some retards saying he would get Gerrard and co playing better football by keeping thing "simple". Rodgers was going to coax out the incredible potential of our younger players and Joe Allen would be the conductor of his death by football possession game.
It's all bollocks. Jurgen klopp is not going to challenge for a title with the squad he has now. Because he isn't fucking magic. They aren't good enough and whatever incremental improvements he will make to tactics, selection, motivation and individual player performances, it won't be enough, and not all players will improve anyway.
OK, he is a bit magic. But back to the point - and this isn't really just a pop at Firmino - managers can't make every ordinary player fantastic. Even really good, slightly magic managers like Klopp. And OK, he's had some great success at Dortmund with fairly unknown players and some have them have become superstars, like Lewandowski. But to expect Klopp to take Joe Allen and Lucas and turn them into a midfield duo like Gundogan and Bender, or Adam Lallana to suddenly morph into Aubameyang....not going to happen.
Sometimes players just don't work out. And the very best example of that has played for United and Chelsea under two of the best managers in the world: Juan Veron.
We need to spend and spend big
Say it ain't so, Joe.
The tv cameras actually switched to show Klopp having a fucking conniption on the sidelines when he shit out of a 50/50 at one point.
He played like a huge shitbag & hopefully Klopp tore him a new one about it.
If thats true then yes obviously, I hope so to.
But as I've said many times we have to give our new players time to adapt.
The very least you can expect if the touch and skill is missing, is hard work.
Against Newcastle that wasnt there either, that isnt acceptable.
He'll come good though, if given time. Something we cant seem to give our new players.
The Brazilian FA story sounds way to far fetched. Even Klopp said Firmino had been one of the best players in the BL, you dont achieve that by being crap.
We need to show a bit of patience.
He doesnt seem to try hard.....his game is a bit like his shooting at the moment....zero confidence conviction and commitment.
I wont defend his performance against Newcastle but these stats below tell a story of a player that is at least working hard:
EPL forwards 15/16, Tackles+Ints per 90 mins (min 500): Firmino 5.5, Lamela 4.9, Oscar/Perez 3.5, Lallana 3.4, Willian/Sanchez 3
Which is what he also did in the Bundesliga:
EPL forwards 15/16, Tackles+Ints per 90 mins (min 500): Firmino 5.5, Lamela 4.9, Oscar/Perez 3.5, Lallana 3.4, Willian/Sanchez 3
Which is what he also did in the Bundesliga:
Please don't mention that twunt. I'm still trying to forget.
That's an interesting thought. I didn't watch him week and and week out in the Bundesliga, so I can't conclusively say whether he is or isn't, but if you look at his goals and assists stats you can see those contributions are spread out pretty consistently. If you compare with a genuinely streaky player like Robbie Keane, it doesn't seem like it's quite the case with Firmino. But let's keep an eye on this nevertheless.
That story sounds like total bollocks. There have been allegations about managers being bribed to call up a player for an appearance in a meaningless friendly and thus increasing his price by making him a "Brazil national team player." Clearly not the case with Firmino – already 11 games and 4 goals for Brazil.
He just needs encouragement. And then he'll explode.
It also doesn't explain his performance against City. It's obvious the talent is there. The biggest question mark hanging over him is whether he can do it consistently or whether he only bothers to raise his tardy arse when he feels like it, against bigger teams.
I hope , and expect, that eventually and with the right coaching, the arrival of Klopp will be all the motivation and management he clearly needs.
Fret not. He's gonna go into Robert Pires mode in his second season.
I'm not sure that works. Loads of people have been encouraging Piers Morgan to self immolate for ages now & it hasn't happened yet.
Actually it did, ages ago. Nobody can tell because Piers Morgan is one of the undead.
That would be most welcome!
The point that my mate was aggressively trying to make wasn't that Firmino wasn't ok at footy and capable of having some good games but that he was the latest in what according to him is a long list of players who have been shoe horned into the national side. Six dudes got arrested for it last year or something. He's very cynical but I dunno, he's probs got a point.
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