Danny Ings and Origi
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I would bet my house that the only games Lawerenson has ever seen Origi play are the 3-4 preseason games this year.
I don't think many have "written him off". Well I haven't I don't think.
But it's fair to judge him on what we've seen, which is a really underwhelming set of games in which he's looked a mile off the pace.
Based on the Adelaide game,
Origi - looked terrible, no confidence, poor touch, terrible positioning, no drive, weak on the ball. Unless he improves drastically from that showing I don't see him getting much game time all. The only positive attribute I saw was his pace but even that wasn't lightening.
Ings - came on his movement was much better than Origi but considering what he was up against I expected a bit more. He took his goal very well and worked hard which considering I think he'll be an impact sub bodes well. I think he will do well here because of his work ethic and he knows how to put away chances. I see our midfield creating a lot of chances for our strikers this year so he will bag a lot.
Origi - looked terrible, no confidence, poor touch, terrible positioning, no drive, weak on the ball. Unless he improves drastically from that showing I don't see him getting much game time all. The only positive attribute I saw was his pace but even that wasn't lightening.
Ings - came on his movement was much better than Origi but considering what he was up against I expected a bit more. He took his goal very well and worked hard which considering I think he'll be an impact sub bodes well. I think he will do well here because of his work ethic and he knows how to put away chances. I see our midfield creating a lot of chances for our strikers this year so he will bag a lot.
Yep, I would make that bet too. Well, maybe he saw the World Cup games. But it sure sounds like he's basing his judgement of the player mostly on how Origi looked during the pre-season.
Feels like Yesil deserves as much of a chance as Origi to be 4th striker.
Origi is going to need some time to build up his confidence after last season in France. He is a small fish in a big pond now.
All the pressure will be off once Reus joins...
All the pressure will be off once Reus joins...
I said early on that I thought Origi looked very raw and was shouted down. I still think he looks very raw. I haven't followed his career at all, so I don't know what he looked like when we actually signed him, but I can't believe he was any less competent than now, so I assume there's a major confidence issue there. To give him some credit, he WAS at least getting into the right areas a few times in his last match, but for too much of the time he still didn't seem to be sure what he was supposed to be doing, and that can easily make a player seem really flat-footed and listless. With Coutinho in the side he'll get more balls to run on to, which appears to be his preference, and he looks (so far) like he'll impress more away from home on the counter attack, but generally I'm still waiting to see him move beyond N'Gog-like ineffectualness. If Benteke turns out to be great and Sturridge comes back then I can't see Origi making many starts, but he needs to play a lot to progress - he can't be stuck on the bench for ages.
i doubt he is going to make many starts and that was probably not the intention. He's young and is another Markovic-like 'project'. He's certainly #4 in what should be our strikers for this season and Ings, a proven PL striker, will certainly be preferred to Origi on the bench and in PL games. However I do see Origi seeing pitch time, either starting or from the bench, in Europe.
I really don't know what the intention is/was. You don't expend as much time as the club did last January to cut short his time on loan if the plan was to leave him for the future. Even given the striker shortages of the time, that doesn't add up.
It doesn't help the kid that he arrived to such an OTT welcome from Rodgers:
“For me, he can be one of the most exciting talents in world football. I genuinely believe that. You see a lot of good players, but this kid – for 19 years of age – he burst on to the scene at the World Cup, but we’d tracked him before that, we’d seen him as a young player playing in the youth internationals. He has everything to be world class.”
I don't think he'll be sitting it out Macca, I think he'll get appearances from the bench and lesser games in cup competition, which is right really as the best form of easing him into the side. Any player his age would undergo the same introduction at any other big club. He has all the attributes to learn from Benteke and be a possibly more rounded/suited player in terms of strength and pace, but he has to learn the ropes like any youngster.
It's pointless predicting what he'll get, we brought in Markovic last season and Ibe was more or less forgotten for a few months when he went on loan, he came back and made an even bigger impact, so Rodgers isn't shy of awarding form over transfer fee/status.
Not good enough for him. He needs a regular run of games, which seeing as he doesn't seem good enough yet for the first team means a short loan. He's not going to either find form or recover it by getting the odd run out in the cup.
It works both ways, no one knows what type of character he is and what he responds to, some young players sink just as easily under too much pressure. Given his hit and miss nature at the moment, it's hardly ideal to be throwing him in for games on end, missing chances and having the crowd on his back. It's much easier to come on against tired legs and make smaller contributions to help build confidence (and support).
He had a regular run of games last season in France, had the media and fans on his back and has turned up here with his confidence shot to pieces.
He's quick and has an eye for goal so I see zero harm with him being a super sub to stretch teams in the last 20 Minutes or so and give him the chance to play himself into a starting position . he's young afterall.
Itll be competitive , that's for sure . ings,benteke, origi and eventually sturridge all going for it. I suppose balotelli may well still be around too .
