Bournemouth - Post match

[binomial]

Didn't watch the game, but blaming the attack seems odd. We scored 3 goals. Any decent side wouldn't then concede 4

Everyone is to blame, Firmino did nothing all game. Origi weak pass gave away the 2nd, he then later lost in a challenge to wilshire which he bottled out of which led to the 3rd.

Lallana when he came on did fuck all, WIjnaldum just strolls around with no urgency all game.

The only 2 that come away with any credit is Mane and Can.

 

[Hansern]

The bench were crying out for a midfield option. Shame that we didnt include Stewart or Gruijc.
In hindsight we could have done a much more defensive sub when Mané went off. I e Stewart coming on and moving Wijnaldum further up the pitch. That would have made us much more safe defensively at least.
Ah well, everything is easier in hindsight...

 

[mark1975]

I don't get why people are getting worked up about Brendan making the points he's made all season. When we win or whatever else goes against him, people are quick to rub it in his face - Firmino scoring, Origi scoring, not conceeding etc.

Our top scorer has 7 goals, Milner is joint second highest goalscorer with 5 penalties, so for all our ability to spread goals around the team, there are times when a lack of a clinical striker goes against us. Just like there are times when our defense isn't bailed out by us taking pressure off them by keeping possession, maintaining the high press.

We have flaws that still linger and they're rightly being pointed out. It's not gloating, it's stating the fucking obvious.

 

[Tinto]

Defence starts with the attackers

Yes, that's true, but what can Mane, Origi, Firmino and the attackers do more to prevent Lovren from having a brain fart and giving Bournemouth a goal out of nothing, and more importantly a way back into the game.

Maybe they could create another goal to get back our two goal lead? Well, they did that.

Our defense is the main culprit for this particularly defeat.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Once you change a keeper you need to stick with him and work with him to improve. It shouldn't have happened, in my opinion. Karius should have been played in the reserves and in the cup games and made to prove he was ready. But as he's been made first choice, the decision has been made. If anyone experienced the horror of the Grobbelaar/James/Hooper/Friedel era, they'd know - nothing good comes from chopping and changing. Do you really think Mignolet would come back in and improve if someone says, 'Yeah, I still think you're not what I need, but your replacement isn't good, so come back in until he improves, or I sign someone else...' Do you think he'd shine? He wouldn't. He'd go backwards. If you've chosen your keeper, stick with him and accept the responsibility for what happens.

Agree 100%, word for word. Change was made, stick with the guy.

 

[dogboy]

I've noticed a.........yada

Discuss

I really dislike it when people stick a 'discuss' at the end of posts.

 

[dogboy]

It's mostly the same weak players that crumbled under Brendan Rodgers with a few additions. The core have proven they will crumble when under pressure. The fa cup semi final comes to mind.

Hello darkness my old friend.

 

[are we back?]

[QUOTE="LeTallecWiz, post: 1519456, member: 63"

• Mane seems to turn off in games ... Wasn't that what Soton fans complained about last year?

[/QUOTE]

Goal, assist and won ball back for the other goal?! i hope he 'turns off' in every game!

 

[Oncy]

It was a shit day.
We had it in the bag and threw it away.

Im not that fucked off because i still believe we will lose every week. I havnt lost my cynicism yet.

Hopefully just a bad day.

I really dont think Origi or Karius are good enough. We had big problems at both ends today.

 

[hmmmmm1]

This season for me is about getting 4th and getting more quality players in the summer. The Title is a pipe dream with this defence but top 4 is achievable, hopefully with a trophy.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Goal, assist and won ball back for the other goal?! i hope he 'turns off' in every game!

He wasn't in the game the whole time - compare today to how he was when the season started. Just seems tired/jaded whatever.

 

[manwithnoname]

Thank god for your suggestion that everyone should watch the Rocky movies.
The forum was lost before you arrived back.
We were denied all the good things in life.

They are good films though

Raz is quite the bell weather for quality entertainment

 

[manwithnoname]

If Klopp is saying what he really thinks, that the team "stopped playing football" and that's why we lost, then it's 100% his fault. He takes all the praise when the team "play football" and win, so when the reverse happens, he has to take the blame.

He 'won' this game (winning 3-1 after 75 mins), then threw it all away by doing nothing to counter-act the improvement in Bournemouth. His only change was Lallana on for Mane when we were 3-1 up. After that he just stood there ranting and gurning.

If he'd shut the game down at 3-1 everyone would be praising him and thinking he's got what it takes; great attacking play and great tactical changes when needed.

The reverse of that, which we saw today, is to realise Klopp is great at attacking and scoring but he seems just as clueless as Rodgers at changing the team to see the game out when needed.

