4th isn't going to happen

[peterhague]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47803.msg1439337#msg1439337 date=1323200009]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47803.msg1439315#msg1439315 date=1323196192]
I haven't got time to reply to that now Richey, but it was all either wrong, highly questionable, or in no way in contradiction of anything I've posted on the thread. Will expand on it later.
[/quote]

Benitez' first league campaign was poor, he didn't win the league cup (you mention it like it was an achievement - we didn't win it!), he won the CL which was fantastic, he signed Alonso and Luis which you clearly mentioned, but he also signed some shite players too, which of course you failed to mention (as you always do). Your selective bias on this subject is why most people end up giving Benitez so much stick in response.

You've given up on Kenny, in December, in his first FULL season back in charge (lets not count his last spell, given it was fucking DECADES ago). Yet you let Rafa live off the Champions League win for 5 whole years, glossed over his misgivings and shortcomings during that spell and still maintain that we were heading in the right direction up until the death because of some bollocks over how poorly he was mistreated with funds and how financially superior his competitors were. Arsenal won the league seasons before without the financial clout to compete with a United team who then were miles ahead of everyone.

It's pointless arguing the toss because we've been here a million times and your posturing of Rafa's ability is slightly unnerving.
[/quote]

1. Rafa's first league season, after 14 games, we had 23 points. That is exactly our position now - apart from a probably inferior GD.

2. i mentioned that he got to the LC final. that is a fact. i don't recall describing it directly or implicitly as an 'achievement'. i didn't imply that we won it.

3. you're talking utter fucking nonsense about the reason he gets stick being in response to me (and presumably others like me). absolute fucking horseshit. he was constantly abused and critiscised on here, and virtually the only time i ever posted about him was in exasperated defence. honestly, i've never disagreed with an assertion more than that.

4. so he signed poor players too. i never fail to admit that. so you're wrong, wrong, fucking wrong - again.

5. i haven't totally given up on Kenny. he might still do a good job. i just think Benitez would do a better one, and i'd like him to have it back ASAP. seems fair enough to me.

6. no, i don't let Rafa live off the CL win for 5 years. that is execrable nonsense - quite laughable, i'm afraid to say. i let Rafa live off his constant excellence over the first 5 years, and chiefly the superb effort we made in the league and CL in 2008/09. that's one - count it - one fucking year. i also give credit for the fucking miserable conditions he was forced to work under.

Cheers

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439391#msg1439391 date=1323204067]
Clearly it wasn't Benitez's choice given he was busy fucking up Inter at that point, or had he been sacked by then ? And Suarez was hardly unknown at that point - it's not like we'd never have found him if it wasn't for the greatest manager to ever walk the face of the earth.

All peterhague is short of crediting Benitez with is creating the world in 7 days. It's bollocks. Any manager who gets to double the wage bill of the club and spend 250m on transfers in five years is going to improve a club at some point during that time. He's not special. Not by any stretch.
[/quote]

well, we all know that your views on managers in general and benitez in particular are so fucking bizarre as to be completely beyond reason, so i'm not going to bother, you'll be relieved to know.

 

[peterhague]

deleted

 

[justdoit]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439086#msg1439086 date=1323174324]
I'm pretty sure sure people are forgetting the mire that Rafa and Hodgson left us in.

You can't turnover a squad as bad as we had in two transfer windows
[/quote]

The mire that Rafa left us in? We have the joint best defense in the league now and who are the defenders? Reina, GJ, Agger, Skrtel, Enrique and Lucas. All Rafa players except Enrique. We are tenth in goal scored and who are the attackers? Adam, Kuyt, Hendersen, Downing, Bellemy, Carrol and Suaraz. All kenny's players except Kuyt. Over 100M spent during the process. But still rafa is responsible for the lack of team's quality?

