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Crystal Palace post match

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You really can't call how many points we will get from that list. What's our average points per game without playing the top 7? It will probably be something similar. I reckon we will get maybe 7/8 points from those 4 games. I really don't think we will get top 4 now.

The good thing is that 3 of those games are against teams that are "safe" in terms of relegation when we play them. And we saw against Stoke and WBA that this can have an effect.
Boro have been relegated when they come to Anfield.
 
How have we allowed ourselves to be in a position where we seriously have no options? What the fuck were they doing in the January window when it was clear as fuck we needed a couple more players?

We have blown 4th place, we have too many poor-to-average players who somehow manage to play every week and it's the same old mentally weak chokers who shit their pants again and again. It was so predictable yesterday - score a worldie then miss sitters before caving in with a breakaway and a set piece. Seen that film more often than Star Wars.

Bunch of young kids on the bench who just make up the numbers because they rarely come on. We are left with a centre midfield that is so slow and ponderous and just the opposite of the side who started the season.
 
Whilst the above from Larry was pretty humorous and had quite a bit of merit, I'd like to add some perspective.

Firstly, this thread is fucking painful. We won 2 in a row, and seriously no one gave a fuck. We lose, and everyone's here moaning about Klopp not being good enough, Lucas, Firmino, Origi, etc etc. I'm not exaggerating this - there are people on here delighted that they're able to wheel out their complaints, gripes, overwrought analogies, and criticisms about some of our players. What's fucking wrong with you? Why do you take greater comfort in criticism? We were pretty poor today - no doubt about it, but the glee with which some of you lot enjoy such negativity is frankly weird.

I know we oscillate from week to week, but I don't think anyone got too carried away after beating West Brom away, so must we go over the top after losing to Crystal Palace?

They ventured forward twice for the game and scored. Good for them, and Allardyce was right - they were tactically astute. Really though, Coutinho should have buried the game with his second half chance, and we should be able to manage a 1-0 lead better - so they shouldn't have had a sniff. Deja vu of course, and no less frustrating.

We have 66 points with 4 games to play - could finish up with 78, we'll likely get what, 74, 75? I dunno, something like that.

We finished last season with 62 points. Finished with that. 62. I argued at the start of the year - in the 'where will we finish?' thread - that given the quality of teams around us positions could be difficult to gauge, but we should look to improve our points tally and that that was the measure for assessing improvement. We already have, and we'll likely improve by up to 16 points year over year. That's significant.

Sure we lose to Crystal Palace, and Bournemouth, and every other mid-lower league dross. It's shit, and extremely fucking annoying. Watching us probe aimlessly today, whilst hoping that Firmino or Coutinho could conjure something out of their arse was painful. Hope is not a strategy. And we need better players - in central defence, full back, midfield, up front, etc. It's acknowledged, and unarguable. But we're a far better side than this time 12 months ago, we can still finish in the top 4, and with the right signings we'll improve again.

I'm no fucking superfan, but the reactionary bollocks in here is nauseating. What were your expectations? That we'd win every week? That we wouldn't play fucking shit? It happens - and bar Chelsea and Spurs - it happens to everyone of our rivals, all of whom in my view have a better side than us. You can debate whether it was the manager's prerogative not to add to the squad or not, but in my view arguing whether he's a good manager or not is kneejerking to the extreme. Did you watch us last year? There was a reason why we finished with 62 fucking points. Everton are gonna beat that this year for fuck's sake.

We've got Watford, Southampton, West Ham and Boro left. Take 10 points or better from that and we'll have 75+ points, and have enjoyed a terrific year.
Good post Ry.
I think my gripe is who we lose to, not who we win against.
I suppose its significant that each time we beat a top four rival we also cost them 3 points and you could argue that the teams we are losing to are costing us less.
I just think that at this stage of the season we should see some heart s
 
City are taking 3rd. Bar the Manc derby, their run-in is a gift. 4th place is a straight fight between us and United.

They've got to go to Man City, Arsenal and Spurs. They're not taking 9 points from that. No fucking chance.

If we take 10 points from our remaining 4 games, we'll make top 4.

