Daniel Agger

[Ryan]

Has been fit and injury-free all season, is in the peak of his career, and is playing every week.

He's been largely shite all season long. Continually at fault for goals, being caught out of position, and not at all good enough in 1v1's.

Cos he's good on the ball and looks the part, people mistake this for him being a cultured ball-playing centre back. The curse of modern day defenders; cunts that can't defend. The league's full of them; Vermaelen, Cahill, Luiz, etc. Well Agger is that prototype, and he is continually continually costing us goals.

He is not a top class centre back. Not even close.

 

[Fabio]

I........... Won't argue too much

 

[Red_Water]

He isn't consistently top class. When he is top-class is when someone alongside him is talking him through a game. Skittles and Agger are not suited to play alongside one another. Neither is dominant in the air, they're not great talkers/organizers etc

 

[LadyRed]

Any defender in the world, no matter how good he may be can loose out when he's caught one on one. I've mentioned on a few thread today, we're far too soft through midfield which leaves our centre backs exposed, they get drawn out and caught one on one. No defender looks strong in that position. Feel free to name any who you think do.

 

[Ryan]

Don't get hung up on the 1v1 issue LR. 1v1 can be you being assigned responsibility for an attacker or forward at any shape or moment of the game too. He's made many many mistakes this season in that aspect.

 

[Modo]

Downhill ever since this guy...

 

[Delinquent]

Has been fit and injury-free all season, is in the peak of his career, and is playing every week.

He's been largely shite all season long. Continually at fault for goals, being caught out of position, and not at all good enough in 1v1's.

Cos he's good on the ball and looks the part, people mistake this for him being a cultured ball-playing centre back. The curse of modern day defenders; cunts that can't defend. The league's full of them; Vermaelen, Cahill, Luiz, etc. Well Agger is that prototype, and he is continually continually costing us goals.

He is not a top class centre back. Not even close.

Indeed. Skrtel has also been very error prone this season, and yet he only gets dropped when Carragher goes public about wanting to play more football.

Coincidence?

Whatever the case, I think the team needs Carragher at the moment, and I was sure when people were writing him off that he would have a part to play in our season yet.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

To completely get caught under the ball for arsenal's first tonight was amateur defending. I don't buy that he can't play with skrtel though. They were good together last season.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Downhill ever since this guy...

I don't necesarilly agree modo. We do miss him, but he was a bit part player in his last few seasons here and we were still fairly good at the back.

 

[Modo]

I don't necesarilly agree modo. We do miss him, but he was a bit part player in his last few seasons here and we were still fairly good at the back.

He was a bit part player in his last season and imo, we haven't managed to replace him.
Anyway...back to Agger is shit.

 

[LadyRed]

Which one of our defenders have looked good this season? Which partnership looks resilient?

None of them. Like I said, exposed, all the time. Joe Allen in that deep role playing in front of them is weak and gets pushed off the ball like a rag doll, Lucas looks slightly better but still gets over run, Gerrard lacks the discipline and rightly as he sees the need for him to be further up. I can't even comment on Shelvey and Hendo isn't a sitting DM. Meaning we're always soft through the middle and people can get at the centre backs.

Admittedly there have been a lot of individual errors from our defenders this season, but Agger isn't alone, they've all been culpable.

And having a shit keeper behind them doesn't help much either.

 

[kingjulian]

LadyRed makes sense. We can talk about defenders after we discuss the big fucking white elephant in the room...the defenders simply have too much to do every game, and it is no wonder that some of it costing us goals.

 

[Red_Water]

Which one of our defenders have looked good this season? Which partnership looks resilient?

None of them. Like I said, exposed, all the time. Joe Allen in that deep role playing in front of them is weak and gets pushed off the ball like a rag doll, Lucas looks slightly better but still gets over run, Gerrard lacks the discipline and rightly as he sees the need for him to be further up. I can't even comment on Shelvey and Hendo isn't a sitting DM. Meaning we're always soft through the middle and people can get at the centre backs.

Admittedly there have been a lot of individual errors from our defenders this season, but Agger isn't alone, they've all been culpable.

And having a shit keeper behind them doesn't help much either.

The problem before Agger, Skittles, Reina (prays this is ok to say) and our full-backs is how they all play together as a unit and what coaching is taking place - I can't for the life of me see any pattern to our defensive play. Our full-backs don't stop the ball being knocked into the box, Lucas is not fit and he is the only true DM we have at the club as a result there is no pressing in front of the 2 centre backs.

It would be interesting to get a view on what BR's approach to the defensive side of the game is other than the 'retain the ball' mantra.