Rafa's squad in his last disastrous season got 63 points and 7th in the league. Houllier squad in his last season got 60 points and 4th in the league. Now of course rafa's squad was worst in the last 20 years and somehow Houllier's was CL winning quality. Any manager could win CL with Ged's team. Rafa can only thank Houllier for his generosity because Ged held back his team's full potential so that rafa could claim all the credits (same thing happened for his france team). What a generous man.


[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439397#msg1439397 date=1323204379]

Ironically I'm the Rafa Facts club.

I'll throw another one out there - The worst owners the club has ever seen actually subsidised Benitez's transfer business. True fact.
[/quote]

Sunday Mirror research reveals Liverpool’s net spending during the American duo’s reign was only £25.1m and that's before the sale of torres for 30M profit. Could we call it "self-sufficient" instead? But please don't let the facts stand in the way of your "Hate Campaign". Rafa's also responsible for global warming and world poverty anyway.

 

[peterhague]

brilliant post mate.

 

[King Binny]

Indeed. Can't believe you joined in 2007 and just posted 46 times. Come more mate, post more, justdoit! 😉

 

[RedZeppelin]

Rafa FC , never heard of them but they are taking lots of Liverpool fans it seems

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=justdoit link=topic=47803.msg1439517#msg1439517 date=1323236287]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439086#msg1439086 date=1323174324]
I'm pretty sure sure people are forgetting the mire that Rafa and Hodgson left us in.

You can't turnover a squad as bad as we had in two transfer windows
[/quote]

The mire that Rafa left us in? We have the joint best defense in the league now and who are the defenders? Reina, GJ, Agger, Skrtel, Enrique and Lucas. All Rafa players except Enrique. We are tenth in goal scored and who are the attackers? Adam, Kuyt, Hendersen, Downing, Bellemy, Carrol and Suaraz. All kenny's players except Kuyt. Over 100M spent during the process. But still rafa is responsible for the lack of team's quality?

Rafa's squad in his last disastrous season got 63 points and 7th in the league. Houllier squad in his last season got 60 points and 4th in the league. Now of course rafa's squad was worst in the last 20 years and somehow Houllier's was CL winning quality. Any manager could win CL with Ged's team. Rafa can only thank Houllier for his generosity because Ged held back his team's full potential so that rafa could claim all the credits (same thing happened for his france team). What a generous man.


[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439397#msg1439397 date=1323204379]

Ironically I'm the Rafa Facts club.

I'll throw another one out there - The worst owners the club has ever seen actually subsidised Benitez's transfer business. True fact.
[/quote]

Sunday Mirror research reveals Liverpool’s net spending during the American duo’s reign was only £25.1m and that's before the sale of Torres for 30M profit. Could we call it "self-sufficient" instead? But please don't let the facts stand in the way of your "Hate Campaign". Rafa's also responsible for global warming and world poverty anyway.
[/quote]



[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47803.msg1439517#msg1439517 date=1323236287]

brilliant post mate.

[/quote]


Ha, brilliant post indeed.

In fact his post has merit in that it's well written, concise and direct. What blights it and, as already pointed out by numerous posters ad infinitum, is your cataclysmic flaw seems to be catching. The desire to prove your own argument means you have to dismiss, ignore or simply change "facts".

Sure, lets say that Rafa left us with a fantastic squad, utterly brilliant. Perhaps you could explain to me then why that squad managed to limp over the line into 7th place? Tell me why it was that Rafa couldn't get that squad or team to play for him. Tell me why Kenny was able to take that team, after it had managed less points from 18 games than we've got now, to 6th...... still better than Rafa managed. Tell me why Kenny was able to do that despite losing a want away striker mid season and having to get someone on the last day of the window.

Go back and have a look at Rafa's history. He's never, in his entire coaching career, managed to build a title winning squad. The only one he's ever managed was a squad that he openly complained was not his.