Rodgers needs to work out who's in his A team pretty quickly ..
Itll be competitive , that's for sure . ings,benteke, origi and eventually sturridge all going for it. I suppose balotelli may well still be around too .
Rodgers needs to work out who's in his A team pretty quickly ..
Well on that logic, a run of games will either shoot his confidence to pieces - in which case he's already finished - or he needs a run of games in a better, more positive, context to put his confidence back together. But you don't recover your confidence by playing bits and pieces. Ask Lambert, a man who arrived here from a fecking World Cup!
There was more to it with Lambert though, he came into a system that didn't even try to accommodate him. You're pretty much saying "it won't work", the only evidence we do have is that he played a full season in France last year, struggled and now looks a shade of the player who played in the same World Cup Lambert did.
No, I'm not, what I am saying is:
1. He doesn't look ready for the first team
and
2. He needs a run of games to get ready for the first team.
You're just so damned obsessed with seeing illegal doubts everywhere you're slowly going bonkers. reel it in mate.
Saying he's shite now doesn't mean he'll he shite forever.
But based on what we've seen and his record last year for Lille, he's definitely shite now. I don't understand the argument. Nobody could say he's been good. Nobody has also written him off forever.
But based on what we've seen and his record last year for Lille, he's definitely shite now. I don't understand the argument. Nobody could say he's been good. Nobody has also written him off forever.
I'm not going bonkers at all, I've given you a solid example of why I think it won't work (throwing him in), and now I'm getting told to reel it in because I don't agree?
For the record, you opened your post asserting that easing him in is "not going to work for him", all I'm asking is based on what?
For the record, you opened your post asserting that easing him in is "not going to work for him", all I'm asking is based on what?
I'm not sure who this is directed at? I said he suffered last season and had everyone on his back because he wasn't ready, now Macca is saying give him a run of games. It seems counter productive if last season is any evidence.
Will be interesting to see how Rodgers uses Origi this season, seeing as Benteke, Sturridge, Ings, Balotelli, Firmino, Yesil - all look to offer more currently to the first team than him.
I'd get him back out on loan myself, to a more competitive league/team.
Possibly a good one for the future, but I'm not sure he should be making any starting lineups, or getting on the the bench over any of the above.
I'd get him back out on loan myself, to a more competitive league/team.
Possibly a good one for the future, but I'm not sure he should be making any starting lineups, or getting on the the bench over any of the above.
Based on the many, many precedents of 'easing in' players who already lack confidence, show no obvious maturity in finishing or positional sense and have just arrived after a wretched season abroad. What's YOUR justification for believing so avidly that it WILL work, you whining, whinging, weeping overgrown cheerleader?
Not you, but I'm hearing it said that Origi has been written off on here, which is just a case of lazily twisting mine and other peoples words. Judging by how off the pace he is compared to the rest of our squad, I'd suggest loaning him back out before the end of the window.
I'd keep him rather than sending him on loan. With Sturridge's injury concerns all we are is a Benteke injury or suspension away from being low on strikers again (I'm assuming that Lambert, Borini and Balotelli will be moved on). Having said that I haven't been overly impressed by him so far and even in the other games I've seen him play for Lille or Belgium.
His anticipation around the penalty area and willingness to gamble where the ball is going to be suggests he's not a natural goalscorer and i'm not sure that sort of thing can be coached into a player. Most of the time when a cross is about to be put in he just seems to stand on the penalty spot waiting for something to happen. Also his finishing is pretty average.
Early days but i think the best he can hope for is Europa league games and substitute appearances to begin with and the lack of pressure that goes with being 3rd or 4th choice may suit him.
His anticipation around the penalty area and willingness to gamble where the ball is going to be suggests he's not a natural goalscorer and i'm not sure that sort of thing can be coached into a player. Most of the time when a cross is about to be put in he just seems to stand on the penalty spot waiting for something to happen. Also his finishing is pretty average.
Early days but i think the best he can hope for is Europa league games and substitute appearances to begin with and the lack of pressure that goes with being 3rd or 4th choice may suit him.
The way I see it, him and Ings are fighting it out to for subs appearances, and the occasional start. It's healthy to have two young players doing that. I'm expecting next to nothing from either, but hopefully at least one of them will end up being productive for us this season.
The issue for me is Ings is clearly more developed and I think will then take up the majority of those sub appearances, which would leave Origi scratching his arse. I guess it all depends on the set up and the formation, but right now it looks a likely scenario. Rodgers hasn't got time to play the 'long game' with anyone, which could stifle his progress.
Is it healthy when they cost the best part of 20M?
I know Ings and Origi aren't directly comparable to the likes of Coates, Wilson and Alberto but does this trend of taking players who are breaking through and accelerating their development by getting games week in, week out in a competitive environment and restricting to them to training and the odd cup game in a patched up team ever yield results?
Do we think Markovic (read: our 20M investment in Markovic) had a good year last year?
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