 

[refugee]

Said this in the match thread:

defence is a major cause for concern. I don't think the individual players are the problem (or at least not the main problem). Our organisation at set pieces is nothing short of disastrous, Rodgers appears to have set the team up with some sort of man marking / zonal hybrid (which is a decent system when done right) and it is being performed really badly. Whoever is coaching the defence really needs to get their act together, the defence consisted of the same players last year and we are a lot worse.

Sitting back when we get a lead (or in general cf the United game) is also a major cause for concern. Carra did his best to get everyone to move forward, but we really struggled to get the ball forward and retain it when we scored the second.

Also I want a good defensive midfielder with some pace, although I'm not holding my breath.

 

[keniget]

The disturbing thing is that we're being linked to defenders like Williams and Fazio so if that's the quality we're looking at to replace the likes of Agger and Skrtel, I can't see things getting any better.

 

[Farkmaster]

Someone asked which one we should get rid of Skrtel or Agger. I think we may well have to get rid of both. Agger seems to be overvalued by others, so I'm up for getting rid of him first.

That said, I do rate Agger to some extent, just not to some of the valuations we've seen. He has obvious qualities, and I think most defenders would look poor in our current system of play, especially in a game like today.

There are a host of defenders that would look better in set pieces, but so have the players we have, under different management.

 

[rurikbird]

Has been fit and injury-free all season, is in the peak of his career, and is playing every week.

He's been largely shite all season long. Continually at fault for goals, being caught out of position, and not at all good enough in 1v1's.

Cos he's good on the ball and looks the part, people mistake this for him being a cultured ball-playing centre back. The curse of modern day defenders; cunts that can't defend. The league's full of them; Vermaelen, Cahill, Luiz, etc. Well Agger is that prototype, and he is continually continually costing us goals.

He is not a top class centre back. Not even close.

Which "ball-playing" defender in world football do you rate, Ryan? Because I've seen the likes of Pique or Hummels badly at fault for goals too.

And sometimes even top players have mediocre seasons. I agree that our defense needs improvement, but I still think Agger has the talent, skill and experience to be a top player.

 

[Wilko7]

Our defence has missed Andy Carroll when defending set pieces this season.

 

[mark1975]

He isn't consistently top class. When he is top-class is when someone alongside him is talking him through a game. Skittles and Agger are not suited to play alongside one another. Neither is dominant in the air, they're not great talkers/organizers etc

Yet he had Carragher next to him yesterday whom has clearly found some good form and has had us looking more organised than we've looked all season as a unit. Agger still made mistakes, so this idea of him having someone more aggressive and vocal alongside him doesn't really wash.

 

[mark1975]

Which one of our defenders have looked good this season? Which partnership looks resilient?

None of them. Like I said, exposed, all the time. Joe Allen in that deep role playing in front of them is weak and gets pushed off the ball like a rag doll, Lucas looks slightly better but still gets over run, Gerrard lacks the discipline and rightly as he sees the need for him to be further up. I can't even comment on Shelvey and Hendo isn't a sitting DM. Meaning we're always soft through the middle and people can get at the centre backs.

Admittedly there have been a lot of individual errors from our defenders this season, but Agger isn't alone, they've all been culpable.

And having a shit keeper behind them doesn't help much either.

Individual errors isn't down to being exposed though, the goal came from a set piece after all. I do agree our defense has been more exposed this season, but then maybe it's opened our eyes to how good they actually are after being over protected for years by a flat bank of four in midfield. I do agree we need a DM, but that's not forcing errors, it's asking more of the defenders and they're coming up short.

 

[mark1975]

defence is a major cause for concern. I don't think the individual players are the problem (or at least not the main problem). Our organisation at set pieces is nothing short of disastrous, Rodgers appears to have set the team up with some sort of man marking / zonal hybrid (which is a decent system when done right) and it is being performed really badly. Whoever is coaching the defence really needs to get their act together, the defence consisted of the same players last year and we are a lot worse..

I don't really buy into this, we looked vulnerable from set pieces under Rafa a fair bit, and after losing Sami even more so. We looked even more vulnerable last season under Kenny, and that was with Clarke coaching. I do think Rodgers needs some help defensively, or he needs to compromise his set up until he gets the players, but I don't think the issues are solely down to organisation. Yesterday was the most organised i've seen us look in a while and we still gave away two soft goals.

 

[dmishra]

I think our defensive issues are primarily down to playing personnel as opposed to poor management. The midfield on the other hand...

 

[Insignificance]

The big issue here is that every defender in the world would struggle under the way we play. yesterday they were given zero chance to reorganize and structure themselves before they were overrunned by Arsenal again. And the reason for this is that we try to take the ball at our five yard line and start passing our way with short passes. Inside our own fucking third of the field. Every single time. Arsenal could park their players around our box, and we tried to play our way through them. It is fucking insane. How do you defend against that? Every attack Arsenal started started within our third of the field. And that is not this game alone. It is an insane system!