As Ferguson, Mourinho and even The Tinkerman have proved, winning ugly is often the key difference in the title race. The fact Klopp did nothing to affect the mindset or team performance once Bournemouth got on top should be a worry for everyone.

Interesting post

 

[Ryan]

So the way the team flood back and position themselves along the 6 yard box is frustrating. Happened for three of their goals - they all charge back and line up in front of Karius. Firstly, it doesn't help the goalkeeper. And secondly, it's not smart. Sure, it's gut-running and up's your opta stats, but it's fucking pointless. Why did no one close down the shot for the 4th goal? How was he allowed to run from the sideline to the edge of the box and line up a shot like that when we had 11 players behind the ball? Why was Cook - a centre half - allowed to bring the ball down for the 3rd goal and shoot from a cross when we had 7 players in the box? People are giving Karius shit for not saving the 2nd one (a little harsh in my view), but we had 6 players in the box when that ball was spinning around to Bournemouth's two - how many more do you need??

I'm not concerned about the attitude - I'm concerned about the decision-making.

But shit like this happens when you go from finishing 8th every year to trying to win a title I guess. We ain't perfect - as many have gleefully pointed out. We have defensive frailties, we have an untested goalkeeper, and we have a kid playing up front. I know. I've been watching us for the last few years too.

Anyway, you don’t go from 8th to 1st or 2nd easily. Our best defender was out injured, and 3 of our best attackers were out injured. We’ve been unbeaten in what, 14 games? They hysteria in here is a little, well… hysterical.

 

[manwithnoname]

I don't get why people are getting worked up about Brendan making the points he's made all season. When we win or whatever else goes against him, people are quick to rub it in his face - Firmino scoring, Origi scoring, not conceeding etc.

Our top scorer has 7 goals, Milner is joint second highest goalscorer with 5 penalties, so for all our ability to spread goals around the team, there are times when a lack of a clinical striker goes against us. Just like there are times when our defense isn't bailed out by us taking pressure off them by keeping possession, maintaining the high press.

We have flaws that still linger and they're rightly being pointed out. It's not gloating, it's stating the fucking obvious.

It's really odd. But it's the same couple of snides 'liking''posts in the usual shithouse fashion.

I'm not saying anything controversial. It was a game in which all of the obvious failings in our side were horribly obvious.

Nice to be able to discuss it objectively though

It's not even easy enough to simply blame Karius though, which would be convenient, because as shite as he was, we did have other, obvious problems

 

[LeTallecWiz]

So the way the team flood back and position themselves along the 6 yard box is frustrating. Happened for three of their goals - they all charge back and line up in front of Karius. Firstly, it doesn't help the goalkeeper. And secondly, it's not smart. Sure, it's gut-running and up's your opta stats, but it's fucking pointless. Why did no one close down the shot for the 4th goal? How was he allowed to run from the sideline to the edge of the box and line up a shot like that when we had 11 players behind the ball? Why was Cook - a centre half - allowed to bring the ball down for the 3rd goal and shoot from a cross when we had 7 players in the box? People are giving Karius shit for not saving the 2nd one (a little harsh in my view), but we had 6 players in the box when that ball was spinning around to Bournemouth's two - how many more do you need??

I'm not concerned about the attitude - I'm concerned about the decision-making.

But shit like this happens when you go from finishing 8th every year to trying to win a title I guess. We ain't perfect - as many have gleefully pointed out. We have defensive frailties, we have an untested goalkeeper, and we have a kid playing up front. I know. I've been watching us for the last few years too.

Anyway, you don’t go from 8th to 1st or 2nd easily. Our best defender was out injured, and 3 of our best attackers were out injured. We’ve been unbeaten in what, 14 games? They hysteria in here is a little, well… hysterical.

Interesting post.

 

[Hansern]

So the way the team flood back and position themselves along the 6 yard box is frustrating. Happened for three of their goals - they all charge back and line up in front of Karius. Firstly, it doesn't help the goalkeeper. And secondly, it's not smart. Sure, it's gut-running and up's your opta stats, but it's fucking pointless. Why did no one close down the shot for the 4th goal? How was he allowed to run from the sideline to the edge of the box and line up a shot like that when we had 11 players behind the ball? Why was Cook - a centre half - allowed to bring the ball down for the 3rd goal and shoot from a cross when we had 7 players in the box? People are giving Karius shit for not saving the 2nd one (a little harsh in my view), but we had 6 players in the box when that ball was spinning around to Bournemouth's two - how many more do you need??

I'm not concerned about the attitude - I'm concerned about the decision-making.

But shit like this happens when you go from finishing 8th every year to trying to win a title I guess. We ain't perfect - as many have gleefully pointed out. We have defensive frailties, we have an untested goalkeeper, and we have a kid playing up front. I know. I've been watching us for the last few years too.

