442

[TheBunnyman]

If we can play like that with two strikers against the best team in the league, then I think we should stick with the formation against everyone else - except perhaps in matches at the Emirates, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge etc. Everyone goes on about how Torres doesn't like playing with a partner, but he thrived today precisely because Kuyt gave him proper support and, consequently, he wasn't isolated. Lucas and Gerrard looked a very good CM combination too.

I'm not happy with Meireles and Maxi on the wings, but we also have the likes of Magic and Cole to come back soon. And in January we can buy some pace and skill for those positions.

So, personally I think we should continue with this positive approach - YES, ROY, EVEN AWAY FROM HOME!

442 ftw.

 

[RolandG]

Torres needs a partner to share the workload.

This is not the first time too. N'gog came on late in another game recently and we looked a different team.

I'm backing Bunny's call for 4-4-2

 

[Fabio]

can't disagree. Everyone went on about the man city game but ffs earlier that day all plans had to be thrown out of the window due to maschs antics. 442 can work, everyone just needs to acclimatise to it again

 

[Rosco]

Johnson at RW in a 4-4-2 would make us a much more dangerous side than we were today.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

-----------------------------------Pepe---------------------------------------


Kelly-----------------Carra--------------The Greek------------Konchesky


Johnson--------------Gerrard-----------Meireles----------------Cole


---------------------------Deadly-------------Torres----------------------



?

 

[TheBunnyman]

Yeah, something like that. Although it'd be a bit weird and unfair to drop Lucas after today's performance.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=42645.msg1213546#msg1213546 date=1289162505]
-----------------------------------Pepe---------------------------------------


Kelly-----------------Carra--------------The Greek------------Konchesky


Johnson--------------Gerrard-----------Meireles----------------Cole


---------------------------Deadly-------------Torres----------------------



?
[/quote]I'd play Meireles instead of cole and lucas in the middle.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=42645.msg1213551#msg1213551 date=1289162644]
Yeah, something like that. Although it'd be a bit weird and unfair to drop Lucas after today's performance.
[/quote]

yup. An issue i would have as well, is mereiles and maxi actually played quite deep today to give extra cover. Cole and Johnson might not be as forthcoming with the defensive aspect

 

[manwithnoname]

Fuck 4-4-2

Just get some better players and a better manager.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42645.msg1213556#msg1213556 date=1289162961]
Fuck 4-4-2

Just get some better players and a better manager.
[/quote]

it's also worth noting that the league winners of the past 6 seasons
chelsea
manu
manu
manu
chelsea
chelsea

have used 4-5-1

 

[Fabio]

come now neil, no-one could match chelseas spending power and had an incredible manager, and fergie just knows how to handle pressure. We've been playign 4-5-1 for years and only looked like winning the league once. It's the players you have and how they fit your formation, not the formation itself

 

[keniget]

I think Maxi has been quite decent in the last few games as well.

It's actually nice that we have a few minor dilemmas in terms of who to play at the moment.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42645.msg1213634#msg1213634 date=1289166276]
come now neil, no-one could match chelseas spending power and had an incredible manager, and fergie just knows how to handle pressure. We've been playign 4-5-1 for years and only looked like winning the league once. It's the players you have and how they fit your formation, not the formation itself
[/quote]

I just happen to think that 4-5-1 suits the players we have on our books. I think we should only move to 4-4-2 when we have a truly dominate holding midfielder and a striker good enough to play besides torres. unless then make the best of what we have right now.

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42645.msg1213638#msg1213638 date=1289166439]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42645.msg1213634#msg1213634 date=1289166276]
come now neil, no-one could match chelseas spending power and had an incredible manager, and fergie just knows how to handle pressure. We've been playign 4-5-1 for years and only looked like winning the league once. It's the players you have and how they fit your formation, not the formation itself
[/quote]

I just happen to think that 4-5-1 suits the players we have on our books. I think we should only move to 4-4-2 when we have a truly dominate holding midfielder and a striker good enough to play besides torres. unless then make the best of what we have right now.
[/quote]

The evidence of today would suggest otherwise.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42645.msg1213639#msg1213639 date=1289166517]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42645.msg1213638#msg1213638 date=1289166439]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42645.msg1213634#msg1213634 date=1289166276]
come now neil, no-one could match chelseas spending power and had an incredible manager, and fergie just knows how to handle pressure. We've been playign 4-5-1 for years and only looked like winning the league once. It's the players you have and how they fit your formation, not the formation itself
[/quote]

I just happen to think that 4-5-1 suits the players we have on our books. I think we should only move to 4-4-2 when we have a truly dominate holding midfielder and a striker good enough to play besides torres. unless then make the best of what we have right now.
[/quote]

The evidence of today would suggest otherwise.
[/quote]

that's one game and besides which kuyt dropped off so effectively became a 5th midfielder anyway.

 

[Rosco]

At the end of the game, after we'd done the damage with the 4-4-2.

4-5-1 is for gays.

 

[Fabio]

4-5-1 works better when we've got a solid defensive mid AND a solid ball playing midfielder as well as someone behind the striker. In Gerrard we have the ball playing midfielder and a defensive dynamo. in 442 we need him to partner someone with similar attributes. Mereiles (whilst not as good as gerrard) could be a perfect partner for him

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=42645.msg1213642#msg1213642 date=1289166703]
At the end of the game, after we'd done the damage with the 4-4-2.

