David Silva - the new Luis Garcia? Minus the goals

[Avmenon]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=33906.msg883230#msg883230 date=1244276366]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=33906.msg883208#msg883208 date=1244256045]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883180#msg883180 date=1244238726]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=33906.msg883132#msg883132 date=1244229918]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg882860#msg882860 date=1244205689]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=33906.msg882859#msg882859 date=1244205553]

Then you're fucking cunt if you think so. We are built to win trophies every fucking season.
[/quote]

We're obviously not. The glory days have long gone - 19 years and counting.
[/quote]

Seems our mediocrity has lowered some people's expectations of what this club stands for.
[/quote]

Tell me, a fan of 40 years, what 'this club stands for'?

I expect you'll rattle off a list of guilt trip cliches based on a golden period in our history that no longer apply in the modern game, and are mainly dragged up as justification to undermine the manager who is slowly but surely creating a new era, and with that heightend expectations.


[/quote]

40 years?

Not quite,heh.

The only thing this club stands for winning, if the manager can't win things for us, then we should try to find one who can.

Not rocket science.

Didn't even need to refer to our 'golden history'.

The fact that you think like this is very depressing, but not quite surprising.

As for 'slowly and surely creating a new era'?

I tuly hope so.

My greatest fear is of course that by the time we're actually winning titles again, you'll actually HAVE been a fan for 40 years.

As I said in my earlier post, I actually think Rafa is a good manager.

But he'll never be a great one when every mistake he makes is somehow attributable to our lack of money, the Yanks, or even Rick Parry.


[/quote]

How do you know he hasn't been a fan for 40 years?

[/quote]

He could be, but I hope not.

For someone who's been a fan for that long to be so accepting of our position now would be very sad.

 

[David Byrne]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=33906.msg883342#msg883342 date=1244293979]

For someone who's been a fan for that long to be so accepting of our position now would be very sad.
[/quote]

:'(

Bring back Souness.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=33906.msg883245#msg883245 date=1244280334]
Look, Rafa's a damn fine manager - not many here would deny that. But he's made a series of costly mistakes during his tenure which have, at the very least, slowed down our progress. Now Rafa's won his power battles there are no excuses, no scapegoat. All eyes are on him, he's never been more accountable.

The spending debate is boring as hell. He's bought some very good players for some modest fees and some fantastic players for about their value at the time (although obv Torres' value has increased). But also he's spent a shit-load of cash on unnecessary player and/or shit players. The bottom line is, he could've done worse, could've done better.

He delivered what we all wanted last year in his fifth season in charge, a genuine title challenge. As long as we maintain that level of performance will will hopefully the league in his time here. We've recently been dismissing Mourinho's 'achievement' at Inter by saying "My nan could win the league with Inter" but then ignoring the very context in which we compete in. It's all very well to say "winners expect to win" yadda, yadda, yadda, but it's a dangerous stance to take. The Premiership has 3 of the best 4 teams in Europe within in it - I can't think of a time where it's been so dominant - and this has to be taken into account when assessing a manager.

Given the fierce competition it's not fair to set a limit on when we *have* to win the league by, but obviously his position will be far more secure the sooner he wins it.



[/quote]

I don't disagree with any of that,actually.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883344#msg883344 date=1244294161]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=33906.msg883342#msg883342 date=1244293979]

For someone who's been a fan for that long to be so accepting of our position now would be very sad.
[/quote]

:'(

Bring back Souness.
[/quote]

Haha, good one.

I'm not going to get into another debate with the Rafa-worshippers tho.

 

[David Byrne]

Because you'll get all flustered and take your ball home?

 

[spider-Neil]

I thought rebel was abolutely ROASTED for his post a week ago but his point was absolutely a fair. if we are being outspent each and every season is it fair to expect the league.

 

[rage]

in everything he could compete for souness was as successful as rafa has been in 5 years.

oh and for the record souness was shit!

 

[rage]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33906.msg883351#msg883351 date=1244294955]
I thought rebel was abolutely ROASTED for his post a week ago but his point was absolutely a fair. if we are being outspent each and every season is it fair to expect the league.
[/quote]

so why haven't we still got houllier in charge if that's how we measure possibilities and manage expectation?