Discounting Arsenal?
 
klopp is the best manager we can get.

I agree. There are obvious issues and he needs to improve, but let's be realistic and honest, it's still pretty impressive that Juergen Klopp is our manager and so obviously loves being our manager

Who better would have joined us?

Yeah, he can't go on forever without winning a trophy or making a proper league title challenge, but that's true for almost all managers at clubs like ours.

There are expectations, even if sometimes they aren't always that realistic!
 
I agree. There are obvious issues and he needs to improve, but let's be realistic and honest, it's still pretty impressive that Juergen Klopp is our manager and so obviously loves being our manager

Who better would have joined us?

Yeah, he can't go on forever without winning a trophy or making a proper league title challenge, but that's true for almost all managers at clubs like ours.

There are expectations, even if sometimes they aren't always that realistic!

Yup.

We just have to hope his record of recruiting and improving players continues accordingly next season ... and I think with that, and HOPEFULLY a healthier squad, we'll see an even better team over the course of the season
 
Yup.

We just have to hope his record of recruiting and improving players continues accordingly next season ... and I think with that, and HOPEFULLY a healthier squad, we'll see an even better team over the course of the season

Nobody thinks Klopp is destined to succeed no matter what. Lots of top managers have one or two 'failures' on their CV

There is no real guarantee of success for anyone or any club

But he's surely got to be a better bet than almost anyone else out there, so some faith and patience is required

Not sure how long for though. But that's a question for the future, and one I hope we don't ever seriously have
 
Klopp's a genius to get us where we are but he's been badly let down by the failure to strengthen in either of the last 2 January windows. It cost us big time last year and maybe even worse this winter and I don't buy the fake news that he somehow didn't want anyone because they weren't available, that's bollocks.

Our best XI (Mignolet ; Clyne, Matip, Lovren, Milner ; Lallana, Henderson, Wijnaldum ; Mane, Firmino, Coutinho) virtually picks itself and if we had been able to field that side every week we would be battling for the title not limping into 4th or 5th place. But our back-up is woefully inadequate and we have been found out as a result.
 
Nobody thinks Klopp is destined to succeed no matter what. Lots of top managers have one or two 'failures' on their CV

There is no real guarantee of success for anyone or any club

But he's surely got to be a better bet than almost anyone else out there, so some faith and patience is required

Not sure how long for though. But that's a question for the future, and one I hope we don't ever seriously have

Here's the thing Mr. J - we improved on last year's showing already (and will probably finishing with 70+ points). If we improve again, we should be top 3 contenders ... That's all I want - continue to improve ...
 
Here's the thing Mr. J - we improved on last year's showing already (and will probably finishing with 70+ points). If we improve again, we should be top 3 contenders ... That's all I want - continue to improve ...

I know I know

I keep using the word 'realistic' and consistently refuse to adhere to it. It's all part of my huge charm and appeal though
 
I dont think ANYONE would be in favour of managerial change.
Youd have to be crazy to start from scratch given the marginal gain. And Mane and Wijnaldum have definately elevated us. Its clear we need more and its crystal clear we need it at the back.
Klopp will rightly be judged on this summers ability to see the fucking obvious.
 
Looking at Crystal Palace's fixtures list, it's just struck me that, since Allardyce took over, they're 3-for-3 against the top 6 clubs:
win 2-1 away vs Chelsea
win 3-0 home vs Arsenal
win 2-1 away vs Liverpool

Predictably, I guess, sandwiched between a couple of these games are a defeat to Southampton (3-1) and draw against Leicester.

Guess Fat Sam puts some extra juice in when he gets the chance to play these big games. Not a bad thing if he can keep that streak up:
Apr 26 - home vs Spurs
May 6 - away vs City
May 21 - away vs Man Utd
 
Looking at Crystal Palace's fixtures list, it's just struck me that, since Allardyce took over, they're 3-for-3 against the top 6 clubs:
win 2-1 away vs Chelsea
win 3-0 home vs Arsenal
win 2-1 away vs Liverpool

Predictably, I guess, sandwiched between a couple of these games are a defeat to Southampton (3-1) and draw against Leicester.