His ability to set a team up for Europe is, IMO, peerless. The squad that GH left us was way better than many give credit for (though Rafa still couldn't match GH's league position) but it wasn't as good as many others. That Rafa got us to Istanbul is an enormous credit to him as it was two years later. He's at the top of the pile in European club competition IMO. But here's the point so listen closely:

[size=12pt]We're not talking about Europe![/size]

In this league he managed to win consistently only once in five years. What's more, that once in five years he decided to sabotage the season by getting rid of our only real back up striker mid season on nothing but stubborn pride. There's a reason why this apparently amazing manager hasn't been picked up by any team in any league let alone one of the big three leagues. Europe is great and in that competition Rafa is great but he only managed to qualify us there 60% of the time. That's not going to be good enough for any big team and the fact he seems to be your idea of a wet dream would say as much about you as anything else.

Just for "justdoit": What does the sale of Torres, 8 months after Rafa left, have to do with Rafa?

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=justdoit link=topic=47803.msg1439517#msg1439517 date=1323236287]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439086#msg1439086 date=1323174324]
I'm pretty sure sure people are forgetting the mire that Rafa and Hodgson left us in.

You can't turnover a squad as bad as we had in two transfer windows
[/quote]

The mire that Rafa left us in? We have the joint best defense in the league now and who are the defenders? Reina, GJ, Agger, Skrtel, Enrique and Lucas. All Rafa players except Enrique. We are tenth in goal scored and who are the attackers? Adam, Kuyt, Hendersen, Downing, Bellemy, Carrol and Suaraz. All kenny's players except Kuyt. Over 100M spent during the process. But still rafa is responsible for the lack of team's quality?

Rafa's squad in his last disastrous season got 63 points and 7th in the league. Houllier squad in his last season got 60 points and 4th in the league. Now of course rafa's squad was worst in the last 20 years and somehow Houllier's was CL winning quality. Any manager could win CL with Ged's team. Rafa can only thank Houllier for his generosity because Ged held back his team's full potential so that rafa could claim all the credits (same thing happened for his france team). What a generous man.


[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439397#msg1439397 date=1323204379]

Ironically I'm the Rafa Facts club.

I'll throw another one out there - The worst owners the club has ever seen actually subsidised Benitez's transfer business. True fact.
[/quote]

Sunday Mirror research reveals Liverpool’s net spending during the American duo’s reign was only £25.1m and that's before the sale of Torres for 30M profit. Could we call it "self-sufficient" instead? But please don't let the facts stand in the way of your "Hate Campaign". Rafa's also responsible for global warming and world poverty anyway.
[/quote]

Houllier left a CL team behind, one with a couple of additions was good enough to win the CL. Benitez left us in 7th place, i.e. midtable.

You can list off whatever names you want but the fact is we were a lot worse after Benitez left than after Houllier left.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47803.msg1439489#msg1439489 date=1323229879]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47803.msg1439337#msg1439337 date=1323200009]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47803.msg1439315#msg1439315 date=1323196192]
I haven't got time to reply to that now Richey, but it was all either wrong, highly questionable, or in no way in contradiction of anything I've posted on the thread. Will expand on it later.
[/quote]

Benitez' first league campaign was poor, he didn't win the league cup (you mention it like it was an achievement - we didn't win it!), he won the CL which was fantastic, he signed Alonso and Luis which you clearly mentioned, but he also signed some shite players too, which of course you failed to mention (as you always do). Your selective bias on this subject is why most people end up giving Benitez so much stick in response.

You've given up on Kenny, in December, in his first FULL season back in charge (lets not count his last spell, given it was fucking DECADES ago). Yet you let Rafa live off the Champions League win for 5 whole years, glossed over his misgivings and shortcomings during that spell and still maintain that we were heading in the right direction up until the death because of some bollocks over how poorly he was mistreated with funds and how financially superior his competitors were. Arsenal won the league seasons before without the financial clout to compete with a United team who then were miles ahead of everyone.

It's pointless arguing the toss because we've been here a million times and your posturing of Rafa's ability is slightly unnerving.
[/quote]

1. Rafa's first league season, after 14 games, we had 23 points. That is exactly our position now - apart from a probably inferior GD.