 

[David Byrne]

With what we've spent it's fair to expect a challenge past Xmas, which was one of my main gripes with Rafa. Although, a lot of that was down to his methods than any lack of funds. Thankfully it looks like he's finally created a philosophy that will breed consistency. Whether that's enough to win the league remains to be seen.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883350#msg883350 date=1244294873]
Because you'll get all flustered and take your ball home?


[/quote]

No, because if next season is like this season, you'll be blaming everyone but the manager.

Nothing is ever his fault, eh?

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883354#msg883354 date=1244295173]
With what we've spent it's fair to expect a challenge past Xmas, which was one of my main gripes with Rafa. Although, a lot of that was down to his methods than any lack of funds. Thankfully it looks like he's finally created a philosophy that will breed consistency. Whether that's enough to win the league remains to be seen.
[/quote]

I agree with this,actually.

 

[David Byrne]

[quote author=rage link=topic=33906.msg883352#msg883352 date=1244295025]
in everything he could compete for souness was as successful as rafa has been in 5 years.

oh and for the record souness was shit!
[/quote]

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=rage link=topic=33906.msg883353#msg883353 date=1244295087]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=33906.msg883351#msg883351 date=1244294955]
I thought rebel was abolutely ROASTED for his post a week ago but his point was absolutely a fair. if we are being outspent each and every season is it fair to expect the league.
[/quote]

so why haven't we still got houllier in charge if that's how we measure possibilities and manage expectation?
[/quote]
Exactly, fucking defeatists...
Rafa won fuck all in the last 3 years and we're entering "a new era" :🙂
An era of "challenging" for the title until April and out of the CL in quarters.
Thanks but no thanks.

 

[David Byrne]

I love how the goalposts are always changing. First it was the lack of a title challenge and now it's no trophies in 3 seasons, despite the obvious signs of progression domestically.

I don't ever remember Houllier's teams genuinely challenging for the league or being reguarly in the mix in the latter stages of the CL, which many take for granted because of how good we've been in that particular comp in Rafa's time here. And Houllier didn't have the financial power of Abramovich to deal with.

But then I'm not a spoilt brat nu fan who demands success at the expense of all logic.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883369#msg883369 date=1244296202]
I love how the goalposts are always changing. First it was the lack of a title challenge and now it's no trophies in 3 seasons, despite the obvious signs of progression domestically.

I don't ever remember Houllier's teams genuinely challenging for the league or being reguarly in the mix in the latter stages of the CL, which many take for granted because of how good we've been in that particular comp in Rafa's time here. And Houllier didn't have the financial power of Abramovich to deal with.

But then I'm not a spoilt brat nu fan who demands success at the expense of all logic.
[/quote]
We finished 2nd and quarter finals in 2002.
We "challenged" Arsenal because they had games in hand.
Oh wait, thats exactly the same as this season!
For the record I wanted Houiller to be sacked in 2003.

 

[rage]

[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883360#msg883360 date=1244295463]
[quote author=rage link=topic=33906.msg883352#msg883352 date=1244295025]
in everything he could compete for souness was as successful as rafa has been in 5 years.

oh and for the record souness was shit!
[/quote]



[/quote]

go on then take a picture next time yr head is up rafa's arse and post that. if he doesn't win the title soon he can fuck off. people like u would still have us playing n the second division with your apologist bollocks.

he clearly has 40 odd million to spend this summer - the question is has he got the balls to spend it quality over quantity or indeed whether he can attract quality

 

[David Byrne]

[quote author=rage link=topic=33906.msg883374#msg883374 date=1244296617]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883360#msg883360 date=1244295463]
[quote author=rage link=topic=33906.msg883352#msg883352 date=1244295025]
in everything he could compete for souness was as successful as rafa has been in 5 years.

oh and for the record souness was shit!
[/quote]



[/quote]

go on then take a picture next time yr head is up rafa's arse and post that. if he doesn't win the title soon he can fuck off. people like u would still have us playing n the second division with your apologist bollocks.

he clearly has 40 odd million to spend this summer - the question is has he got the balls to spend it quality over quantity or indeed whether he can attract quality
[/quote]

He's gonna blow...

