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Will the real Mo Salah please stand up?

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I don’t think Mo’s issue is physical. Even now, when his form seems low, the guy has more running ability and agility than 90% of our squad. Mental fatigue? Possibly. The pressure to deliver now that we all know what he earns? Possibly, although less likely. It’s been alluded to that a lot of his lack of goals is down to how he’s being played, and the fact that opponents know how to nullify his threat to some degree. I think there’s a lot to that.
 
I think with mo we're playing a different way now. He's getting the ball on the touchline more, rather than near the box. Klopps insistence to make Trent cut inside is stifling how Salah plays. Because of this, his confidence has dropped as well
 
Fabio said:
I think with mo we're playing a different way now. He's getting the ball on the touchline more, rather than near the box. Klopps insistence to make Trent cut inside is stifling how Salah plays. Because of this, his confidence has dropped as well
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We're trying to get him to isolate the full back; this is how he played in his first season with us. Find a central threat to occupy the centre backs and get Salah one on one with the full back. I can see the point of it, but it's not working, and I suspect that's due to a number of factors. Our pre-season didn't seem to be long enough/work well enough. Too many players got injured and we didn't seem to have long enough to embed the tweaked structure*.

I hope that with the fixtures postponed we can spend the time training. I know there was a thread on what changes could be made before Wolves but all these changes need to be trained into the team and I suspect all we'd have time for is recovery before the weekend. Hopefully we'll get more time back now. Thiago being part of things again is fundamental, and should fix Fabinho's form. Fabinho has been poor this season but he's compensating for a LCM - whoever is in that role - just not good enough and a RCM in Elliott who, whilst putting a shift in, I still have some doubts about positionally. The left side, with Robbo, Diaz and the LCM aren't linking up correctly, and neither are the right side. Salah, I think, is probably where he should be positionally, but Trent is wiped out and Elliott is trying to make everything work on his own. Anyway, I guess my point is that time should sort these issues to an extent and we might get more of it if the fixtures are postponed.

*We seem to tweak the structure every summer to try and get an advantage. It frustrates me that we have to do this, because I feel like the only reason we do is because we can't evolve the side through signings. Although there are a number of factors, I still think what we're seeing is at least partly the result of chronic underinvestment in the squad.
 
The Trent inverted RCM is a completely unnecessary development, I assume it was conceived to get around the low block but it has ruined the balance.
 
rubans said:
The Trent inverted RCM is a completely unnecessary development, I assume it was conceived to get around the low block but it has ruined the balance.
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It's ruined the balance because when we do these things without proper investment we require very specific roles from people within that structure and not everyone can do it. If we had a Thiago that was fit, weren't reliant on Elliott at RCM (had someone like Bellingham there instead), were able to bench players who have clearly not recovered from last season, I have enough faith in the tactical acumen of Klopp that the new development would work. But it needs investment in the squad. We're semi-reinventing the side each season but continuing with the same profile of players throughout the squad.
 
Frogfish said:
Hang on ... it's not rocket science but it's taken them 5 years to suss him out?!
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Year 1...Salah's first season...Salah(32) Mane(10) Bobby(15)
Year 2... Salah(22), Mane(22) and Bobby(12) were scoring for fun. You try and mark on out the game the other two gets you
Year 3... Salah(19), Mane(18), Bobby(9) Pretty much the same problem for defenders... In between Covid19 hits Mane pretty bad
Year 4... We bring in Jota... Salah (22)Mane(11) Jota(9) Bobby(9) again pretty much the same problem for defenders
Year 5...Salah(23)Mane(16) Jota(15) Bobby(5)
League goal only
This season...No Mane. Yes we have Diaz, and as good as he is He is no Mane...
We have Nunez.Did him self no favours getting the red card, and set him self back weeks blending in with the team
Elliott & Carvalho Great editions, and ones for future, and again No Manes
Jota been Injured, No Mane replacement but a goal scorer none the less
Bobby, been out of from, Just working his way back in