Right, so again, why give up on Kenny?

2. i mentioned that he got to the LC final. that is a fact. i don't recall describing it directly or implicitly as an 'achievement'. i didn't imply that we won it.

You mention it implicitly as something positive he did in his first season, perhaps 'achievement' is labouring the point, again, Kenny is in the semi's so is in touching distance of the same, so it begs the same question

3. you're talking utter fucking nonsense about the reason he gets stick being in response to me (and presumably others like me). absolute fucking horseshit. he was constantly abused and critiscised on here, and virtually the only time i ever posted about him was in exasperated defence. honestly, i've never disagreed with an assertion more than that.

No he didn't get 'continuously abused', he got shit off a minority and questioned throughout his career, because there were always apparent flaws there ready to be questioned. He took alot of shit in the end and he brought alot of it on himself, get over it.

4. so he signed poor players too. i never fail to admit that. so you're wrong, wrong, fucking wrong - again.

Do you bollocks. When posting about how fantastic he is, you rarely (if ever) address the issues, you usually go round the houses to generate some bollocks excuse for said failing (ie the guff you spouted for months about his magnificent net spend excusing his poor decisions in the transfer market). You might occasionally say when pulled up on it "who doesn't make poor signings", but you never show balance when knocking out your spiel to help your agenda.

5. i haven't totally given up on Kenny. he might still do a good job. i just think Benitez would do a better one, and i'd like him to have it back ASAP. seems fair enough to me.

And therein lies the point, Kenny's having a 'similar' first season without the benefit of CL football, he's also won stuff before which I implicitly tried not to use in his defence, but hey, what's good for the goose... Quelle surprise you want "one season" Kenny gone and "one successful domestic season in five" Rafa back. Do you not think that's a bit mental? Rafa isn't the guy. Kenny might not be either, but we've invested five years in the former, the latter has been here less than a year.

6. no, i don't let Rafa live off the CL win for 5 years. that is execrable nonsense - quite laughable, i'm afraid to say. i let Rafa live off his constant excellence over the first 5 years, and chiefly the superb effort we made in the league and CL in 2008/09. that's one - count it - one fucking year. i also give credit for the fucking miserable conditions he was forced to work under.

Bollocks, again. It's your first point of ammunition in this ridiculous tirade, EVERYTIME, it's tiresome, conceited bullshit. And I'll leave that laughable sentence about his "constant excellence over the first 5 years" as the crux of your flawed defence of Magnifico Rafa.
Cheers
Merry Xmas!
[/quote]

 

[peterhague]

it's scary how biased Rafa's critics are! quite unhinged!

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439536#msg1439536 date=1323242728]
[quote author=justdoit link=topic=47803.msg1439517#msg1439517 date=1323236287]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439086#msg1439086 date=1323174324]
I'm pretty sure sure people are forgetting the mire that Rafa and Hodgson left us in.

You can't turnover a squad as bad as we had in two transfer windows
[/quote]

The mire that Rafa left us in? We have the joint best defense in the league now and who are the defenders? Reina, GJ, Agger, Skrtel, Enrique and Lucas. All Rafa players except Enrique. We are tenth in goal scored and who are the attackers? Adam, Kuyt, Hendersen, Downing, Bellemy, Carrol and Suaraz. All kenny's players except Kuyt. Over 100M spent during the process. But still rafa is responsible for the lack of team's quality?

Rafa's squad in his last disastrous season got 63 points and 7th in the league. Houllier squad in his last season got 60 points and 4th in the league. Now of course rafa's squad was worst in the last 20 years and somehow Houllier's was CL winning quality. Any manager could win CL with Ged's team. Rafa can only thank Houllier for his generosity because Ged held back his team's full potential so that rafa could claim all the credits (same thing happened for his france team). What a generous man.


[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47803.msg1439397#msg1439397 date=1323204379]

Ironically I'm the Rafa Facts club.