4-5-1 is for gays.
[/quote]

ha ha

 

[Squiggles]

4-5-1 works for us when we have someone - Xabi Alonso - who can quickly and accurately dictate possession from deep and also quickly release Gerrard and Torres.

The idea of 4-5-1 was doomed when we signed Aquilani.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

United play 4-4-2 just as often as they play 4-5-1 don't they?

 

[Squiggles]

Yeah, more so I reckon.

 

[robinhood]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42645.msg1213641#msg1213641 date=1289166666]
kuyt dropped off so effectively became a 5th midfielder anyway.
[/quote]

This is quite true. To be anal, the formation hasn't changed, just the personnel.

CM is the best place for Gerrard. Kuyt has shown at times that he could be a good foil for another striker, so why not Torres.

Stick with it I say.

 

[dee]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=42645.msg1213529#msg1213529 date=1289161987]
If we can play like that with two strikers against the best team in the league, then I think we should stick with the formation against everyone else
[/quote]

The best team in the league without their best midfielders and their star striker with flu

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I have banged on and on about it, and yet again it proves its worth.
Other than the fact it helps Torres enormously , it is an easy system to play and everyone knows their role, and every other fuckers.
It is particularly hands when players are playing out of position.
Stick with it even when we get better players.
It's not rocket science

regards

 

[iseered]

This is ridiculous. Why would we have to commit to one or the other?
How about we, like, adopt the formation most likely to succeed given the players available and the opposition we face?

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=iseeredpeople link=topic=42645.msg1213712#msg1213712 date=1289180257]
This is ridiculous. Why would we have to commit to one or the other?
How about we, like, adopt the formation most likely to succeed given the players available and the opposition we face?
[/quote]

It's not ridiculous as such, it's just a safe option where everyone feels comfortable, certainly under the conditions that prevail,

regards

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=iseeredpeople link=topic=42645.msg1213712#msg1213712 date=1289180257]
This is ridiculous. Why would we have to commit to one or the other?
How about we, like, adopt the formation most likely to succeed given the players available and the opposition we face?
[/quote]

Sure, I'm not saying we should be dogmatic about it. But if it works against Chelsea, there's no reason why it shouldn't work against the likes of Stoke, West Ham and Wigan.

Playing with one striker CAN work, obviously: it's not necessarily a negative formation. But under Hodgson it hasn't worked at all really, and Torres has been horribly isolated. Setting the team up this way seemed to give us much more attacking impetus. It showed intent, and I think that's important. The crucial question is whether Roy dares to go with it away from home. We might actually win a few games on the road if he does.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42645.msg1213638#msg1213638 date=1289166439]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=42645.msg1213634#msg1213634 date=1289166276]
come now neil, no-one could match chelseas spending power and had an incredible manager, and fergie just knows how to handle pressure. We've been playign 4-5-1 for years and only looked like winning the league once. It's the players you have and how they fit your formation, not the formation itself
[/quote]

I just happen to think that 4-5-1 suits the players we have on our books. I think we should only move to 4-4-2 when we have a truly dominate holding midfielder and a striker good enough to play besides torres. unless then make the best of what we have right now.
[/quote]

I think people are over analysing it. When we play Kuyt up there he doesn't exactly stay up top, he'll drop and give us that extra number in midfield and his workrate and industry is up there anyway with any midfielder.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=42645.msg1213763#msg1213763 date=1289204204]
[quote author=iseeredpeople link=topic=42645.msg1213712#msg1213712 date=1289180257]
This is ridiculous. Why would we have to commit to one or the other?
How about we, like, adopt the formation most likely to succeed given the players available and the opposition we face?
[/quote]

Sure, I'm not saying we should be dogmatic about it. But if it works against Chelsea, there's no reason why it shouldn't work against the likes of Stoke, West Ham and Wigan.

Playing with one striker CAN work, obviously: it's not necessarily a negative formation. But under Hodgson it hasn't worked at all really, and Torres has been horribly isolated. Setting the team up this way seemed to give us much more attacking impetus. It showed intent, and I think that's important. The crucial question is whether Roy dares to go with it away from home. We might actually win a few games on the road if he does.

[/quote]

I think it's worth noting, with regards to Lucas, that the midfield two seem to have the same instruction, to play more like box to box midfielders rather than one sitting and one moving forward, they defend together and attack together and it gives us alot more when going forward.

Watching that Lucas video in the other thread, it's clear he's passing it forward ALOT more than he usually does and with good intent too, maybe someone's had a word in his ear and tried to alter his game, because as a holding player he tends to get isolated too and looks vulnerable under pressure, it might only be a minor tactical tweak, but it worked wonders yesterday.

 

[Akakabooto]

It worked very well yesterday although I think it was more like a 4-5-1 most of the time especially in the 2nd half. Anyway simply saying we play 4-4-2 doesn't really tell much, does it? Yesterday if it was anyone else in our squad than Kuyt playing there it wouldn't have worked. When defending he is such a massive help to our midfield and against Chelski to me he was the MOM and the piece that made the system work.

So basically what I'm trying to say is that against the better teams and especially away I don't think playing two strikers will work most of the time if one of them isn't Dirk Kuyt.