Salah... Been poor since the since the AFCON evident in the fact that he was not on the score sheet in the 9-0 defeat of Bournemouth.
And although we no seem to carry more of a goal threat from other areas of the pitch the combination of the form of Firmino, Diaz& Nunez bedding in as allowed defenders to fix more attention on Mo Salah and nullifying him

Year 6...This season thus far...Diaz (4) Bobby (3) Salah (3) Nunez (2)(even after missing three match due to a red card TAA(2) Carvalho(2)
They may have know how to defend against him for some time, but now with the lost of Mane, dip in form of Firmino, and injury to Jota Defenders can pay more attention to Salah
 
Donavan Ried said:
Year 1...Salah's first season...Salah(32) Mane(10) Bobby(15)
Year 2... Salah(22), Mane(22) and Bobby(12) were scoring for fun. You try and mark on out the game the other two gets you
Year 3... Salah(19), Mane(18), Bobby(9) Pretty much the same problem for defenders... In between Covid19 hits Mane pretty bad
Year 4... We bring in Jota... Salah (22)Mane(11) Jota(9) Bobby(9) again pretty much the same problem for defenders
Year 5...Salah(23)Mane(16) Jota(15) Bobby(5)
League goal only
This season...No Mane. Yes we have Diaz, and as good as he is He is no Mane...
We have Nunez.Did him self no favours getting the red card, and set him self back weeks blending in with the team
Elliott & Carvalho Great editions, and ones for future, and again No Manes
Jota been Injured, No Mane replacement but a goal scorer none the less
Bobby, been out of from, Just working his way back in

Salah... Been poor since the since the AFCON evident in the fact that he was not on the score sheet in the 9-0 defeat of Bournemouth.
And although we no seem to carry more of a goal threat from other areas of the pitch the combination of the form of Firmino, Diaz& Nunez bedding in as allowed defenders to fix more attention on Mo Salah and nullifying him

Year 6...This season thus far...Diaz (4) Bobby (3) Salah (3) Nunez (2)(even after missing three match due to a red card TAA(2) Carvalho(2)
They may have know how to defend against him for some time, but now with the lost of Mane, dip in form of Firmino, and injury to Jota Defenders can pay more attention to Salah
Click to expand...
Donovan (paraphrasing) : "Salah has been sussed out (me: it's taken them 5 yrs?) and that's why he's not scoring".

But hang on - almost everything else you've just said above are some of the clues as to why he's not scoring, and actually have nothing at all to do with other teams - thereby totally negating your claim that Mo's been 'sussed out'. Sigh, we really do appreciate the effort you've gone to, to disprove your own claims.
 
Hansern said:
Ah yes, I forgot that he cant score a goal without the same top speed as he had when he was 24.
My mistake. Its only pace that gives you goals. Just look at Adama Traore and all those goals his pace gives him.

On a serious note its a marginal drop off and he's 30. Not 50.
Kyle Walker is still one of the fastest players in the league and he's 32.

And to finish this discussion off, Salah was clocked in by Opta last season to have the second fastest sprint in the league.
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I agree that Salah will come good again with better support (when Trent sorts his head out) but Kyle Walker comparison isn't good. He's fallen off a cliff and is currently City's worst player.
 
I guess the big question is how does Klopp "reinvent" a team that's both mentally damaged/fatigued call it what you want from losing the Prem on the final day to subsequently losing the CL final and physically spent from being together for the last 4-5 seasons with the high intensity they put in every day in training and every time they take to the pitch?

The fact we is we could be a lot worst off this season....we had the mentality to draw level with Palace despite being a man down for 40 minutes.....we had the mentality to push for a last min winner against Newcastle.
 
Woland said:
I agree that Salah will come good again with better support (when Trent sorts his head out) but Kyle Walker comparison isn't good. He's fallen off a cliff and is currently City's worst player.
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Walker isnt very good but I was talking about his fitness and pace. He's still one of the fastest players in the league at 32. I wasnt talking about his ability.
 