I'll throw another one out there - The worst owners the club has ever seen actually subsidised Benitez's transfer business. True fact.
[/quote]

Sunday Mirror research reveals Liverpool’s net spending during the American duo’s reign was only £25.1m and that's before the sale of Torres for 30M profit. Could we call it "self-sufficient" instead? But please don't let the facts stand in the way of your "Hate Campaign". Rafa's also responsible for global warming and world poverty anyway.
[/quote]

Houllier left a CL team behind, one with a couple of additions was good enough to win the CL. Benitez left us in 7th place, i.e. midtable.

You can list off whatever names you want but the fact is we were a lot worse after Benitez left than after Houllier left.
[/quote]

OMG are you for real?

Ged H left us with a team that played the most negative boring football I have ever seen a Liverpool team play, it was fucking utterly painfull to watch, they limped to a 4th place finish and was on 60 points for the whole season 15 points behind the 3rd place team.

This is the squad he left which you think was better than what Rafa left?


1 Jerzy Dudek Goalkeeper
22 Chris Kirkland Goalkeeper
29 Patrice Luzi Goalkeeper
12 Paul Jones Goalkeeper
40 Paul Harrison Goalkeeper

2 Stephane Henchoz Defender
4 Sami Hyypia Defender
6 Markus Babbel Defender
18 John Arne Riise Defender
21 Djimi Traore Defender
23 Jamie Carragher Defender
25 Igor Biscan Defender
27 Gregory Vignal Defender
36 Jon Otsemobor Defender
3 Steve Finnan Defender

7 Harry Kewell Midfielder
11 Vladimir Smicer Midfielder
13 Danny Murphy Midfielder
15 Salif Diao Midfielder
16 Dietmar Hamann Midfielder
17 Steven Gerrard Midfielder
26 Richie Partridge Midfielder
32 John Welsh Midfielder
28 Bruno Cheyrou Midfielder
20 Anthony Le Tallec Midfielder
34 Darren Potter Midfielder

5 Milan Baros Striker
8 Emile Heskey Striker
9 El Hadji Diouf Striker
10 Michael Owen Striker
33 Neil Mellor Striker
24 Florent S.-Pongolle Striker

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

That squad would have won the Champions League no matter who was manager. Of course.

 

[peterhague]

he's just winding you up, Asbo. no-one could possibly believe what he posts on the subject.

 

[Asbo]

He hates Rafa so much he's fucking deluded, I will never let him forget that statement as long as I post on these forums ....

Everytime he comments on anything to do with football we can just say Geds Squad was better than Rafa's you said, thats what you know about football .....

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47803.msg1439570#msg1439570 date=1323251665]
He hates Rafa so much he's fucking deluded, I will never let him forget that statement as long as I post on these forums ....

Everytime he comments on anything to do with football we can just say Geds Squad was better than Rafa's you said, thats what you know about football .....
[/quote]

er, i'm sorry to tell you, but that is actually quite a popular opinion on here. not just Rosco, far from it.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47803.msg1439488#msg1439488 date=1323228999]

1. 2004-05 we had 23 points from 14 games. this season it's the same. i think that speaks for itself, considering that kenny took over 6 months earlier, has had one of the biggest budgets we've given a manager in 20 years, and was fortunate enough to receive £50m (50 fucking million!) for his wantaway striker whereas rafa got £8m and Antonio fucking Nunez (which of course doesn't stop the likes of you from actually blaming him for that signing).

2. Nunez is imo not submissible when looking at his signings. nothing more than a take it or leave it makeweight from the owen debacle. Josemi was a poor signing, but cheap, and we got the money back, so , really, big fucking deal. Carson was a good signing for a young and highly regarded english keeper. £750k he cost, and did well at times, gaining an england cap or 2, and looked likely for some time to fetch us a very good fee. eventually i think he went to west brom for £3.25m. i see that as good and sensible business, and a chance very much worth taking on young potential. compare and contrast to another recent chance we've taken on another young, highly regarded english player, again seen as the future regular for england in his position: £35m for Andy Carroll. i have my doubts as to whether that has been a chance worth taking. Pellegrino was a nightmare as a player, but again cost nothing and probably helped get us through the season as much needed cover for the PL games, in order to save Hyypia for the CL. you'll recall, after all, that your beloved Houllier had left us with only a well past it Henchoz in reserve (who, in case you're tempted to defend him, never again played at a comparable level). So no great harm done, really. Morientes, sure, he didn't work out, and Rafa should've been more aware that he wasn't going to be suited to the PL.