 

[mark1975]

The big issue here is that every defender in the world would struggle under the way we play. yesterday they were given zero chance to reorganize and structure themselves before they were overrunned by Arsenal again. And the reason for this is that we try to take the ball at our five yard line and start passing our way with short passes. Inside our own fucking third of the field. Every single time. Arsenal could park their players around our box, and we tried to play our way through them. It is fucking insane. How do you defend against that? Every attack Arsenal started started within our third of the field. And that is not this game alone. It is an insane system!

but we didn't concede from that, I agree it's a problem but we conceded a soft goal from a setpiece, and not for the first time. That's got nothing to do with getting caught high up the pitch and failing to regroup. When we gave away that free kick we had numbers back too. We gave away soft setpieces all night.

 

[Insignificance]

but we didn't concede from that, I agree it's a problem but we conceded a soft goal from a setpiece, and not for the first time. That's got nothing to do with getting caught high up the pitch and failing to regroup. When we gave away that free kick we had numbers back too. We gave away soft setpieces all night.

yeah, but giving away soft setpieces around your box comes from letting the oppostion group around that box. We know that it is one thing they are good at, and we let them play that to the full, especially in second half.

Reducing Luis Suarez to a second left back? We knew that one thing could hurt them, and that was putting pressure on their weak defence. Not placing our wide men higher up in the field and give the man on the ball an alternative to look for higher up was insane. I couldnt believe my own eyes when we narrowed in our passing across our own 16 yard line. I have never ever seen anything like that before. And I have seen plenty of football.

 

[the_khl]

Which "ball-playing" defender in world football do you rate, Ryan? Because I've seen the likes of Pique or Hummels badly at fault for goals too.

And sometimes even top players have mediocre seasons. I agree that our defense needs improvement, but I still think Agger has the talent, skill and experience to be a top player.

That's a good question mate and one I doubt you'd get an answer to.

 

[the_khl]

There've been an unreal amount of games this Season (unreal when you're such a big fan as I am) where I've been underwhelmed with bits and parts of Agger's defending.

Last night was yet an error. He simply misjudged the timing of the ball. Not good enough. He also made an uncanny rash challenge in the first half and played imo his worst game in a Liverpool shirt earlier this Season away to Stokes. Otherwise he actually had a rather good game last night, but obviously clouded by his errors.

Having said that he's also one of few players in the team we can actually trust not to give the ball away easily, and one who can offer a little composure. An ability we lack loads.
He's also got a great ability to move the ball upfield, either with pretty crisp passing (not the long ones, they are more hit and miss, no the semi-long passes from defense to attack - one actually laid the fundament to our first goal last night), he's often good when 1o1 (don't quite get you there Ryan) and is - normally - a good reader of the game.

In other words overall he's bringing more to the table than any other central defender we've got, and in my opinion only few defenders in the world match him, when it comes to being a ball-playing defender. Agger has got the ability, like only few others in the team, to play with the best without looking caught out.

That's not the kind of player we should be looking to get rid off. Imo.

The reason why I believe it has got to be either him or Skrtel playing in our current setup, is that they are actually quite similiar. I know posters have time and time again (myself included) been charmed by Martin's hard as nails looks and placed him in that no-nonsense defender bracket, but he's actually a more cultured defender than a hard man. He can pass, he's not bad on the ball, he's got decent pace but he often loses physical battles and rarely dominates the air. A bit like Agger.

We can't accomodate them both in the current setup when we offer as little cover in midfield as being the case.To much pressure for two cultured defenders to handle.

Fair enough if people believe Skrtel's the one we should keep and sell Agger on, I'd just kindly disagree then.

 

[Insignificance]

To blame Agger for the goal is just as meaningless as to blame Reina for the second. We let them attack us from both sides constantly, and to expect anything than a couple of goals against when we let them do the thing they do better than anyone is naive at best. We got away with only two goals yesterday, and we could easily have been well hammered. the set up is wrong, and this is down to the manager, and not this or that defender.

But having one agenda is the easiest trick in the book. It is just to pinpoint every mistake one player do (and they all do them) blatant ignore what they bring to the team or the game, and there you go. Can it be held against you that he did a mistake? No. Do you have to highlight the good parts of the game? No. Win Win for someone who wants to have a certain agenda.

 

[hmmmmm1]

That 18 million offer from city looking good now.

Hindsight eh!

 

[refugee]

To blame Agger for the goal is just as meaningless as to blame Reina for the second. We let them attack us from both sides constantly, and to expect anything than a couple of goals against when we let them do the thing they do better than anyone is naive at best. We got away with only two goals yesterday, and we could easily have been well hammered. the set up is wrong, and this is down to the manager, and not this or that defender.

Completely agree. We invited them to attack us, and something had to give eventually given the sustained pressure.