Guess Fat Sam puts some extra juice in when he gets the chance to play these big games. Not a bad thing if he can keep that streak up:
Apr 26 - home vs Spurs
May 6 - away vs City
May 21 - away vs Man Utd

Pretty sure he wont be too arsed about winning on 21st May.
 
No, he should be backed financially.
I agree. Let him spend and judge him next seasons end. He's not quite he miracle worker we hoped he would be, and yes of course he's showing flaws now he's in the prem, but I reckon he will sort things.
 
So Ryan, what's your thoughts on our defending under Klopp? You absolutely destroyed Rodgers for his inability to sort a defence

Before Ryan answers I just did some stats check on a few sites, and its quite interesting.
We concede the second fewest shots during a game, 8,2, with only City better at 8,1.
In Rodgers last season the average was 10,9.

But the other side of it is that we are number 3 for defensive errors with 17 and 9 leading to goals. 21% of the goals we've conceded have come after a defensive mistake.

Another intersting bit is that we're 16th in the League regarding duels won with 46%.
In that regards, some of that at least, we've conceded the second most goals in the League from set pieces.

So to draw any conclusion, I think our defending from open play has improved. But we still concede soft goals from set pieces and individual mistakes. To many aswell obviously.
Maybe a better balanced midfield will help but its quite clear that we are a few players short that can dominate more against lower teams in the League who are more about power and strength, were we usually struggle.

The two sides up top for duels won are Utd and Chelsea. And Mourinho has said you need at least 6 players over 6"0 in every game in the PL.
There might be something in that.
 
Why would they respect us? We coated them both.
Id have wanked into the palm of my hand and 'Miggs'd' it at Klopp.

Sakho is still our player though. Benteke did nothing wrong, besides scoring 2 goals obviously. The cunt.
 
For me expectations were far too high when he arrived and they're starting to hit realistic levels.

He's career has been impressive, no doubt. But if you look at his best success - Dortmund, they are an extremely well run club who haven't had any dramatic fall post Klopp and now they're manager is getting some hype.They have excellent scouts, a large stadium, a Director of Football who knows his shit and clearly a good backroom setup. Klopp was a cog in a highly effective machine. An important cog, but a cog nonetheless. There are times in which the setup can flatter a manager. It's similar to Southampton managers and previously Swansea managers before them. The notion a club lives or dies by the manager shouldn't be so engrained into our mindset and into English football.

At Liverpool we had nothing like the setup of Dortmund. We were still shipping out that cunt Rodgers appointed from Division 6. I hate to say it, but it's a new 'project' and it obviously deserves time.
 
Before Ryan answers I just did some stats check on a few sites, and its quite interesting.
We concede the second fewest shots during a game, 8,2, with only City better at 8,1.
In Rodgers last season the average was 10,9.

But the other side of it is that we are number 3 for defensive errors with 17 and 9 leading to goals. 21% of the goals we've conceded have come after a defensive mistake.

Another intersting bit is that we're 16th in the League regarding duels won with 46%.
In that regards, some of that at least, we've conceded the second most goals in the League from set pieces.

So to draw any conclusion, I think our defending from open play has improved. But we still concede soft goals from set pieces and individual mistakes. To many aswell obviously.
Maybe a better balanced midfield will help but its quite clear that we are a few players short that can dominate more against lower teams in the League who are more about power and strength, were we usually struggle.

The two sides up top for duels won are Utd and Chelsea. And Mourinho has said you need at least 6 players over 6"0 in every game in the PL.
There might be something in that.

If you want to go down the stats route, here's a few for you in terms of League goals conceded under Rodgers' til this season under Klopp.

12-13: 43
13-14: 50
14-15: 48
15-16: 50 (Part Rodgers and his own players but Klopp did have the vast majority of the season and a January transfer window)

So far this season we've conceded 42 League goals with 4 games still to play. That's with Klopp having 3 transfer windows to get his own players in and (in the main) week to week work on the training ground to address this obvious area of weakness.

Let's be honest we look as clueless and indept defensively under Klopp than we did under Rodgers.
 
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