3. I never said or even implied that if Kenny manages to get us to the LC final (which he hasn't and probably won't) it wouldn't be a comparable achievement.
[/quote]

Please don't think that I am criticising Benitez on this thread mate, honestly I am not. If I was I would also be saying that Dalglish should go wouldn't I? I'm just saying that based on the performance in their first seasons Dalglish deserves more time the same as Benitez did.

In terms of signings I will take your point about Nunez, but I can't take the general point about making money or getting the money back on poor signings because in this kind of comparison its not especially fair. I do give credit of course for managers realising mistakes and selling players on quickly (I am less impressed when they do it year after year after year but that's another argument for another time!). However, using that same logic, if Dalglish moves on, say, Downing and Carroll at the end of the season for the same money or at a profit then surely you'd have to also acknowledge that these signings weren't the end of the World you are now making them out to be?

The problem seems to be that you are comparing Dalglish's first few months with Benitez's first few years, so you can justify the mistakes made by Benitez without giving Dalglish the time to correct his.

 

[Richey]

The team Houllier left was not obviously a potentially CL winning one, and great credit to Benitez for achieving that, but it was at least a squad that had qualified for the CL.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=47803.msg1439573#msg1439573 date=1323252376]
The team Houllier left was not obviously a potentially CL winning one, and great credit to Benitez for achieving that, but it was at least a squad that had qualified for the CL.
[/quote]

the following season when Rafa took over, we had the worst run of injuries in our footballing history, only 4 players managed to play more than 30 Premiere League games that season through injuries, which is still a 'record' to this day, yet we only finished on 2 points lower than the season before and got to 2 Cup Finals ......

 

[refugee]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=47803.msg1439573#msg1439573 date=1323252376]
The team Houllier left was not obviously a potentially CL winning one, and great credit to Benitez for achieving that, but it was at least a squad that had qualified for the CL.
[/quote]

I give 35% of the credit to the squad, 5% to Ged and 60% to Stevie who was amazing that season

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Firstly I think it's fair to say that i was at the time and still remain today one of Rafa's biggest fans.

Of course he had the 2 clowns to deal with and the money dried up just when it looked like we were on the verge of something special, but lets not forget that he contributed to his own sacking by having those 2-3 truly horrible transfer windows.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47803.msg1439534#msg1439534 date=1323241469]
Europe is great and in that competition Rafa is great but he only managed to qualify us there 60% of the time.
[/quote]

I may be missing something here, but he qualified us for Europe 100% of the time, and only missed out on the Champions League in his final season, which he got sacked for.

 

[HC]

Its perfectly natural for a liverpool fan to give the king more time over woy or rafa.

Purely because he IS the king. Nobody wants him to fail. Rafa,despite his achievements obviously didn't have that same respect earnt over a period of decades within the football club.

I was/am a massive Rafa fan and still think it was folly to get rid.

I wouldn't question rafas love for the club or the city one bit, much like with the king so then to me it comes down who achieves more.

Kenny has come into the premier league at its most competitive period ever. A similarly poor side to the one rafa inheritted can't bluff its way into europe anymore. So its not fair to draw parallels between the two,totally different circumstances.

Rafa was on the edge of greatness, I don't know if he has regrets but I know in my head if hed done a few things differently wed have a league title to look back on. We blew probably the easiest chance of a league title for some time.

Now its going to take time & money to get to that point. For me though kenny has to get us into the champions league this season.

If he does that,this season is a success, throw in the league cup and were laughing.