Anyway, you don’t go from 8th to 1st or 2nd easily. Our best defender was out injured, and 3 of our best attackers were out injured. We’ve been unbeaten in what, 14 games? They hysteria in here is a little, well… hysterical.

Good post. Clyne made an awful decision not to press and close down for the 4th goal.

Our defending were very similar to the Norwich match last season. We dropped very deep in our own box for the goals there aswell.

Matip is obviously as important as a defensive leader and organizer as he is a top quality defender.

 

[Hansern]

I don't get why people are getting worked up about Brendan making the points he's made all season. When we win or whatever else goes against him, people are quick to rub it in his face - Firmino scoring, Origi scoring, not conceeding etc.

Our top scorer has 7 goals, Milner is joint second highest goalscorer with 5 penalties, so for all our ability to spread goals around the team, there are times when a lack of a clinical striker goes against us. Just like there are times when our defense isn't bailed out by us taking pressure off them by keeping possession, maintaining the high press.

We have flaws that still linger and they're rightly being pointed out. It's not gloating, it's stating the fucking obvious.

I think its more the "look at me. look at me when I post and how correct and clever I am all the time as I said this might or might not happen" attitude.
Its fucking painful to read and even more so when we lose.

If you've made your point 1252 times. Everyone knows. Just move on.

Anyway, I cant be arsed. We lost so I'm in a shite mood.

 

[mark1975]

If Klopp is saying what he really thinks, that the team "stopped playing football" and that's why we lost, then it's 100% his fault. He takes all the praise when the team "play football" and win, so when the reverse happens, he has to take the blame.

He 'won' this game (winning 3-1 after 75 mins), then threw it all away by doing nothing to counter-act the improvement in Bournemouth. His only change was Lallana on for Mane when we were 3-1 up. After that he just stood there ranting and gurning.

If he'd shut the game down at 3-1 everyone would be praising him and thinking he's got what it takes; great attacking play and great tactical changes when needed.

The reverse of that, which we saw today, is to realise Klopp is great at attacking and scoring but he seems just as clueless as Rodgers at changing the team to see the game out when needed.

As Ferguson, Mourinho and even The Tinkerman have proved, winning ugly is often the key difference in the title race. The fact Klopp did nothing to affect the mindset or team performance once Bournemouth got on top should be a worry for everyone.

His "in game" decisions are his biggest flaw it seems. We went to Villareal last season and the game panned out differently to how we approached it. We were cautious because they were in great form, but as it turned out we kept tearing through them on the break and could have afforded to put Sturridge on and try to get a goal. As it happens we did them at home anyway, but it could have cost us, by not taking the initiative. There have been other games where subs have been needed earlier and it's not happened.

His half time team talks seem generally good, because there have been many games we're we've not really got going in the 1st half and he's not made any changes at half time, but the team have come out for the second half with purpose. But his decisiveness within games during play, need to improve sharpish. That's where we're generally not excelling and it's that sort of dithering that's costing us. I don't blame just Rodgers' players, it's a mindset of the team, not just our older players. We're better organised in many respects, but still don't have a clue how to control games when we're short on possession.

 

[Ryan]

His "in game" decisions are his biggest flaw it seems. We went to Villareal last season and the game panned out differently to how we approached it. We were cautious because they were in great form, but as it turned out we kept tearing through them on the break and could have afforded to put Sturridge on and try to get a goal. As it happens we did them at home anyway, but it could have cost us, by not taking the initiative. There have been other games where subs have been needed earlier and it's not happened.

His half time team talks seem generally good, because there have been many games we're we've not really got going in the 1st half and he's not made any changes at half time, but the team have come out for the second half with purpose. But his decisiveness within games during play, need to improve sharpish. That's where we're generally not excelling and it's that sort of dithering that's costing us. I don't blame just Rodgers' players, it's a mindset of the team, not just our older players. We're better organised in many respects, but still don't have a clue how to control games when we're short on possession.

Yeah I referenced this a month or so back when harking back to the Sevilla debacle. He watched that unfold in the 2nd half and did nothing.

It's been commented on before, but we have two ways of playing; gung-ho all out attack, or concede 3. There's nothing in the middle.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yeah I referenced this a month or so back when harking back to the Sevilla debacle. He watched that unfold in the 2nd half and did nothing.

It's been commented on before, but we have two ways of playing; gung-ho all out attack, or concede 3. There's nothing in the middle.

Which is something we all discussed in my brilliant thread about this very subject: being able to 'control' a game and play out a narrow win

It's so brilliant I can't remember what it was called, but it's in here somewhere

 

[keniget]

Yeah I referenced this a month or so back when harking back to the Sevilla debacle. He watched that unfold in the 2nd half and did nothing.