 

[David Byrne]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=33906.msg883373#msg883373 date=1244296570]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883369#msg883369 date=1244296202]
I love how the goalposts are always changing. First it was the lack of a title challenge and now it's no trophies in 3 seasons, despite the obvious signs of progression domestically.

I don't ever remember Houllier's teams genuinely challenging for the league or being reguarly in the mix in the latter stages of the CL, which many take for granted because of how good we've been in that particular comp in Rafa's time here. And Houllier didn't have the financial power of Abramovich to deal with.

But then I'm not a spoilt brat nu fan who demands success at the expense of all logic.
[/quote]
We finished 2nd and quarter finals in 2002.
We "challenged" Arsenal because they had games in hand.
Oh wait, thats exactly the same as this season!
For the record I wanted Houiller to be sacked in 2003.
[/quote]

We could get someone else in but I suspect you'd want him sacked if we lost in pre season. You strike me as that kinda guy.

 

[Le Chacal]

[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883376#msg883376 date=1244297125]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=33906.msg883373#msg883373 date=1244296570]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33906.msg883369#msg883369 date=1244296202]
I love how the goalposts are always changing. First it was the lack of a title challenge and now it's no trophies in 3 seasons, despite the obvious signs of progression domestically.

I don't ever remember Houllier's teams genuinely challenging for the league or being reguarly in the mix in the latter stages of the CL, which many take for granted because of how good we've been in that particular comp in Rafa's time here. And Houllier didn't have the financial power of Abramovich to deal with.

But then I'm not a spoilt brat nu fan who demands success at the expense of all logic.
[/quote]
We finished 2nd and quarter finals in 2002.
We "challenged" Arsenal because they had games in hand.
Oh wait, thats exactly the same as this season!
For the record I wanted Houiller to be sacked in 2003.
[/quote]

We could get someone else in but I suspect you'd want him sacked if we lost in pre season. You strike me as that kinda guy.

[/quote]
Rafa has been in here for 5 years my friend, not 5 games.
He has to win the league next season.
If I were him and didnt win the league after 6 years, Id resign.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=33906.msg883377#msg883377 date=1244297259]

If I were him and didnt win the league after 6 years, Id resign.
[/quote]

If only Ferguson took your advice.

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=Tinto link=topic=33906.msg883379#msg883379 date=1244297961]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=33906.msg883377#msg883377 date=1244297259]

If I were him and didnt win the league after 6 years, Id resign.
[/quote]

If only Ferguson took your advice.
[/quote]

There's actually no coming back from that. Touché.

 

[Avmenon]

Depends on what happens in the 7th year.

 

[Squiggles]

This will be his sixth season in charge.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=33906.msg883381#msg883381 date=1244299939]
Depends on what happens in the 7th year.
[/quote]

Yeah, I was thinking that there isn't much longer before we can use Ferguson taking seven years as a defense of the manager.

It's just unreasonable to say title next year or the sack as that's no way to run a football club... not even one like Real that can spend 100m pounds in transfers. Ambravomich seems to be have taken on board that stability is vital.

There will/may come a point when it will be obvious to all that Rafa has taken our club as far as he could and it may be better if he and our club went their separate ways but we haven't reached that point yet.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Tinto link=topic=33906.msg883386#msg883386 date=1244301826]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=33906.msg883381#msg883381 date=1244299939]
Depends on what happens in the 7th year.
[/quote]

Yeah, I was thinking that there isn't much longer before we can use Ferguson taking seven years as a defense of the manager.

It's just unreasonable to say title next year or the sack as that's no way to run a football club... not even one like Real that can spend 100m pounds in transfers. Ambravomich seems to be have taken on board that stability is vital.

There will/may come a point when it will be obvious to all that Rafa has taken our club as far as he could and it may be better if he and our club went their separate ways but we haven't reached that point yet.
[/quote]

Exactly.

 

[Mystic]

Don't suppose we could keep this thread about David Silva? I really don't care for these Rafa rants, i do care about Silva though. Make your own thread.

 

[Avmenon]

He's not coming,unfortunately.

 

[Shadey]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=33906.msg883399#msg883399 date=1244306425]
He's not coming,unfortunately.
[/quote] R Madrid unfortunately..

 

[SummerOnions]

how concrete is that?

 

[Mystic]

Indeed, anything more than that Rumored link?

Silva to Madrid just doesn't seem right.