Why do we need to use any other player as a comparison.

Salah is slower. He has never had unreal dribbling technique. Taking just a little speed away matters immensely. You can see it when he plays. You can also see it in how he is defended. Fullbacks are right on him. They aren't as scared.
 
Frogfish said:
Donovan (paraphrasing) : "Salah has been sussed out (me: it's taken them 5 yrs?) and that's why he's not scoring".

But hang on - almost everything else you've just said above are some of the clues as to why he's not scoring, and actually have nothing at all to do with other teams - thereby totally negating your claim that Mo's been 'sussed out'. Sigh, we really do appreciate the effort you've gone to, to disprove your own claims.
Click to expand...

It's the old you say Tom-Mate-O I say Tomato... You see it as him not being sussed out, while I see as he has... Guess we have to disagree there... But Hey!... It's all good
 
Farkmaster said:
Why do we need to use any other player as a comparison.

Salah is slower. He has never had unreal dribbling technique. Taking just a little speed away matters immensely. You can see it when he plays. You can also see it in how he is defended. Fullbacks are right on him. They aren't as scared.
Click to expand...

I actually agree most of what you are saying, and a lot of our problems with midfield are actually because they ain't getting the support that Mane provided them with a slight injection of pace and aggression. However, the Salah issue - in terms of what we are seeing from him is 100% what you are saying, but with one massive difference - he is hardly in that goal scoring area anymore where he can take the ball and defenders need to think twice otherwise penalty.
 
rurikbird said:


Interesting... Does seem that Elliott and Mo are playing in the same area too much, however these maps don't support the theory that Salah is playing wider than last season.
Click to expand...

Really really interesting ! Thanks for posting.

Not a comment on tactics but just on the pass reception maps themselves :

1. Mane & Diaz look near identical - which doesn't follow the script some have said that Mane was more central (though he obviously was later in the season - which would account for the very slight extension of his pass reception map ).
2. With Fabs being less mobile it's clear that Elliott's positioning is more like a winger and that offers us less protection and a lack of numbers in midfield. Compare to Hendo's from last season.
3. Robbo is, overall, playing substantially deeper than last season.
4. Both VvD and Gomez have been even more advanced than last season. Surely not good but may account for Robbo being deeper overall?
5. Ali is clearly pacing across his line a lot more than last season.
 
All things come to an end and as good as servant as Salah has been, is it time we sell him at the end of this season? Even in current form we should still get £60m. Then you have Thiago who as much of a genius as he is, he will be 32 in April and is made of hobnobs.
I think we RW, RB and two MF in the summer, and you can most of them in Jan paying few mill each (other than the RB). Then in the summer spend £200m on a MF to replace Thiago and a Winger to replace Salah.
 
Salah is going nowhere, we signed him to a fuck off deal precisely so other clubs would fuck off. Who is going to offer him £350k a week at 31 years of age? Possibly PSG if Messi leave as expected, but nobody else.

We'd be better off working out how to get the best out of him because he isn't leaving, and our new tactic of making him guard the corner flag isn't all that productive.
 


Barnes:
[article]WHAT DO YOU THINK OF MO SALAH’S FORM SO FAR THIS SEASON?

Salah has to get used to playing as a centre-forward, when he was playing with Firmino who is a withdrawn centre-forward, Mo Salah scores goals by making runs for out to in into a vacated space where there’s no centre-forward. Now they’ve got Nunez who’s a centre-forward sided for the opposition, so the way that Mo is going to play has got to be different. He can’t play the way he did with Firmino, so he has to get used to that.

It’s a transitional period in the way that they’re changing the way they play slightly so everybody has to get used to it. Mo will be fine, he’s finding his feet in terms of playing in a new system and a new style but that might mean he won’t score as many goals. Where you’ve got a new centre-forward like Nunez who’s got to be the main goal-scorer, he should be, it means Mo will score less goals. He will still be effective but he will score less goals because of the way he plays.[/article]
 
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