Why do people see henderson,adam and enrique as poor/just about adequate signings? I'm very happy with all three.

The carroll signing had mitigating circumstances, the only one I'm not happy with thus far is downing. Unfortunately unlike chelsea we didn't have the finances and infrastructure to paper over the cracks of ageing stars - so its always going to be a lengthy process - avb,rafa,wenger would have an equally tough job.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Gerry_A_Trick link=topic=47803.msg1439579#msg1439579 date=1323252868]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47803.msg1439534#msg1439534 date=1323241469]
Europe is great and in that competition Rafa is great but he only managed to qualify us there 60% of the time.
[/quote]

I may be missing something here, but he qualified us for Europe 100% of the time, and only missed out on the Champions League in his final season, which he got sacked for.
[/quote]

Your confusing bias with facts, the haters make shit up about great squads left to him, his wasting money and leaving us with a 1st division type squad ......

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47803.msg1439577#msg1439577 date=1323252751]
Firstly I think it's fair to say that i was at the time and still remain today one of Rafa's biggest fans.

Of course he had the 2 clowns to deal with and the money dried up just when it looked like we were on the verge of something special, but lets not forget that he contributed to his own sacking by having those 2-3 truly horrible transfer windows.
[/quote]

Its the transfer windows that lost me.

 

[Asbo]

Its only 1 person suggesting Kenny shouldn't be in charge isn't it?

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47803.msg1439582#msg1439582 date=1323253047]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47803.msg1439577#msg1439577 date=1323252751]
Firstly I think it's fair to say that i was at the time and still remain today one of Rafa's biggest fans.

Of course he had the 2 clowns to deal with and the money dried up just when it looked like we were on the verge of something special, but lets not forget that he contributed to his own sacking by having those 2-3 truly horrible transfer windows.
[/quote]

Its the transfer windows that lost me.
[/quote]

Those 2-3 transfer windows are the only transfer windows in the clubs history we sold more players than we brought in, or got more money from sales than purchases I mean, I very much doubt it was Rafa's choice not to spend ...

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47803.msg1439582#msg1439582 date=1323253047]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47803.msg1439577#msg1439577 date=1323252751]
Firstly I think it's fair to say that i was at the time and still remain today one of Rafa's biggest fans.

Of course he had the 2 clowns to deal with and the money dried up just when it looked like we were on the verge of something special, but lets not forget that he contributed to his own sacking by having those 2-3 truly horrible transfer windows.
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Its the transfer windows that lost me.
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I think he lost a lot people then mate.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47803.msg1439584#msg1439584 date=1323253210]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47803.msg1439582#msg1439582 date=1323253047]
[quote author=Kenny4PM link=topic=47803.msg1439577#msg1439577 date=1323252751]
Firstly I think it's fair to say that i was at the time and still remain today one of Rafa's biggest fans.

Of course he had the 2 clowns to deal with and the money dried up just when it looked like we were on the verge of something special, but lets not forget that he contributed to his own sacking by having those 2-3 truly horrible transfer windows.
[/quote]

Its the transfer windows that lost me.
[/quote]

Those 2-3 transfer windows are the only transfer windows in the clubs history we sold more players than we brought in, or got more money from sales than purchases I mean, I very much doubt it was Rafa's choice not to spend ...
[/quote]

Yeah it was a difficult time to be our manager no doubt about it, but then with the money that he did have he completely wasted it.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Asbo link=topic=47803.msg1439575#msg1439575 date=1323252610]


the following season when Rafa took over, we had the worst run of injuries in our footballing history, only 4 players managed to play more than 30 Premiere League games that season through injuries, which is still a 'record' to this day, yet we only finished on 2 points lower than the season before and got to 2 Cup Finals ......
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Yes, true. As I said I am not slagging off Benitez.

But its not as if Houllier's last season was plain sailing either. I think only 5 players got over 30 league games then. And how many games have we had Gerrard fit this season? 4? 5?