It's been commented on before, but we have two ways of playing; gung-ho all out attack, or concede 3. There's nothing in the middle.

That was the biggest issue today.

I can kinda understand and forgive dropping down a few gears when you're up 2-0 and cruising but when we went 3-1 up we should've been looking to shut the game down. Instead it was the headless chicken show we've been treated to so often in recent seasons.

It's one thing seeing it under Rodgers but Klopp is a big time manager and you'd like to think that it's a problem that can be addressed - at least to some extent - on the training pitch.

Anyways, in the context of the whole season we can't complain too much. We're a lot further ahead than I thought we'd be and all this has done is really expose the flaws we all knew were lurking under the surface (and to be honest at the start of the season I thought this sort of thing would be happening every other game).

Still a fair bit of work to be done on all fronts. It's just so damn easy to get caught up in the hype. Stupid game.

 

[JurgenKlopp]

So the way the team flood back and position themselves along the 6 yard box is frustrating. Happened for three of their goals - they all charge back and line up in front of Karius. Firstly, it doesn't help the goalkeeper. And secondly, it's not smart. Sure, it's gut-running and up's your opta stats, but it's fucking pointless. Why did no one close down the shot for the 4th goal? How was he allowed to run from the sideline to the edge of the box and line up a shot like that when we had 11 players behind the ball? Why was Cook - a centre half - allowed to bring the ball down for the 3rd goal and shoot from a cross when we had 7 players in the box? People are giving Karius shit for not saving the 2nd one (a little harsh in my view), but we had 6 players in the box when that ball was spinning around to Bournemouth's two - how many more do you need??

I'm not concerned about the attitude - I'm concerned about the decision-making.

But shit like this happens when you go from finishing 8th every year to trying to win a title I guess. We ain't perfect - as many have gleefully pointed out. We have defensive frailties, we have an untested goalkeeper, and we have a kid playing up front. I know. I've been watching us for the last few years too.

Anyway, you don’t go from 8th to 1st or 2nd easily. Our best defender was out injured, and 3 of our best attackers were out injured. We’ve been unbeaten in what, 14 games? They hysteria in here is a little, well… hysterical.

Pretty much spot on. We'all hopefully go on another. Long unbeaten run now and Chelsea aren't going to Lee their run going.

 

[Ryan]

Which is something we all discussed in my brilliant thread about this very subject: being able to 'control' a game and play out a narrow win

It's so brilliant I can't remember what it was called, but it's in here somewhere

Yeah I recall reminding you in that "brilliant" thread that I'd made those very points - albeit better than you - about 2 months prior.

It's not uncommon.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yeah I recall reminding you in that "brilliant" thread that I'd made those very points - albeit better than you - about 2 months prior.

It's not uncommon.

That nobody remembers your points?

Yeah, seems that way. Wish I could help

 

[gkmacca]

That nobody remembers your points?

Yeah, seems that way. Wish I could help

You're talking to someone - ostensibly an adult - who appears to have come to believe that he's a combination of Rinus Michels, Georgio Armani and The Fonz. It's a losing battle.

 

[Hansern]

Yeah I referenced this a month or so back when harking back to the Sevilla debacle. He watched that unfold in the 2nd half and did nothing.

It's been commented on before, but we have two ways of playing; gung-ho all out attack, or concede 3. There's nothing in the middle.

So we've gung-ho all out attacked for the last 15 games were we are unbeaten? Thats a very simplistic view mate. There have been several examples of us controlling the game and seeing out a lead this season.

The game today was very similar to a few last season and shows that there is still a lot of work to be done. Arent many defensive leaders in that side when you remove Matip.

 

[manwithnoname]

You're talking to someone - ostensibly an adult - who appears to have come to believe that he's a combination of Rinus Michels, Georgio Armani and The Fonz. It's a losing battle.

The Fonz bit is accurate.

Although in fairness, That was probably viewed as a cutting edge documentary of actual teen American life when it was shown in Northern Ireland, despite the fact that a middle-aged man with a quiff and a leather jacket was hanging around with school kids in a desperately weird 1970s simulacrum of the the 1950s

 

[leftpeg]

The Fonz bit is accurate.

Although in fairness, That was probably viewed as a cutting edge documentary of actual teen American life when it was shown in Northern Ireland, despite the fact that a middle-aged man with a quiff and a leather jacket was hanging around with school kids in a desperately weird 1970s simulacrum of the the 1950s

Yes but we were all happy and free those happy days.

 

[leftpeg]

Remember the 'first name on the teamsheet' thread a few months ago? I went for Matip...as did eight others. These are the lads who know their onions on here.